If you know your history well, you'd appreciate the Greeks and the Romans for the fact you aren't forced to praise Allah and have a name with 22 syllables. The Greeks single-handedly kept the Persians from conquering Europe, and the Romans picked up where the Greeks left off. Thanks to the Byzantines, they kept Christianity alive. But, you probably already know this.

Chances are, unless you are from east Asia or are 100 native American indian, which ever country your family came from were also ass-wipes for the Romans.

Jason

Glad I am Italian then.

And even the "Native Americans" weren't really native. They just got here first.

[Jasvox]

Glad I am Italian then.

And even the "Native Americans" weren't really native. They just got here first.

Ah, then you know what it's like to be someone's bitch throughout ancient and modern history.. Vive Italia!

see my bit about East Asian....that should cover the "native" American Indian part just fine.

Jason

[Blue]

If you know your history well, you'd appreciate the Greeks and the Romans for the fact you aren't forced to praise Allah and have a name with 22 syllables. The Greeks single-handedly kept the Persians from conquering Europe, and the Romans picked up where the Greeks left off. Thanks to the Byzantines, they kept Christianity alive. But, you probably already know this.

Chances are, unless you are from east Asia or are 100 native American indian, which ever country your family came from were also ass-wipes for the Romans.

Jason

My ancestors are Scotch-Irish, Teutonic and Cherokee. The first 1 accounts for Hadrian's wall and the 2nd accounts for the Varian debacle that nearly drove Augustus insane over the missing Legions. It took Augustus 10 years to figure out what happen to those missing Eagles.

Edit: The Spartans turned battled the Persians during the City-State period of Greece. That was one of the greatest stands in History. I rank it up there with The Alamo and Wake Island.

[lurchlarson]

thought you some of you might find this article about global warming being driven by business interesting.

Government monopsony distorts climate science, says SPPI

[ve2vfd]

But I was born in NY and use to go camping in Long Lake NY during the summers.

Ohhh I love Long Lake!

I've done tons of backpacking and canoe camping in that area and man does Long Lake deserve it's name when you have to paddle it's lenght

I paddled it's lenght 3 times while on canoe camping trips (canoed from Old Forge to Upper Saranac Lake), and also walked it's lenght once on a backpacking trip (followed a section of the the Lakeville-Placid trail from Upper Saranac lake to Blue Mountain).

I have to go back there one of these days...

Pat

Ohhh I love Long Lake!

I've done tons of backpacking and canoe camping in that area and man does Long Lake deserve it's name when you have to paddle it's lenght

I paddled it's lenght 3 times while on canoe camping trips (canoed from Old Forge to Upper Saranac Lake), and also walked it's lenght once on a backpacking trip (followed a section of the the Lakeville-Placid trail from Upper Saranac lake to Blue Mountain).

I have to go back there one of these days...

Pat

Yeah I loved it too. Use to camp on the shore below the fire tower. Hiked into town many many times during our weeks stay. Than we would wonder through town. Back then it was easy for parents to let your kids off on their own. We use to rent a canoe and a rowboat down at the marina below town. No one wanted to hike all our gear in.

[er1kksen]

Thing is it's warmed before and it's cooled before. It's a natural process. Now they say we have been in a cooling period for a number of years. Boy I sure wish I had those digital thermometers they had in the time before Christ. They were soooo accurate.

Don't tell me they can tell to a tenth of a degree what the temp was 1000 years ago because they can't.

It sounds like you're disagreeing with me but everything you just said agrees with me. I'm confused. Maybe you misread my post? Its premise was that the earths climate has gone all over the place through its history and despite the fact that we've observed a warming of a few degrees over a brief period of time, we have no idea what on earth the warming means or where it'll go next and it would be ridiculous to say humans were causing it. Sounds kind of like the points you're making.

And I also agree with your nostalgia towards long lake. I should be too young to feel so much nostalgia, but it's where I met my best friend (on a canoe trip).

It sounds like you're disagreeing with me but everything you just said agrees with me. I'm confused. Maybe you misread my post? Its premise was that the earths climate has gone all over the place through its history and despite the fact that we've observed a warming of a few degrees over a brief period of time, we have no idea what on earth the warming means or where it'll go next and it would be ridiculous to say humans were causing it. Sounds kind of like the points you're making.

And I also agree with your nostalgia towards long lake. I should be too young to feel so much nostalgia, but it's where I met my best friend (on a canoe trip).

It's been so many posts ago I may have lost track. We probably agree. I say that we can't possibly know what the temperature was to within 1 degree even 50 years ago. Heck I would go 25 years here. I also say that a lot of the probes in the colder areas have gone bad and have not been replaced. Those in warmer areas have had their micro-climates changed to one degree or another by building and even by deconstruction.

I was listening to a scientist the other day and he was talking about the melting of the ice. That as it melts it gives off CO2. In fact it was either 3x or 300x (can't remember exactly and in any event it doesn't matter to this post) the amount that humans generate. So even if we cut our output to zero we can't stop it. And of course the only way you would think to cut it to zero would be for everyone to die, we would actually give off more in decomposition.

Well, in NYC it didn't reach the 90s until sometime in August. Only the second time in like 64-65 years. I was outside Sunday morn cutting the yard. (Yeah I know how cool is that) But I was just thinking about the NY thing I had heard on the weather report a couple of weeks ago and realized that I hadn't even broken a sweat while mowing. I mean this is August. It's 90 frikkin degrees in Florida at 8 a.m. in August. Yet here I was and it was nice and cool out. Must have been somewhere in the 70's instead of 90 something. (OK exaggeration but usually when I wake up on an August morning the temp hovers in the mid 80s and humidity is, is um well 150%. (Well that's what it feels like) Take the dog out at 7 a.m. and walk 5 feet your drenched in sweat.

God I love this Global Warming. Bring it on.

[Lazaruscomeout]

My problem with the "science" of global warming is in the deliberate and overt silencing of dissenting voices. It is no better today than it was when the world was apparently flat. Scientists of today may, in fairness, condemn and mock the authorities of the past who claimed Columbus was a heretic, but history could well be repeating itself.

[J.Scott]

My problem with the "science" of global warming is in the deliberate and overt silencing of dissenting voices. It is no better today than it was when the world was apparently flat. Scientists of today may, in fairness, condemn and mock the authorities of the past who claimed Columbus was a heretic, but history could well be repeating itself.

What, you mean the world isn't flat?
How could all these well meaning people possibly be wrong?

[slomojoe]

My problem with the "science" of global warming is in the deliberate and overt silencing of dissenting voices. It is no better today than it was when the world was apparently flat. Scientists of today may, in fairness, condemn and mock the authorities of the past who claimed Columbus was a heretic, but history could well be repeating itself.

Not to be a total geek, but people have known the Earth's shape approximates a sphere since the ancient Greeks' time; Erathostenes even came pretty close in calculating the diameter a couple centuries BCE. The ancient Indians also knew that.

As for the "vast scientific conspiracy", it's sheer nonsense. Apart for the fact that the same GCC opponents who whine about it also regularly trumpet the publication in the scientific literature of papers that present inconsistent data or are openly critical of it (and of course you can't have both the silencing of dissenters and their publication in peer-reviewed journals), I can tell you by experience that if there is one thing scientists hate, it's being wrong. If there was any solid evidence that GCC was bogus, you'd see climatologists deserting it en masse, instead of the reverse.

[Lazaruscomeout]

What, you mean the world isn't flat?
How could all these well meaning people possibly be wrong?

That's a great website!

Not to be a total geek, but people have known the Earth's shape approximates a sphere since the ancient Greeks' time; Erathostenes even came pretty close in calculating the diameter a couple centuries BCE. The ancient Indians also knew that.

As for the "vast scientific conspiracy", it's sheer nonsense. Apart for the fact that the same GCC opponents who whine about it also regularly trumpet the publication in the scientific literature of papers that present inconsistent data or are openly critical of it (and of course you can't have both the silencing of dissenters and their publication in peer-reviewed journals), I can tell you by experience that if there is one thing scientists hate, it's being wrong. If there was any solid evidence that GCC was bogus, you'd see climatologists deserting it en masse, instead of the reverse.

Well now little doggy. Stephen Hawking isn't a fringe scientist at all. Yet he held a theory on black holes for 30 years. Turns out the "fringe" scientists were right all along.

As for the earth being flat. It tells you right in the Old Testament that it's a sphere hung upon nothing.

More and more mainstream scientists are backing away from "Global Warming". Forget the fact that they have the sequence of events wrong about CO2.

[Lazaruscomeout]

Not to be a total geek, but people have known the Earth's shape approximates a sphere since the ancient Greeks' time; Erathostenes even came pretty close in calculating the diameter a couple centuries BCE. The ancient Indians also knew that.

As for the "vast scientific conspiracy", it's sheer nonsense. Apart for the fact that the same GCC opponents who whine about it also regularly trumpet the publication in the scientific literature of papers that present inconsistent data or are openly critical of it (and of course you can't have both the silencing of dissenters and their publication in peer-reviewed journals), I can tell you by experience that if there is one thing scientists hate, it's being wrong. If there was any solid evidence that GCC was bogus, you'd see climatologists deserting it en masse, instead of the reverse.

You call it a conspiracy, not I. A conspiracy assumes deliberate covering up of the truth, and I don't believe that to be the case here. I am convinced that the vast majority of climatologists who support the current view on GCC do so with honest conviction. That does not mean that they are right.

I am not claiming that the silencing is being carried out by the scientific community so much as it being an unfortunate, yet deliberate side effect of the media deciding which story to tell, and which to ignore. When was the last time any "mainstream" (read not Fox News) media outlet published the dissenting view on climate change?

I can't help but feel that our thirst for entertaining and sensational news has allowed the concept of human caused GCC to go from theory to fact too swiftly.