Chinese reverse engineering?

**Lowell Goudge** · 05-21-2009, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Igilligan

As mentioned, Hoya and other manufacutures send their designs to Chinese Factories to get them made cheaper, to increase profits.
They are fully aware of what will happen to their designs once they are in a 'Lawless' manufacturing system like exists in China and other markets. The companies obviously weigh the risks and still decide to deal in those markets.

It is up to the international corporations to decide what actions they should take to address the property rights issues.

Their motivation for more profit is what sends them into China in the first place and is no different than the consumer motivation for searching out the lowest price IMO, it is all about having more money in the pocket at the end of the day.

Sorry to hijack the thread with the pig flashlight.

Touche

JavaJoe · 05-21-2009, 01:21 PM

Hmmm everyone wants it cheap. How would you like to be sewn up with sutures made in china? Cheap isn't always inexpensive. You are paying more in the long run for the chinese stuff. Too bad most Americans don't think long term.

Wheatfield · 05-21-2009, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by JavaJoe

Hmmm everyone wants it cheap. How would you like to be sewn up with sutures made in china? Cheap isn't always inexpensive. You are paying more in the long run for the chinese stuff. Too bad most Americans don't think long term.

Do a Google search for "chinese drywall". As a sometime contractor, this kind of stuff makes me mental because of the lost time involved in fixing this kind of shoddy manufacturing, not to mention people getting sick from having this sort of crap in their homes.

JavaJoe · 05-21-2009, 01:37 PM

Don't have to search it. It was all over the news at one point. Don't forget about lead paint. melamine in animal feed. Chinese stuff isn't worth the gas to go get it yet people eat this stuff up. Everyone wants it cheap. So stop bellyaching when you're out of work. It's your own fault.

alohadave · 05-21-2009, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

The Chinese haven't figured out the whole intellectual property/copyright/patent thing yet, and since the Chinese now have the clout to cause the world's economy to grind to a standstill, no one wants to take on the task of educating them.

They know about it, they just don't care.

And just for the record, just because it's made in China doesn't make it cheap. It's cheap because companies tell Chinese manufacturers to make products for as little cost as possible. They could make high quality products but they would take a hit on the profit margin.

fractal · 05-22-2009, 05:26 AM

There is no doubt they can make reasonably high quality products. No doubt they can also make absolutely haphazard products.

My motorcycle helmet is 'AGV', an Italian brand, but the cheaper ones, (mine), are made in China. I'd prefer not to buy something that protects my life from China, but its approved by the Australian standards so its not too much of of a worry. However, the safety gear made by Chinese companies for Chinese people is totally different. The things that get exported from China never really make it to the Chinese people, unless they go through some kind of ebay system and pay good money. It is quite unfortunate that all the high quality products get sold to prosperous nations without a thought for the people in China.

Lets not also forget that alot of people on this forum are sporting Vietnamese made lenses.

Obviously it is a little different now but i'm sure some of you are old enough to remember the days when Japan also offered multitudes of inferior products. Just like China.

GerryL · 05-22-2009, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Do what I do and boycott Chinese manufactured goods as much as possible.
Really, it's up to the corporations themselves and our governments to pressure China into complying with international trade and intellectual property laws.

You're like saying boycott Walmart.
Most of the products at Walmart are already made in China..why do you think they can offer them for cheap?
Even companies here sub-contract the manufacture of their goods in China and just have them place the branding (american branding) here or already marked as they leave the factories in China.

GerryL · 05-22-2009, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by fractal

There is no doubt they can make reasonably high quality products. No doubt they can also make absolutely haphazard products.

My motorcycle helmet is 'AGV', an Italian brand, but the cheaper ones, (mine), are made in China. I'd prefer not to buy something that protects my life from China, but its approved by the Australian standards so its not too much of of a worry. However, the safety gear made by Chinese companies for Chinese people is totally different. The things that get exported from China never really make it to the Chinese people, unless they go through some kind of ebay system and pay good money. It is quite unfortunate that all the high quality products get sold to prosperous nations without a thought for the people in China.

Lets not also forget that alot of people on this forum are sporting Vietnamese made lenses.

Obviously it is a little different now but i'm sure some of you are old enough to remember the days when Japan also offered multitudes of inferior products. Just like China.

Most specially after World War II, when Japan was rebuilding, "Made in Japan" products where frowned upon by the Americans or US allied countries.

Wheatfield · 05-22-2009, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by GerryL

You're like saying boycott Walmart.

No, that is what you just said.
I've never said that.

Blue · 05-22-2009, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by GerryL

You're like saying boycott Walmart.
Most of the products at Walmart are already made in China..why do you think they can offer them for cheap?
Even companies here sub-contract the manufacture of their goods in China and just have them place the branding (american branding) here or already marked as they leave the factories in China.

If something is made in China, it better not have "Made in the U.S.A." labeling on it because that is illegal would be subject to criminal and civil laws.

creampuff · 05-22-2009, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Do what I do and boycott Chinese manufactured goods as much as possible.
Really, it's up to the corporations themselves and our governments to pressure China into complying with international trade and intellectual property laws.

Then why did you buy a Feisol tripod and ballhead which is made in Taiwan...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/field-accessories/41796-feisol-ct-3371-tripod.html

Wheatfield · 05-22-2009, 10:25 PM

Because I believe in Taiwanese independance.

Parallax · 05-23-2009, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by ve2vfd

True enough!

Western (and mostly American) consumerism ...........................
Pat

Just trying to get a consensus here as we have a fair number of Canadian members:
Is there any existing problem, of any kind, anywhere in the world, that Canadians don't blame on the U.S.?

Wheatfield · 05-23-2009, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Parallax

Just trying to get a consensus here as we have a fair number of Canadian members:
Is there any existing problem, of any kind, anywhere in the world, that Canadian's don't blame on the U.S.?

I think we have to take responsibility for Celine Dion.

Blue · 05-23-2009, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Because I believe in Taiwanese independance.

Ironically, I thought the British should have turned Hong Kong over to Taiwan because that his really the government they leased it from. Otherwise they should have kept it.

05-22-2009, 05:26 AM	#21
fractal Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,547	There is no doubt they can make reasonably high quality products. No doubt they can also make absolutely haphazard products. My motorcycle helmet is 'AGV', an Italian brand, but the cheaper ones, (mine), are made in China. I'd prefer not to buy something that protects my life from China, but its approved by the Australian standards so its not too much of of a worry. However, the safety gear made by Chinese companies for Chinese people is totally different. The things that get exported from China never really make it to the Chinese people, unless they go through some kind of ebay system and pay good money. It is quite unfortunate that all the high quality products get sold to prosperous nations without a thought for the people in China. Lets not also forget that alot of people on this forum are sporting Vietnamese made lenses. Obviously it is a little different now but i'm sure some of you are old enough to remember the days when Japan also offered multitudes of inferior products. Just like China. Last edited by fractal; 05-22-2009 at 05:46 AM.

05-23-2009, 07:55 AM	#28
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by ve2vfd True enough! Western (and mostly American) consumerism ........................... Pat Just trying to get a consensus here as we have a fair number of Canadian members: Is there any existing problem, of any kind, anywhere in the world, that Canadians don't blame on the U.S.? Last edited by Parallax; 05-23-2009 at 10:16 AM.

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05-21-2009, 01:03 PM	#16
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,887	Originally posted by Igilligan As mentioned, Hoya and other manufacutures send their designs to Chinese Factories to get them made cheaper, to increase profits. They are fully aware of what will happen to their designs once they are in a 'Lawless' manufacturing system like exists in China and other markets. The companies obviously weigh the risks and still decide to deal in those markets. It is up to the international corporations to decide what actions they should take to address the property rights issues. Their motivation for more profit is what sends them into China in the first place and is no different than the consumer motivation for searching out the lowest price IMO, it is all about having more money in the pocket at the end of the day. Sorry to hijack the thread with the pig flashlight. Touche

05-21-2009, 01:21 PM	#17
JavaJoe Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somewhere between here and there Posts: 120	Hmmm everyone wants it cheap. How would you like to be sewn up with sutures made in china? Cheap isn't always inexpensive. You are paying more in the long run for the chinese stuff. Too bad most Americans don't think long term.

05-21-2009, 01:33 PM	#18
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by JavaJoe Hmmm everyone wants it cheap. How would you like to be sewn up with sutures made in china? Cheap isn't always inexpensive. You are paying more in the long run for the chinese stuff. Too bad most Americans don't think long term. Do a Google search for "chinese drywall". As a sometime contractor, this kind of stuff makes me mental because of the lost time involved in fixing this kind of shoddy manufacturing, not to mention people getting sick from having this sort of crap in their homes.

05-21-2009, 01:37 PM	#19
JavaJoe Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somewhere between here and there Posts: 120	Don't have to search it. It was all over the news at one point. Don't forget about lead paint. melamine in animal feed. Chinese stuff isn't worth the gas to go get it yet people eat this stuff up. Everyone wants it cheap. So stop bellyaching when you're out of work. It's your own fault.

05-21-2009, 02:22 PM	#20
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	Originally posted by Wheatfield The Chinese haven't figured out the whole intellectual property/copyright/patent thing yet, and since the Chinese now have the clout to cause the world's economy to grind to a standstill, no one wants to take on the task of educating them. They know about it, they just don't care. And just for the record, just because it's made in China doesn't make it cheap. It's cheap because companies tell Chinese manufacturers to make products for as little cost as possible. They could make high quality products but they would take a hit on the profit margin.

05-22-2009, 02:31 PM	#22
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	Originally posted by Wheatfield Do what I do and boycott Chinese manufactured goods as much as possible. Really, it's up to the corporations themselves and our governments to pressure China into complying with international trade and intellectual property laws. You're like saying boycott Walmart. Most of the products at Walmart are already made in China..why do you think they can offer them for cheap? Even companies here sub-contract the manufacture of their goods in China and just have them place the branding (american branding) here or already marked as they leave the factories in China.

05-22-2009, 02:34 PM	#23
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	Originally posted by fractal There is no doubt they can make reasonably high quality products. No doubt they can also make absolutely haphazard products. My motorcycle helmet is 'AGV', an Italian brand, but the cheaper ones, (mine), are made in China. I'd prefer not to buy something that protects my life from China, but its approved by the Australian standards so its not too much of of a worry. However, the safety gear made by Chinese companies for Chinese people is totally different. The things that get exported from China never really make it to the Chinese people, unless they go through some kind of ebay system and pay good money. It is quite unfortunate that all the high quality products get sold to prosperous nations without a thought for the people in China. Lets not also forget that alot of people on this forum are sporting Vietnamese made lenses. Obviously it is a little different now but i'm sure some of you are old enough to remember the days when Japan also offered multitudes of inferior products. Just like China. Most specially after World War II, when Japan was rebuilding, "Made in Japan" products where frowned upon by the Americans or US allied countries.

05-22-2009, 08:36 PM	#24
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by GerryL You're like saying boycott Walmart. No, that is what you just said. I've never said that.

05-22-2009, 09:03 PM	#25
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by GerryL You're like saying boycott Walmart. Most of the products at Walmart are already made in China..why do you think they can offer them for cheap? Even companies here sub-contract the manufacture of their goods in China and just have them place the branding (american branding) here or already marked as they leave the factories in China. If something is made in China, it better not have "Made in the U.S.A." labeling on it because that is illegal would be subject to criminal and civil laws.

05-22-2009, 09:18 PM	#26
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Originally posted by Wheatfield Do what I do and boycott Chinese manufactured goods as much as possible. Really, it's up to the corporations themselves and our governments to pressure China into complying with international trade and intellectual property laws. Then why did you buy a Feisol tripod and ballhead which is made in Taiwan... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/field-accessories/41796-feisol-ct-3371-tripod.html

05-22-2009, 10:25 PM	#27
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Because I believe in Taiwanese independance.

05-23-2009, 08:13 AM	#29
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Parallax Just trying to get a consensus here as we have a fair number of Canadian members: Is there any existing problem, of any kind, anywhere in the world, that Canadian's don't blame on the U.S.? I think we have to take responsibility for Celine Dion.

05-23-2009, 08:33 AM	#30
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Wheatfield Because I believe in Taiwanese independance. Ironically, I thought the British should have turned Hong Kong over to Taiwan because that his really the government they leased it from. Otherwise they should have kept it.