Black Cars

graphicgr8s · 03-26-2009, 05:26 PM

I already know the answer. How can Californ-eye-ay even propose such a stupid ban?

The Ban on Black The Foundry
http://wardsauto.com/commentary/cool_paints_ugly_090324/
http://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-infocus/18564-california-may-ban-black-cars.html

Maybe we should paint asphalt white.
How far will Californians let the government dictate everything in their lives?

HGMonaro · 03-26-2009, 05:41 PM

it's the glass that lets heat into the car!

graphicgr8s · 03-26-2009, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by HGMonaro

it's the glass that lets heat into the car!

Not in california

Blue · 03-26-2009, 08:46 PM

Why not just ban air conditioning?

Edit: Pentax was on to something with the White K-m.

graphicgr8s · 03-26-2009, 09:02 PM

Since CO2 causes Global Warming ban breathing in CA. Well exhaling anyway.

slomojoe · 03-27-2009, 07:02 AM

Funny, every time some new regulation is proposed, the usual crowd rises up. Remember all the resistance to seat belts and other safety devices? The cries that 40-miles-a-gallon gas cars would be impossibly costly to make (let alone hybrid or electric ones), and even if they weren't, that no one would buy them?

Those crazy Californians tree-huggers passed the 1990 ZEV mandate to have a small, but significant fraction of purely electric vehicles on the roads (10% by now, if I am not mistaken). Car manufacturers complained about the "excessive regulatory burden", mocked the environmetalists as delusional, and forced the mandate repealed. Had they gone along and rolled up their sleeves, or had the politicians had more balls, we'd be at least 10 years ahead in electric car technology, and in much better shape with regard to our energy dependency goals. I suspect US car makers themselves would be in much better financial shape too, since at the time they were actually ahead of Japanese and European companies in developing electric engines and batteries.

Now, of course, Chevy rolls out the Volt with great fanfare, a decade too late (especially to save their ass). They would be selling them like hotcakes by now.

Anyway, at least I would expect photographers here to know that high IR-reflectivity does not imply the exclusion of black (high visible spectrum absorbtion) as a color. Here's a semi-technical article that describes IR reflective pigments, including black ones.

My bet (if anyone wants to take it) is that if there truly are residual problems with black IR-reflective pigments for car paints, by the time this new regulation rolls in they will be solved by some company, who's going to make a ton of money out of their patents. And no one will know the difference.

graphicgr8s · 03-27-2009, 07:09 AM

We all worry about the environment and global warming and the rest of the crap they (whoever "they" are) and try and come up with alternative fuels, eliminating black paint, etc. ad nauseum. Right now it's hybrids, electrics, photovoltaics, whatever. But the thing is you are transferring one type of pollution to another. The toxic chemicals used to make each of these things must be disposed of. The spent fuel cells for nuclear must be taken care of. Right now we have no room for them. In the long run we aren't really cleaning anything up. We are just putting it into another form.
And what are the EPA requirements on Yucca? 1 million years or something like that? How can that be safe?

Last edited by graphicgr8s; 03-27-2009 at 07:18 AM.

slomojoe · 03-27-2009, 07:22 AM

By the way, one upside of high IR reflectivity paints could well be that car pics taken by IR photography will look really cool and "glowing". Think about it!

Gooshin · 03-27-2009, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by HGMonaro

it's the glass that lets heat into the car!

this is why they make laws, so that people who dont know what the hell they are talking about just do as told.

a law banning dark cars in cities where heat is a problem is okay in my books.

not only that, black is lame, its about time people bought something original, like baby blue, pink, or lime green.

graphicgr8s · 03-27-2009, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by Gooshin

this is why they make laws, so that people who dont know what the hell they are talking about just do as told.

a law banning dark cars in cities where heat is a problem is okay in my books.

not only that, black is lame, its about time people bought something original, like baby blue, pink, or lime green.

Since concrete is such a heat sink maybe would should also ban any kind of concrete buildings or asphalt roads. And maybe Kalifornia should also go back to horse and carriage. At least the "exhaust" from the horse has another use.

They just want to control your lives totally.

There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity.

Gooshin · 03-27-2009, 07:58 AM

hey, its their own damn fault for building such a congested city in that part of the world, poor urban planning.

and atleast concrete is gray :P

and i'll take concrete roads over asphalt anyday, atleast they dont give you tar fumes when the sun gets up.

Gooshin · 03-27-2009, 08:10 AM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

They just want to control your lives totally.

There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity.

yeah okay...

you know we just recently passed a law that requires the purchase of winter tires during the winter seasons, people got pretty pissed about that, but its a damn good law.

bout 3-4 years ago we got the "blue/green/black" bin system, a bin for recyclable garbage, a bin for food waste, and then regular junk, and they are taxing the home owners on that, crazy, i know!

PEOPLE, in general, dont give a flying **** about their surroundings, being 100% pro environment is really hard work, and most are either too ignorant, lazy, or both.

the government exists for a reason

you dont want a government telling you what to do? go start your own country

cant start your own country, go into office, make your own laws

too lazy to go into office, write to your mp

too lazy to write to your mp, then shut up, sit down, and find a way to adjust to the world you live in.

you were never free, free choice as an absolute is an illusion, there are always constraints, the question is how good are YOU at adapting.

Blue · 03-27-2009, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Gooshin

yeah okay...

the government exists for a reason

you dont want a government telling you what to do? go start your own country

cant start your own country, go into office, make your own laws

You really need to study American History, especially the causes of the American Revolution, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, Constitution etc. Then you will realize why this comment is out of place when commenting on the situation in the U.S.

Blue · 03-27-2009, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Gooshin

this is why they make laws, so that people who dont know what the hell they are talking about just do as told.

You are assuming that the people making the laws know what the hell they are doing.

séamuis · 03-27-2009, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Blue

You really need to study American History, especially the causes of the American Revolution, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, Constitution etc. Then you will realize why this comment is out of place when commenting on the situation in the U.S.

I was thinking the same thing myself.

03-26-2009, 05:26 PM	#1
graphicgr8s Guest	Black Cars I already know the answer. How can Californ-eye-ay even propose such a stupid ban? The Ban on Black The Foundry http://wardsauto.com/commentary/cool_paints_ugly_090324/ http://www.crazyengineers.com/forum/ce-infocus/18564-california-may-ban-black-cars.html Maybe we should paint asphalt white. How far will Californians let the government dictate everything in their lives?

03-27-2009, 07:58 AM	#11
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	hey, its their own damn fault for building such a congested city in that part of the world, poor urban planning. and atleast concrete is gray :P and i'll take concrete roads over asphalt anyday, atleast they dont give you tar fumes when the sun gets up. Last edited by Gooshin; 03-27-2009 at 08:05 AM.

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03-26-2009, 05:41 PM	#2
HGMonaro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melb. Aust Posts: 840	it's the glass that lets heat into the car!

03-26-2009, 05:45 PM	#3
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by HGMonaro it's the glass that lets heat into the car! Not in california

03-26-2009, 08:46 PM	#4
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Why not just ban air conditioning? Edit: Pentax was on to something with the White K-m.

03-26-2009, 09:02 PM	#5
graphicgr8s Guest	Since CO2 causes Global Warming ban breathing in CA. Well exhaling anyway.

03-27-2009, 07:02 AM	#6
slomojoe Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 788	Funny, every time some new regulation is proposed, the usual crowd rises up. Remember all the resistance to seat belts and other safety devices? The cries that 40-miles-a-gallon gas cars would be impossibly costly to make (let alone hybrid or electric ones), and even if they weren't, that no one would buy them? Those crazy Californians tree-huggers passed the 1990 ZEV mandate to have a small, but significant fraction of purely electric vehicles on the roads (10% by now, if I am not mistaken). Car manufacturers complained about the "excessive regulatory burden", mocked the environmetalists as delusional, and forced the mandate repealed. Had they gone along and rolled up their sleeves, or had the politicians had more balls, we'd be at least 10 years ahead in electric car technology, and in much better shape with regard to our energy dependency goals. I suspect US car makers themselves would be in much better financial shape too, since at the time they were actually ahead of Japanese and European companies in developing electric engines and batteries. Now, of course, Chevy rolls out the Volt with great fanfare, a decade too late (especially to save their ass). They would be selling them like hotcakes by now. Anyway, at least I would expect photographers here to know that high IR-reflectivity does not imply the exclusion of black (high visible spectrum absorbtion) as a color. Here's a semi-technical article that describes IR reflective pigments, including black ones. My bet (if anyone wants to take it) is that if there truly are residual problems with black IR-reflective pigments for car paints, by the time this new regulation rolls in they will be solved by some company, who's going to make a ton of money out of their patents. And no one will know the difference.

03-27-2009, 07:09 AM	#7
graphicgr8s Guest	We all worry about the environment and global warming and the rest of the crap they (whoever "they" are) and try and come up with alternative fuels, eliminating black paint, etc. ad nauseum. Right now it's hybrids, electrics, photovoltaics, whatever. But the thing is you are transferring one type of pollution to another. The toxic chemicals used to make each of these things must be disposed of. The spent fuel cells for nuclear must be taken care of. Right now we have no room for them. In the long run we aren't really cleaning anything up. We are just putting it into another form. And what are the EPA requirements on Yucca? 1 million years or something like that? How can that be safe? Last edited by graphicgr8s; 03-27-2009 at 07:18 AM.

03-27-2009, 07:22 AM	#8
slomojoe Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 788	By the way, one upside of high IR reflectivity paints could well be that car pics taken by IR photography will look really cool and "glowing". Think about it!

03-27-2009, 07:48 AM	#9
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	Originally posted by HGMonaro it's the glass that lets heat into the car! this is why they make laws, so that people who dont know what the hell they are talking about just do as told. a law banning dark cars in cities where heat is a problem is okay in my books. not only that, black is lame, its about time people bought something original, like baby blue, pink, or lime green.

03-27-2009, 07:55 AM	#10
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by Gooshin this is why they make laws, so that people who dont know what the hell they are talking about just do as told. a law banning dark cars in cities where heat is a problem is okay in my books. not only that, black is lame, its about time people bought something original, like baby blue, pink, or lime green. Since concrete is such a heat sink maybe would should also ban any kind of concrete buildings or asphalt roads. And maybe Kalifornia should also go back to horse and carriage. At least the "exhaust" from the horse has another use. They just want to control your lives totally. There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity.

03-27-2009, 08:10 AM	#12
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	Originally posted by graphicgr8s They just want to control your lives totally. There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. yeah okay... you know we just recently passed a law that requires the purchase of winter tires during the winter seasons, people got pretty pissed about that, but its a damn good law. bout 3-4 years ago we got the "blue/green/black" bin system, a bin for recyclable garbage, a bin for food waste, and then regular junk, and they are taxing the home owners on that, crazy, i know! PEOPLE, in general, dont give a flying **** about their surroundings, being 100% pro environment is really hard work, and most are either too ignorant, lazy, or both. the government exists for a reason you dont want a government telling you what to do? go start your own country cant start your own country, go into office, make your own laws too lazy to go into office, write to your mp too lazy to write to your mp, then shut up, sit down, and find a way to adjust to the world you live in. you were never free, free choice as an absolute is an illusion, there are always constraints, the question is how good are YOU at adapting.

03-27-2009, 08:15 AM	#13
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Gooshin yeah okay... the government exists for a reason you dont want a government telling you what to do? go start your own country cant start your own country, go into office, make your own laws You really need to study American History, especially the causes of the American Revolution, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, Constitution etc. Then you will realize why this comment is out of place when commenting on the situation in the U.S.

03-27-2009, 08:16 AM	#14
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Gooshin this is why they make laws, so that people who dont know what the hell they are talking about just do as told. You are assuming that the people making the laws know what the hell they are doing.

03-27-2009, 08:19 AM	#15
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by Blue You really need to study American History, especially the causes of the American Revolution, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, Constitution etc. Then you will realize why this comment is out of place when commenting on the situation in the U.S. I was thinking the same thing myself.