[Wheatfield]

He takes pictures of an underage girl without permission, and you have sympathy for the guy?

Not sympathy so much. If what he did is illegal, then certainly, charge him.
If it's not illegal, but is still considered morally unacceptable, then educate him.
I hate catch-all laws such as the one used here appears to be.

[raoulzg]

Not sympathy so much. If what he did is illegal, then certainly, charge him.
If it's not illegal, but is still considered morally unacceptable, then educate him.
I hate catch-all laws such as the one used here appears to be.

He has apologised for the pictures to the parents and erased them in front of them. To bad he had problems with an paranoic Brit But I do understand the parents.

[flyer]

His behavior was kind of out of line for not asking the parents to take the girl's picture first, but in the open, I think legally, you have the right to take pictures of anything and anybody you want. As to publishing those pictures, that is something else...

[Gio645]

His behavior was kind of out of line for not asking the parents to take the girl's picture first, but in the open, I think legally, you have the right to take pictures of anything and anybody you want. As to publishing those pictures, that is something else...

We don't really know if he took pictures of the girl or general pictures that the girl was just a part of the whole. I believe the latter.

sorry for my poor English

[Edvinas]

This isn't a national security issue--it's common sense.

Not at all.

I don't have a daughter, only sons, but if some shmuck started taking pictures of them without my consent and knowledge of the photographer, I would be livid.

I have small daughter, almost 4 years old. I would not care at all if someone would take pictures of her.

Brits and their descendants overseas are really going over the top.

[cpopham]

I think legally, you have the right to take pictures of anything and anybody you want.

In America, yes. In many other countries no.

[fractal]

I don't know if i'd put it down to common sense on the parents part. I don't have kids but i could imagine a parent being a little wary about this. In this day and age it DOES come down to your appearance. If you look like a creep and taking photos of little girls then ofcourse people are going to jump to conclusions.

I'm in China at the moment and would almost not have a care in the world about taking anyones' shot, whether it be boy, girl, baby, man or woman and would not expect any responses other than disgruntled glares or smiles. But then again that is China, peoples personal space here is a little different to those in western nations. I am an English teacher in a kindergarten and take every chance i can get of taking shots of the kids that i teach.

From saying that i think it will be a little disappointing to come home to Australia and have to worry about taking shots of kids. Edvinas, are you sure this kind of problem could not happen in Aus? I'm sure it would.

I do think this punishment is over the top.

[Edvinas]

From saying that i think it will be a little disappointing to come home to Australia and have to worry about taking shots of kids. Edvinas, are you sure this kind of problem could not happen in Aus? I'm sure it would.

I am not sure and I definitely would not risk of taking pictures of children in kindergarten or school I remember reading stories about forbidding for parents to take pictures of their own kids in school gyms and swimming pools, etc.

Many times I was taking pictures in children palyground where my daughter was playing and never was approached by anyone because of that. In England (Manchester) my wife was requested to stop taking pictures (of our daughter) in children playground. That happened during one week visit there. So, it is not so bad in Australia as in England, I guess.

However it is still very different than in Northern and Eastern Europe, where I come from.

[raoulzg]

I am not sure and I definitely would not risk of taking pictures of children in kindergarten or school I remember reading stories about forbidding for parents to take pictures of their own kids in school gyms and swimming pools, etc.

Many times I was taking pictures in children palyground where my daughter was playing and never was approached by anyone because of that. In England (Manchester) my wife was requested to stop taking pictures (of our daughter) in children playground. That happened during one week visit there. So, it is not so bad in Australia as in England, I guess.

However it is still very different than in Northern and Eastern Europe, where I come from.

If I may ask, from where are you? Since you mentioned Eastern Europe.

[Edvinas]

If I may ask, from where are you? Since you mentioned Eastern Europe.

Lithuania. And there there's no chance at all that you would be arrested for taking pictures of child in the public place. Legally you have to ask permission from parents, however mentality of people there are not up to "western" standards yet, and most parents simply don't care. Police also would not bother. There are more serious issues in our life than hunting poor photographers.

[Wheatfield]

I don't know if i'd put it down to common sense on the parents part. I don't have kids but i could imagine a parent being a little wary about this. In this day and age it DOES come down to your appearance. If you look like a creep and taking photos of little girls then ofcourse people are going to jump to conclusions.

On the face of it though, it would appear that the photographer really didn't do anything illegal. If he had, he would have been charged with taking pictures.
They didn't do that, so one presumes taking pictures isn't illegal.
What they did is find a catch-all law that they could use, which drops the episode back into paranoia and police pandering to a hysterical parent, using a vague law that wasn't designed to fit any particular crime to intimidate the photographer.

There is a difference between illegal and simply not thinking things through. This incident appears to blur that line in a very scary way, and really is a thin edge of the wedge type of incident.

Whats next, someone having a random daydream on the subway letting his unseeing gaze drop onto a 4 year old girl for longer than the parent thinks is appropriate getting arrested?

Would a 25 year old female photographer get harrassed by a parent and arrested on a vague catch-all law for taking the same picture? If the answer is no, then does the arrest of the man taking the picture consitute a human rights violation?
Don't we all have a right to be treated fairly under the law?

Think about this before you knee jerk in favour of busting the photographers balls on this. Were I carrying a camera in a society that shows this level of pandering to paranoia, I'd be very afraid to even take it out of the bag in case someone who I wasn't even aware of called the police on me.

[deadwolfbones]

On the face of it though, it would appear that the photographer really didn't do anything illegal. If he had, he would have been charged with taking pictures.
They didn't do that, so one presumes taking pictures isn't illegal.
What they did is find a catch-all law that they could use, which drops the episode back into paranoia and police pandering to a hysterical parent, using a vague law that wasn't designed to fit any particular crime to intimidate the photographer.

There is a difference between illegal and simply not thinking things through. This incident appears to blur that line in a very scary way, and really is a thin edge of the wedge type of incident.

Whats next, someone having a random daydream on the subway letting his unseeing gaze drop onto a 4 year old girl for longer than the parent thinks is appropriate getting arrested?

Would a 25 year old female photographer get harrassed by a parent and arrested on a vague catch-all law for taking the same picture? If the answer is no, then does the arrest of the man taking the picture consitute a human rights violation?
Don't we all have a right to be treated fairly under the law?

Think about this before you knee jerk in favour of busting the photographers balls on this. Were I carrying a camera in a society that shows this level of pandering to paranoia, I'd be very afraid to even take it out of the bag in case someone who I wasn't even aware of called the police on me.

Yep, I agree 100% with this.

[ve2vfd]

and then your charge of "he was taking pictures of my kid" will disappear when you're charged with assault....

You are right of course, but my gut reaction is to take care of the problem when a weirdo is roaming around a kid under my care.

I've taken pics of other peoples children before and always asked permission before... it's not hard and avoids lots of problems.

or when the other guy pulls a pistol and blows your brains out in self defense.

You watch too much american TV...

as to how i would react? i would't give a shit. i'd ask to get a copy of the pics for the photo album.

Thats your choice, some of us care who roams around our kids. I don't know how things are where you are, but life isn't a Normand Rockwell painting around here... not a day goes by where you don't hear of weirdos being busted for doing horrible things to kids around here.

I am pretty sure that the Greek gentleman had good intentions, but unfortunately this world has changed and we must all be more carefull.

Pat

[raoulzg]

I am from Croatia. Here, you can take public pictures of persons who at the moment where in a public place like town squares, metro stations (not that we have one ), tram stations, etc. Well, you get the idea. But, if you take a single picture from a single perssons (not a group) who is not a public figure (not a celebrity), you must have his permission. It was told to me by a photographer who had some problems himself in some countries regarding this problem.

[Lowell Goudge]

sorry if this appears to be a hijacking of the thread, but since many of the opinions offered here represent the perspective of people of different nationalities, and their own national laws, has anyone considered collecting a concise summary of the different legal considerations as a function of country?

This might also consider laws concerning being a public nuisance or causing a public disturbance as well as security issues and privacy issues.

As for the matter of the thread, one might understand a tourist, not knowing what is acceptable, but for a well known photographer not to know the acceptable limits is another matter.