Free Gary McKinnon

Damn Brit · 03-25-2009, 08:57 PM

Rather than being tried he should be offered a job protecting the security of the systems he hacked into IMO.

lithos · 03-25-2009, 09:37 PM

Grey Hatting? That would be like the Pentagon admitting error.

They don't rank too highly on that.

pingflood · 03-26-2009, 05:02 AM

Free Kevin!

SGT · 03-26-2009, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by benjikan

He is NOT a killer, terrorist or Rapist. He admits to his errors and wishes to be judged in a more humane society. One that does not kill their own...

You say "he admits to his errors", you mean crimes don't you??

My guess is that you are a supporter of Roman Polanski as well.

benjikan · 03-26-2009, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by SGT

You say "he admits to his errors", you mean crimes don't you??

My guess is that you are a supporter of Roman Polanski as well.

No, absolutely NOT

lithos · 03-26-2009, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by pingflood

Free Kevin!

Free Sarah Tonin!

Blue · 03-26-2009, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Really, I don't think the fundamental question that needs to be asked after someone breaks into "dozens of military computers" as well as NASA is what country he will be tried in.
The question that comes to my mind is who the hell is running computer security for the Pentagon?
Really, this sounds like Larry, Moe and Curly are in charge of US military security.

I agree that security at those computers were in question and time a hack occurs. However, you apparently fail to realize that some Autistic and Asperger's people are brilliant in certain areas. There are some with Ph.D.s in engineering. My step son is going on 20. He has been with me since he was 2 and a half and was diagnosed with Autism right after I met him. He has a driver's license and is in college.

However, my overall point is he could have got out of this thing with 6 months in a minimum security facility and 6 months probation. Therefore the outcry is misplaced on this. Hell, they may have offered the guy a job after the 6 months.

Blue · 03-26-2009, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

Rather than being tried he should be offered a job protecting the security of the systems he hacked into IMO.

They may very well have done that after the 6 months in a low security prison. It wouldn't be the first time.

Wheatfield · 03-26-2009, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by Blue

I agree that security at those computers were in question and time a hack occurs. However, you apparently fail to realize that some Autistic and Asperger's people are brilliant in certain areas. There are some with Ph.D.s in engineering. My step son is going on 20. He has been with me since he was 2 and a half and was diagnosed with Autism right after I met him. He has a driver's license and is in college.

However, my overall point is he could have got out of this thing with 6 months in a minimum security facility and 6 months probation. Therefore the outcry is misplaced on this. Hell, they may have offered the guy a job after the 6 months.

I'm not failing to realize anything, I've worked with enough autistic people to know how absolutely brilliant they can be within certain parameters.
I've also worked with enough of them to realize that their reality doesn't necessarily conform to the reality of the non afflicted.
The fellow in question here may well have thought the entire thing was a lark, and no more serious than jaywalking.

My point still is, though, why is security at Pentagon computers so lax that a person can break into dozens of them? I would think there should be more of an outcry regarding the security apparently being run by a group of Barbary Apes.

I also find it odd that Britain would consider extraditing one of it's citizens to a country that not only doesn't have a reciprocal treaty in place, but also a history of ignoring due process, using torture as a means of coercion, and not granting foreign nationals protections under it's legal system.

Blue · 03-26-2009, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

. . .

My point still is, though, why is security at Pentagon computers so lax that a person can break into dozens of them? I would think there should be more of an outcry regarding the security apparently being run by a group of Barbary Apes.

. . .

You are implying that hacking those computers was easy. Are you assuming that because an Asperger's guy did it, it must be easy?

Then how the devil do we deal with Bill Gates?

Diagnosing Bill Gates - TIME

Some Government agencies actually have people that get paid to try to hack them, and another group that gets paid to figure out what they are doing to stop them. It is sort of like the coyote and sheep dog cartoon on Bugs Bunny. I had a couple of college buddies that did just this thing at ORNL back in 1992 for over a semester. However, this incident was in 2001-02 so it is possible a result of some of the Clinton military cuts.

Wheatfield · 03-26-2009, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Blue

You are implying that hacking those computers was easy. Are you assuming that because an Asperger's guy did it, it must be easy?

Umm, no.
You really seem to be having comprehension problems with my posts.
Do I need to use smaller words?

benjikan · 03-26-2009, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I'm not failing to realize anything, I've worked with enough autistic people to know how absolutely brilliant they can be within certain parameters.
I've also worked with enough of them to realize that their reality doesn't necessarily conform to the reality of the non afflicted.
The fellow in question here may well have thought the entire thing was a lark, and no more serious than jaywalking.

My point still is, though, why is security at Pentagon computers so lax that a person can break into dozens of them? I would think there should be more of an outcry regarding the security apparently being run by a group of Barbary Apes.

I also find it odd that Britain would consider extraditing one of it's citizens to a country that not only doesn't have a reciprocal treaty in place, but also a history of ignoring due process, using torture as a means of coercion, and not granting foreign nationals protections under it's legal system.

Hear, Hear!!!

Blue · 03-26-2009, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Umm, no.
You really seem to be having comprehension problems with my posts.
Do I need to use smaller words?

Why don't you diagram your sentences. You certainly implied that for an Asperger's individual to have hacked the computers, they must have been manned by Moe, Larry and Curly or the Barbary Apes.

It is pretty typical for you though when you get on the back side of a debate to resort to insults.

I'll be the first on on the block to back up people that fall under the PDD. I have advocated for nearly 2 decades to see that autistic and asperger's children get the opportunity to attend regular classes in elementary and high school given their abilities.

I don't think the deal for 6 months and 6months probation was unreasonable in this situation.

Red · 03-26-2009, 11:22 AM

All attacks against the US should be legal under international law because America is bad.

cpopham · 03-26-2009, 01:43 PM

There's one key point nobody has mentioned, and it was the basis his extradition was fought on.

Plea Bargaining (in the form Americans know it) is considered abuse of the legal process in the UK, and most other countries. Therefore, his prosecution, for a crime he was arrested for under ENGLISH law should surely be by english rules? No? It's not like they wouldn't be able to successfully prosecute him in an English court...

On the other hand, if he is guilty (and that is for a court to decide), he should face the appropriate penalty (again for a court to decide), according to the actual law he was alleged to have broken...

The whole extradition thing just seems rather unnecessary, and a little suspect.

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03-25-2009, 08:57 PM	#16
Damn Brit Guest	Rather than being tried he should be offered a job protecting the security of the systems he hacked into IMO.

03-25-2009, 09:37 PM	#17
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Grey Hatting? That would be like the Pentagon admitting error. They don't rank too highly on that.

03-26-2009, 05:02 AM	#18
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Free Kevin!

03-26-2009, 05:13 AM	#19
SGT Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 47	Originally posted by benjikan He is NOT a killer, terrorist or Rapist. He admits to his errors and wishes to be judged in a more humane society. One that does not kill their own... You say "he admits to his errors", you mean crimes don't you?? My guess is that you are a supporter of Roman Polanski as well.

03-26-2009, 05:20 AM	#20
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308 Original Poster	Originally posted by SGT You say "he admits to his errors", you mean crimes don't you?? My guess is that you are a supporter of Roman Polanski as well. No, absolutely NOT

03-26-2009, 05:24 AM	#21
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Originally posted by pingflood Free Kevin! Free Sarah Tonin!

03-26-2009, 05:34 AM	#22
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Wheatfield Really, I don't think the fundamental question that needs to be asked after someone breaks into "dozens of military computers" as well as NASA is what country he will be tried in. The question that comes to my mind is who the hell is running computer security for the Pentagon? Really, this sounds like Larry, Moe and Curly are in charge of US military security. I agree that security at those computers were in question and time a hack occurs. However, you apparently fail to realize that some Autistic and Asperger's people are brilliant in certain areas. There are some with Ph.D.s in engineering. My step son is going on 20. He has been with me since he was 2 and a half and was diagnosed with Autism right after I met him. He has a driver's license and is in college. However, my overall point is he could have got out of this thing with 6 months in a minimum security facility and 6 months probation. Therefore the outcry is misplaced on this. Hell, they may have offered the guy a job after the 6 months.

03-26-2009, 05:35 AM	#23
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Damn Brit Rather than being tried he should be offered a job protecting the security of the systems he hacked into IMO. They may very well have done that after the 6 months in a low security prison. It wouldn't be the first time.

03-26-2009, 08:39 AM	#24
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by Blue I agree that security at those computers were in question and time a hack occurs. However, you apparently fail to realize that some Autistic and Asperger's people are brilliant in certain areas. There are some with Ph.D.s in engineering. My step son is going on 20. He has been with me since he was 2 and a half and was diagnosed with Autism right after I met him. He has a driver's license and is in college. However, my overall point is he could have got out of this thing with 6 months in a minimum security facility and 6 months probation. Therefore the outcry is misplaced on this. Hell, they may have offered the guy a job after the 6 months. I'm not failing to realize anything, I've worked with enough autistic people to know how absolutely brilliant they can be within certain parameters. I've also worked with enough of them to realize that their reality doesn't necessarily conform to the reality of the non afflicted. The fellow in question here may well have thought the entire thing was a lark, and no more serious than jaywalking. My point still is, though, why is security at Pentagon computers so lax that a person can break into dozens of them? I would think there should be more of an outcry regarding the security apparently being run by a group of Barbary Apes. I also find it odd that Britain would consider extraditing one of it's citizens to a country that not only doesn't have a reciprocal treaty in place, but also a history of ignoring due process, using torture as a means of coercion, and not granting foreign nationals protections under it's legal system.

03-26-2009, 09:15 AM	#25
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Wheatfield . . . My point still is, though, why is security at Pentagon computers so lax that a person can break into dozens of them? I would think there should be more of an outcry regarding the security apparently being run by a group of Barbary Apes. . . . You are implying that hacking those computers was easy. Are you assuming that because an Asperger's guy did it, it must be easy? Then how the devil do we deal with Bill Gates? Diagnosing Bill Gates - TIME Some Government agencies actually have people that get paid to try to hack them, and another group that gets paid to figure out what they are doing to stop them. It is sort of like the coyote and sheep dog cartoon on Bugs Bunny. I had a couple of college buddies that did just this thing at ORNL back in 1992 for over a semester. However, this incident was in 2001-02 so it is possible a result of some of the Clinton military cuts.

03-26-2009, 09:20 AM	#26
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by Blue You are implying that hacking those computers was easy. Are you assuming that because an Asperger's guy did it, it must be easy? Umm, no. You really seem to be having comprehension problems with my posts. Do I need to use smaller words?

03-26-2009, 09:24 AM	#27
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308 Original Poster	Originally posted by Wheatfield I'm not failing to realize anything, I've worked with enough autistic people to know how absolutely brilliant they can be within certain parameters. I've also worked with enough of them to realize that their reality doesn't necessarily conform to the reality of the non afflicted. The fellow in question here may well have thought the entire thing was a lark, and no more serious than jaywalking. My point still is, though, why is security at Pentagon computers so lax that a person can break into dozens of them? I would think there should be more of an outcry regarding the security apparently being run by a group of Barbary Apes. I also find it odd that Britain would consider extraditing one of it's citizens to a country that not only doesn't have a reciprocal treaty in place, but also a history of ignoring due process, using torture as a means of coercion, and not granting foreign nationals protections under it's legal system. Hear, Hear!!!

03-26-2009, 09:46 AM	#28
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Wheatfield Umm, no. You really seem to be having comprehension problems with my posts. Do I need to use smaller words? Why don't you diagram your sentences. You certainly implied that for an Asperger's individual to have hacked the computers, they must have been manned by Moe, Larry and Curly or the Barbary Apes. It is pretty typical for you though when you get on the back side of a debate to resort to insults. I'll be the first on on the block to back up people that fall under the PDD. I have advocated for nearly 2 decades to see that autistic and asperger's children get the opportunity to attend regular classes in elementary and high school given their abilities. I don't think the deal for 6 months and 6months probation was unreasonable in this situation.

03-26-2009, 11:22 AM	#29
Red Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Suwanee, GA USA Posts: 153	All attacks against the US should be legal under international law because America is bad.

03-26-2009, 01:43 PM	#30
cpopham Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Auckland Posts: 553	There's one key point nobody has mentioned, and it was the basis his extradition was fought on. Plea Bargaining (in the form Americans know it) is considered abuse of the legal process in the UK, and most other countries. Therefore, his prosecution, for a crime he was arrested for under ENGLISH law should surely be by english rules? No? It's not like they wouldn't be able to successfully prosecute him in an English court... On the other hand, if he is guilty (and that is for a court to decide), he should face the appropriate penalty (again for a court to decide), according to the actual law he was alleged to have broken... The whole extradition thing just seems rather unnecessary, and a little suspect.