Is this thread for real?

If I was a moderator, I honestly wouldn't allow this kind of thread to be made. You are being incredibly insulting to people that are new to photography and just don't know any better. Look at your very first posts, something tells me that you'll realize that they were close to the same as these new people's. We all have to start somewhere, but really have some tolerance for other people. Have you tried being nice to them and helping answer their questions instead of complaining about them?

Here you go Marc. Here's an disgruntled soul who's still upset that I criticized one of his threads. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/62060-something-dissapointing-about-dslrs.htmlI I meant what I said, but I shouldn't have said it. I was stupidly crass and abrasive, but I didn't vindictively distort his words like he's doing to me. I believe I spoke plainly when I said: "I'm not talking about newbies who deserve our patience and guidance". So now I'm not only insulting and intolerant, but he wants this thread removed. I believe this is a valid discussion and I would be particularly interested in hearing from anyone else who thinks it should be censored or removed. (including moderators) Maybe it should be.

[jct us101]

I had no idea that you even posted on that thread. I don't keep track of names and follow them around to other threads. I responded objectively to this thread, and I really thought that what you said was out of line. I'm allowed to have my own opinion, right?

[jct us101]

I said that if I was a moderator I wouldn't allow this kind of thread. There's a huge difference.

[wlank]

I'm sure you've noticed how cranky and less tolerant I've shamefully become.

Not the case at all. If you really want to become cranky and intolerant ask Adam to make you a moderator!!! Maybe you'd fill in for me for a couple of months.

I had no idea that you even posted on that thread. I don't keep track of names and follow them around to other threads. I responded objectively to this thread, and I really thought that what you said was out of line. I'm allowed to have my own opinion, right?

You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion, but I'm also entitled disbelieve what you say.
Sorry I was so insulting to you.

Not the case at all. If you really want to become cranky and intolerant ask Adam to make you a moderator!!! Maybe you'd fill in for me for a couple of months.

Ha, ha
That's really funny. I would be the absolute worst choice for a substitute wlank. Now if you want to punish Adam for some reason...

[jsherman999]

Sometimes people start out as complete ass-hats, and then mature into only partial ass-hats as time goes on and they become acclimated to the forum community. Sometimes they eventually even become interesting people who's posts you look forward to seeing.

(I'm thinking of one member in particular who shall remain nameless - try to figure out who I'm talking about. No, it's not me

I'm looking forward to new blood, and the insufferable jerks will just find their way to my ignore list.

[Marc Langille]

Everyone,

I am not taking sides in this discussion and I would second Bill's suggestion that any of you consider the moderating duties for a while. I suspect you may have a different perspective after a while. Bill, unfortunately I've not followed in those footsteps you tread (cranky and intolerant).

What amazes me is that (unfortunately) most folks have no idea of some of the things that moderators must be involved in. General Talk is another area that some continue to be involved in and I have no desire to go post in that forum, for several reasons. The main one is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but they are not entitled to push it upon someone else. I believe that it's sometimes important to disagree and it's simple enough to accept the fact that you can disagree. Why does it need to escalate beyond that point? I am fairly certain that if those involved parties were speaking face to face, the context, etc. would be markedly more civil (referencing the less civil conversations of course).

Yes the threads can have a life of their own and I'll read them, but very rarely participate. I've been personally attacked before and it didn't bother me - it wasn't about me - it's their issues, not mine. The nice part is that I redirected the attacker to the point at hand with an objective response and he recanted. Sometimes patience is a valuable thing...

Regards,
Marc

I said that if I was a moderator I wouldn't allow this kind of thread. There's a huge difference.

No chance of you being a Moderator if you let your opinions get in the way. This is a valid
thread.

Jeff, I agree with you that the forum is changing, but then again it has been changing from day 1 (you can even call it evolving if you like). What we considered as a community a year ago is becoming too big to be that same community. I think it's reaching the point where we need to think about creating smaller communities within the whole. There's lots of ways we can do that if we think about it, using social groups more is one way, PM's and Guestbook entries are others.

[johnmflores]

I've only been on the forum a short while, so I can't comment on how it's already changed, but I hope that the K-7 releases a flood of new and returning Pentax owners into the greater wild and into this little oasis. That would mean that Pentax is successful and has the funding to produce more and more interesting bodies and lenses that gives us the tools to push our photography forward.

I would like to not have to ask myself, "did I move from Nikon to a stagnant or declining system?"

[rparmar]

Please forgive my cynicism, but get ready for the morons. With the release of the K-7, this forum will have an influx of new members. Some will be old friends returning to Pentax (hooray!), some will be fine, thoughtful, intelligent people, but there will quite possibly be a large influx of nitwits. I'm not talking about newbies who deserve our patience and guidance. I am talking about snotty know-it-all instant-fanboys, and outright forons. (forum-morons) It's happening already if you haven't noticed.

No, I haven't noticed. The outright morons are some of the long-time posters here, who retreat to personal insults and aggression if their opinions are challenged. Why they are tolerated I will never know.

I have no idea why you would start such a thread as this, which seems only designed to stir up more negativity. I have just responded in kind, so let me follow my own advice and turn the mood around.

I look forward to enlightened new Pentax users who, on release of the K-7, no longer have an excuse to settle for a system that delivers fewer features for more money. I expect this forum to get all of the smartest and wisest of photographers, who have made the best decision they could, for themselves and their photography. And I trust that this influx of bright and shining lights will help to diminish the negative impact of some of the bitter old-timers.

[Jonson PL]

Please forgive my cynicism, but get ready for the morons. With the release of the K-7, this forum will have an influx of new members. Some will be old friends returning to Pentax (hooray!), some will be fine, thoughtful, intelligent people, but there will quite possibly be a large influx of nitwits. I'm not talking about newbies who deserve our patience and guidance. I am talking about snotty know-it-all instant-fanboys, and outright forons. (forum-morons) It's happening already if you haven't noticed.

I think DPr will always be much worse, because Trolls will want to try and deter new user to go Pentax. By spamming the Pentax SLR forum with nonsense, they will feel better about their own 'dated' choice, and can tell everybody how stupid it is to consider Pentax.
But of cause it will also bring new excellent photographer to Pentax, like seen with launch of K10 and K20

[monochrome]

I look forward to enlightened new Pentax users who, on release of the K-7, no longer have an excuse to settle for a system that delivers fewer features for more money. I expect this forum to get all of the smartest and wisest of photographers, who have made the best decision they could, for themselves and their photography. And I trust that this influx of bright and shining lights will help to diminish the negative impact of some of the bitter old-timers.

Yes, the Forum will be different, but it would have been different anyway, albeit in a different different way. (You might need to read that twice )

The K20D introduced me to PentaxForums, and - whatever you think of me - I don't think you'd find my nick in most members' asshat columns.

The K-7 will introduce interesting members; most of the others will fade away.

The Ignore feature is a friend.

Lately I read individual Forums rather than Quick Links just to filter out the less interesting (to me) commentary.

I will likely focus on posting images and viewing image and camera body threads and omit the other stuff.

This is a good time to keep my head down for a while.

I gave some thought to this topic a few months ago so here goes my speech.

I also thought for a long-time that the forum was following some sort of involution toward stupidity. But after exercising some digging on my memory, I realize that when I first joined the forum, I used to lurk for information that was useful for me as I was learning the digital part of photography basically from 0. That means that I was staying away of most of the heated threads since I was mainly interested in learning the basics of the system rather than demonstrate how a badly exposed shoot would lead to banding issues or how few life had Pentax in their system. But those threads has been always there. Impatient, stupid and bored (or every combination of these attributes) people were always there.

In my case, as I was starting to know more of digital photography and more about some members of the forum, I started to develop some phobias and became more impatient when people started to get irrational. I was finding myself participating more and more on those discussions until a point that I barely recognized myself whenever I was involved in any argument. Reached that point I decided that it was much better to stay away from this type of forum. I still coming for information and some threads still very informative but as Marc pointed out, whenever you get close to News and Rumor and General discussion the bullets start flying and only if you feel playful you want to enter there. In my particular case, I found most of the other parts of the forum (gear, lenses....) highly redundant and I decided that the forum was a lost of time for me. It doesnt help that I have changed systems but that it is different story, I was out of here before that happened.

To those who thinks that this forum is better than Dpreview I would recommend you to exercise some objective thinking. There are dreadful threads around there but I dont think that they are any worst than many one can find here.

The only part that I really think that has "involuted" here is that as the number of member increases, it is more difficult to find interesting information. But I dont think that it is because the new members are any worst. Loyal dogs/acceptance-seekers and relentless trolls have been always part of every forum since the beginning of Internet. I think that our change of perception has to do with the fact that they are talking about things that you know from long time ago and they are new to them.

I still visiting the post your images, challenges... That is about the only section of the forum that i find worth looking.

[Marc Langille]

Yes the threads can have a life of their own and I'll read them, but very rarely participate. I've been personally attacked before and it didn't bother me - it wasn't about me - it's their issues, not mine. The nice part is that I redirected the attacker to the point at hand with an objective response and he recanted. Sometimes patience is a valuable thing...

BTW, that personal attack was on DPR... I've had one personal and one twisting everything I stated on DPR - that response wasn't even accurate...:ugh: Interestingly enough on that second one: after I pointed out my original post (which couldn't be edited) to a senior member that he completely misquoted me, he never apologized or responded again to that thread...

All forums have issues: we simply have a couple of sub-forums to concentrate them within. Therefore is easier to find those hotly debated and less pleasant than other forums not so pleasant posts - they are concentrated into two sub-forums!!

Thus someone can easily generalize and make a sweeping statement about PF being "less civil".... and not really speak about PF as a whole.

Regards,
Marc

Thus someone can easily generalize and make a sweeping statement about PF being "less civil".... and not really speak about PF as a whole.
[/I]
Regards,
Marc

To be fair Marc, not all the threads of DPreview are uncivilized either. There is not such a thing as a better forum. The only advantage on this one is that there is more room for people to express. And depending on the people expressing that can be good or bad.