You are absolutely right of course...

But, the flip side is that we should rethink our support when that government takes decisions that are so fundamentally against our most basic principles.

Pat

In Oakland we have a democratically elected mayor who has been worse than useless, he hasn't done a thing worth mentioning. It has reached the point now where those around him have announced that he is now to be 'left out of the loop'. It doesn't look like he will step down, so now it seems this city that is having serious problems is going to be 'adrift' until the next election.
This is a major fault with democracy as we know it IMO.

[Blue]

Thanks FLGulfer, looks like the Germans invent the stuff and the CIA finds other uses for it.
LSD is obviously an anomaly.

Don't leave out Ken Kesey and his paricipation in the CIA Project MKULTRA in 1959.

[Blue]

In Oakland we have a democratically elected mayor who has been worse than useless, he hasn't done a thing worth mentioning. It has reached the point now where those around him have announced that he is now to be 'left out of the loop'. It doesn't look like he will step down, so now it seems this city that is having serious problems is going to be 'adrift' until the next election.
This is a major fault with democracy as we know it IMO.

Would you rather have a Count or Duke?

Nope, that was LSD...

The professor who invented it was working with the CIA who were testing it as an interrogation drug.

This inventor was mysteriously "suicided" when he "fell" out of a window in new york city just after he started to have second thoughts about the CIA experiments.


As for Viagra, there is no secret there... it made the news here and everywhere (just google news it, it's all over)

A soldiers I know who is there now also confirmed that tribal leaders there are often payed off in cash, goods or medecine (including viagra) for information. Apparently the viagra is VERY popular.

Pat

May want to check your info on LSD. Here is wikopedia's version

LSD, also known as acid, was first synthesized on November 16, 1938[1] by Swiss chemist Dr. Albert Hofmann at the Sandoz Laboratories in Basel, Switzerland, as part of a large research program searching for medically useful ergot alkaloid derivatives. Ergot is a fungus that, by infecting cereals grains used for making rye breads, causes ergotism, among the symptoms of which are hallucinations. After Dr. Hofmann succeeded in synthesizing ergobasine (which became the preeminent uterotonic), he began experiments with other molecules based around the central lysergic acid component shared by ergot alkaloids. Lysergic acid diethylamide, the 25th lysergic acid derivative he synthesised (hence the name LSD-25) was developed initially as a probable analeptic, a circulatory and respiratory stimulant, based on its structural similarity to another known analeptic, nikethamide (nicotinic acid diethylamide). However, no extraordinary benefits of the compound were identified during animal tests (though laboratory notes briefly mention that the animals became "restless" under its effects), and its study was discontinued.[2] Its psychedelic properties were unknown until 5 years later, when Hofmann, acting on what he has called a "peculiar presentiment," returned to work on the chemical.[2] While re-synthesizing LSD-25 for further study, Hofmann became dizzy and was forced to stop work. In his journal, Hofmann wrote that after becoming dizzy he proceeded home and was affected by a "remarkable restlessness, combined with a slight dizziness". Hofmann stated that as he lay in his bed he sank into a pleasant "intoxicated like condition" which was characterized by an extremely stimulated imagination. He stated that he was in a dreamlike state, and with his eyes closed he could see uninterrupted streams of "fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense, kaleidoscopic play of colors." The condition lasted about two hours after which it faded away.[3] Hofmann had attributed the psychoactive effects he experienced to accidentally absorbing a tiny amount of LSD-25 into his skin. Three days later he would take a much larger dose in order to test its effects further, and this day would later be referred to as the "Bicycle Day".[4]

Don't leave out Ken Kesey and his paricipation in the CIA Project MKULTRA in 1959.

I hadn't forgotten that, I wish I had been around then.

Would you rather have a Count or Duke?

What's that got to do with democracy?


I'll answer your question anyway; whichever one has the most humanity.

[Wheatfield]

You are absolutely right of course...

But, the flip side is that we should rethink our support when that government takes decisions that are so fundamentally against our most basic principles.

Pat

There is no doubt that we are being taken advantage of at this point. Our commitment to "free the Afghani people" will keep us on the ground in that country, while the government that we have chosen to support moves towards the Muslim version of Right Wing (Sharia law).

I don't really think our leaders have a fundamental grasp of how tightly entwined politics and religion is in the Muslim world, and how they can never seperate church from state, since they are one and the same.

We are being given a choice of walking away and letting the country fall into a Moslem stone age run by the Taliban, or staying there and having the country fall into a well armed Moslem stone age run by a group who is not fundamentally different from the Taliban.

[Wheatfield]

In Oakland we have a democratically elected mayor who has been worse than useless, he hasn't done a thing worth mentioning. It has reached the point now where those around him have announced that he is now to be 'left out of the loop'. It doesn't look like he will step down, so now it seems this city that is having serious problems is going to be 'adrift' until the next election.
This is a major fault with democracy as we know it IMO.

One of the cornerstones of democracy is assassination.

[ve2vfd]

May want to check your info on LSD. Here is wikopedia's version

DOH!

No more history channel for me!

Pat

DOH!

No more history channel for me!

Pat

Might just be your memory of the History Channel. Have you checked your RAM and hard drive lately to see if there is any short term memory loss?

Still want to know what's wrong with this law:

They say it removes the right of women to refuse their husbands sex, unless they are ill.

[KrisK10D]

You are absolutely right of course...

But, the flip side is that we should rethink our support when that government takes decisions that are so fundamentally against our most basic principles.

Pat

This isn't about democracy, it's about the rights of an individual. I don't think Human Rights have anything to do with 'allowing Democratically elected Governments to Govern'. These morons wouldn't even be in power if not for Coalition forces deposing the Taliban and allowing free and fair elections! Why would anyone, let alone NATO, spend 7 years and billions of dollars on this shit hole region only to have the so called 'elected' Government go back to their caveman ways?

Personally, I vote to irradiate the entire region and let Pakistan and Iran fight over the spoils!

[Wheatfield]

This isn't about democracy, it's about the rights of an individual. I don't think Human Rights have anything to do with 'allowing Democratically elected Governments to Govern'. These morons wouldn't even be in power if not for Coalition forces deposing the Taliban and allowing free and fair elections! Why would anyone, let alone NATO, spend 7 years and billions of dollars on this shit hole region only to have the so called 'elected' Government go back to their caveman ways?

Perhaps, perhaps not. The history of this particular region is a lot deeper than the Taliban and Coalition forces fighting to see who will rule. Go back 30 or so years and the Taliban and the Coalition were on, more or less, the same side against Communist Russia.

It is interesting that this law started getting bounced around in the Afghani parliament soon after the Coalition started handing out Viagra to the old warlords.....
We keep sticking our well meaning noses into things we both have no understanding of and have no business sticking our noses into, and then we wonder why we have a lot of nosebleeds.

Personally, I vote to irradiate the entire region and let Pakistan and Iran fight over the spoils!

That kind of puts your human rights argument to rest.

[KrisK10D]

That kind of puts your human rights argument to rest.

Can't say that the human race couldn't do with a good cull. 21st century and humans still think it's OK to beat, rape and burn alive women... bash people cause they're gay... blow up buildings cause someone elses ideals are different from your own.

I hate people. Planet Earth needs more dinosaurs!

Can't say that the human race couldn't do with a good cull. 21st century and humans still think it's OK to beat, rape and burn alive women... bash people cause they're gay... blow up buildings cause someone elses ideals are different from your own.

I hate people. Planet Earth needs more dinosaurs!

Hear! Hear!, well said.

[MrEspie]

Can't say that the human race couldn't do with a good cull. 21st century and humans still think it's OK to beat, rape and burn alive women... bash people cause they're gay... blow up buildings cause someone elses ideals are different from your own.

I hate people. Planet Earth needs more dinosaurs!

And more cowbell!