[jmbradd]

What I take from this is people don't like to follow rules in general. I live in portland, a biking haven. I both drive and bike and follow all the rules of the road. I've noticed people from each group breaking the rules. For most of us who do walk in both worlds as driver and cyclist, we see this as an issue with human behavior. Others though who feel superior, see it as the other group in error.

Bottom line is we all have to follow the rules and will get hurt if we don't. Be it driving a prius, hummer, schwin or nike people like to think they're better than someone else. For some its the only reason they get up in the morning.

Don't feel better or worse than anyone else... our current problems (if you agree they exist) were caused a long time ago.


ps. As an environmentalist and open minded individual, I can't help but look at hybrid cars as light cigarettes. Its still smoking just less bad... I'll drive an environmentally friendly car when they make one, until then i'll limit driving as best as i can.

pps. I eat meat, take showers and wear normal clothes so please check the "hippie" comments at the door.

ps. As an environmentalist and open minded individual, I can't help but look at hybrid cars as light cigarettes. Its still smoking just less bad... I'll drive an environmentally friendly car when they make one, until then i'll limit driving as best as i can.

Well said.

[RichardS]

I can't vouch for Prius drivers here in Buffalo, but I must make a parallel on the signalling bit with BMW drivers here. I don't know what it is, but if you own a BMW here, it's like you think that you don't need to use your turn signal, ever. I don't think I've seen a single one use their turn signals and I see many of them daily.

It's not so much BMW drivers here in Oz. It's more likely to happen in the country with drivers wearing Akubras (think 10 gallon hats). Akubra Hats If you come up behind a car on a country road and the driver's wearing a hat, do not overtake if they slow down. They're probably just about to do a right turn across your path. "I always turn here. This is where I live. Everyone knows that."

Richard.

[RichardS]

What I take from this is people don't like to follow rules in general. I live in portland, a biking haven. I both drive and bike and follow all the rules of the road. I've noticed people from each group breaking the rules. For most of us who do walk in both worlds as driver and cyclist, we see this as an issue with human behavior. Others though who feel superior, see it as the other group in error.

I'm a driver and a cyclist and I see faults in both groups. The consequences of a mistake by a driver are potentially more significant than a mistake by a cyclist. The cyclist's mistake usually doesn't kill other people.

[We drive on the left here, so translate if you drive on the other side.]

Whenever I hear an anti-cyclist rant on the radio while I'm driving, I see if I can detect a driver breaking the rules before the rant ends. I nearly always succeed I rarely see cyclists breaking the rules. One of the problems seems to be that many (most?) drivers don't know the rules that apply to cyclists. I hear people complaining that cyclists ride on the road (they are not allowed to ride on the footpath with some under 12 year old exceptions), that they ride two-abreast (legal), that they don't indicate before turning left (legal).

My favourite place for spotting drivers breaking the law is any intersection where there's a right turn into a multi-lane road. The law says that you must turn into the right-hand lane of the new road and indicate left before you change to the centre or left lane. Something like 90% of drivers get it wrong.

The other one is pedestrian crossings. Every time (100%) drivers break the law and ignore the amber. Red is the cue to accellerate. About once a week (I'm also a walker) I'm confronted by a driver who doesn't think that the red light applies to their make of car (or to them), even when people are on the crossing.

But, back to the original topic: it's not just Pious drivers who feel that they are above the rest of us because they have made a sacrifice, and who believe that the laws don't apply to them. There are too many to enumerate, but one recent example caused some amusement. Earth hour. Turn off your lights and use candles instead. Hey!

(Some) Camry drivers are my pet hate. They don't seem to be capable of driving in a straight line. It could be that the steering is so vague that they wander all over the road and hope that they proceed in the general direction of where they want to go. Something like a drunk on ice skates.

And I also saw a cyclist doing the wrong thing today - the first that I've seen for about three weeks. He totally ignored the red light and crossed a major road when there was a gap in the traffic. Thank you for making all the drivers who saw you angry with cyclists.

End of rant.

Richard.

[Mallee Boy]

It's not so much BMW drivers here in Oz. It's more likely to happen in the country with drivers wearing Akubras (think 10 gallon hats). Akubra Hats If you come up behind a car on a country road and the driver's wearing a hat, do not overtake if they slow down. They're probably just about to do a right turn across your path. "I always turn here. This is where I live. Everyone knows that."

Richard.

now for the other version (from one who lived in the country & wore an Akubra):

I lost count of the times I had to take evasive action when slowing down on a 110kmh road...indicator going for 200 - 300 metres.....with oncoming traffic....and me trying to make a right hand turn (which is a left hand turm for our Left hand drivers) which was clearly sign posted back some 300 metres. Watching my mirrors all time for the idiot racing up behind me who can not :

a) read road signs and be aware he/she is approaching an intersection.
B) see an indicator flashing on the vehicle in front
C) judge the speed differential of a slowing vehicle making a perfectly legal turn
D) use just an iota of common sense when driving at speed on a road he/she is not familiar with.

Sorry Richard, but it cuts both ways mate. I eventually gave up trying to make a perfectly legal right hand turn, and would simply pull off to the left and let the idiot city drivers go chargeing past.

I also used to move farm machinery and livestock along the same road, complete with advance vehicles, flashing lights and signage warning of what lay ahead....all of which was steadfastly ignored by stupid drivers who could apparently neither asess a situation, acknowledge a warning or a read a sign.

I found what worked the best, particularly when moving livestock along the road, and an approaching vehicle was not reducing speed, despite all the warnings, was to bend down, pick up a good size rock, step onto the road and take very deliberate aim at the driver....that seemed to get their attention fairly quickly.

Sorry for the rant mate, but it really does cut both ways.
Cheers
Grant

[cardinal43]

I miss roundabouts. They are so much more civilised than stop signs and they keep the traffic flowing more smoothly.

Unless you are "trapped" in the inner lane.

[TaoMaas]

I 've noticed that Prius drivers in the Bay Area are like cyclists; They don't like to stop at Stop signs...

How funny that I would find this thread here this morning because there was a Prius driver who almost got broadsided next to me this morning when he went over into a parking lane so he could pass on the right and roll through a stop sign. So, yeah, I've noticed it, too.

[Blue]

I miss roundabouts. They are so much more civilised than stop signs and they keep the traffic flowing more smoothly.

I remember when I was living in Kansas, that had something in the rural areas called All-Way-Go. It works kind of like a 4-way stop, except the first person there has the right of way. In Kansas, farmers could see each other coming for 2 miles and I have seen pick-up trucks racing to the intersection.

We have a lot of bad drivers here in Tallahassee. When I moved here from SoCal, I was expecting my insurance to go down. It went up.

[Rustyoldbug]

I haven't noticed any "road" issues with Prius drivers, other than the Self Sacrifice Ego that was mentioned before. One of my old employees bought one. I was surprised - the mileage isn't actually that great, though I think they are still a good step in the right direction. Having the technology out on the road will help it advance and move forward.

As for bicyclists - I used a bike to commute for a couple years, very interesting experience. I followed the "rules of the road", but had a near miss about once a week by people driving with cell phones or just not paying attention. I actually had some guys try and run me down one night when I worked late and was biking home after dark. Since then I always try and give cyclist a bit of extra room and courtesy (not saying some of them aren't idiots looking to start trouble on their own i.e. Seattle's Critical Mass Group).

We have a lot of bad drivers here in Tallahassee. When I moved here from SoCal, I was expecting my insurance to go down. It went up.

Surprised me too, I moved to SoCal from Seattle and my insurance dropped. Almost half what it was in Seattle! (just thinking about that is making me dance around in my workout clothes with coffee looking outside at cars)- and that included the insurance folks checking the old hot-rod bug in person and an agreed upon value of what it would actually cost for me to build another like it should anything happen to it. In Seattle I could only get basic coverage on the toy unless I wanted to pay insane monthly payments.

You are probably paying a higher "Snowbird" premium in FL - I lived in the Miami / Lauderdale for the first couple years I was out of the service and I don't know how many times my car got bumped by little retired grannies in giant cars. I think seniors should have to take more frequent driving tests and eye exams. My "big" motorcycle accident was down there west of Ft. Lauderdale - an 80 something lady with cataracts and no insurance driving a Lincoln Town Car after dark. Creamed me at about 70 and didn't stop. Evidently she told the police that tracked her down while I was in the ER that she thought she had "bumped the curb". She also had to sit on pillows to "see" over the dash...

[reeftool]

Some of the things I see bicyclists do scare the living crap out of me. I have rode motorcycles for many years and learned very quickly that even minor mishaps can end in serious injury. Far too many cyclists have the attitude that they have a right to be on the road (they do) so the car drivers have to give them room. My attitude on my motorcycle is that every car is out to get me so I better be aware of what is in front of me and behind me at all times. I see bicyclists all the time cut into traffic lanes without looking behind them and using no hand signals at all. They regularly run stop sign and red lights, almost like a death wish. I don't know much about Prius drivers as I don't see too many around here, Hybrid cars aren't much benefit in a cold climate.

[ryan s]

Don't even get me started on motorcycles. We call em "organ donors" for a reason...

In my opinion, everyone's objective on the roads is to be as little "resistance" to others out there. That's how I drive, at least.

[slomojoe]

I have two general observations about driving habits:
1. There is an almost perfect correlation between driving at least 5 mph below the speed limit and failing to use turn signals. (The correlation becomes absolutely perfect if you include people who drive under the speed limit and have a permanently blinking turn signal.)
2. Whenever I am almost run over at a pedestrian crossing, it's always an African American woman at the wheel. (I ran this through my wife, who's black herself, and she says that black women are just about done stopping for any men, especially white ones, so if I get run over it's just my fault.)

I had a third bizarre observation last summer, when I noticed I kept getting stuck behind Hummers creeping through neighborhoods at 20 miler per hour. Then I realized that gas had just hit 4 dollars a gallon, and it all made sense.

[Sailor]

I can't vouch for Prius drivers here in Buffalo, but I must make a parallel on the signalling bit with BMW drivers here. I don't know what it is, but if you own a BMW here, it's like you think that you don't need to use your turn signal, ever. I don't think I've seen a single one use their turn signals and I see many of them daily.

I'm telling you, those Bimmer drivers cannot be trusted.

Jer

[RoxnDox]

Dang, there sure are a variety of, umm "strong" opinions expressed in this thread. What a surprise!

I drive a Honda Civic hybrid myself, not a Prius. By and large, I drive it just like I have driven every other car I've owned thru the years, though I probably go a little bit lighter on the gas pedal (on average). I don't pull out into traffic and crawl up to speed. I don't zoom by at 85. I use the cruise control a lot, keeping it no more than speed limit + 5 . I don't see any higher percentage of hybrid drivers out there being idiots than the regular driving population's percentage of idiocy. I put a minimum of 24K miles per year on the car, just from commuting (112 miles roundtrip/day). I've also put a decent number of miles on both bicycles and motorcycles over the years, and I don't think the level of idiocy has really varied much over time. I think it varies mostly by geographical location... So, after everyone has finished telling their tales of woe and doom let's just remember

"all generalizations are false (including this one)"

Jim

IMO cyclist should pay an annual registration fee just as car drivers and motorcyclist do it would help pay for the cycle lanes. They should also take a test to prove they are competent. Years ago in England there was something called the 'Cycling Proficiency Test', it was voluntary but I'm sure it saved many lives. It's a shame they don't still have it.
Alternatively a once only fee could be paid at the time of purchase.