How much is gas now?

Blue · 06-26-2009, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by blind-bat

Well, I did my part today, I only passed gas once.

I hope you were near Charlie Wrangel's office.

Blue · 06-26-2009, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

Crap $ noTrade. The pseudoscience bill. She wanted an immediate vote because she knows that if she waited more and more scientists are backing away from "Global Warming" being caused by man.

It's about as fair as kyoto

Green Peace actually was against this bill in the end.

Tyler · 06-26-2009, 06:35 PM

^ Too good.

I really hope the Senate has enough sense to not pass this bill. It's a giant step in the wrong direction and really just add's to my fear of Americas future. A future I, only being 17 right now, will have to live with. Oh can't I wait.

flippedgazelle · 06-27-2009, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Damn Brit

$3.03 for regular today.

$2.53 here. Regular has gone up exactly $ 0.90 in exactly 4 months at the closest gas station.

ryan s · 06-27-2009, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

This is true. But it makes you FEEL better. And you can look down at the girls driving those little sports cars.

I actually don't like driving tall vehicles since they don't handle as well as cars. And I like looking over to check out the hotties

Originally posted by Blue

Mostly horses and mules with the occasional jack-ass. We mostly retired the horses and especially the mules and the jack-asses are apparently in charge.

baa

zing

Originally posted by blind-bat

Well, I did my part today, I only passed gas once.

No joke...if I could run my car off "natural" gas, I'd never have to fill it up

Originally posted by Tyler

^ Too good.

I really hope the Senate has enough sense to not pass this bill. It's a giant step in the wrong direction and really just add's to my fear of Americas future. A future I, only being 17 right now, will have to live with. Oh can't I wait.

People have been saying that for ages, along with "the world will end in the year ______," "kids and their damn music," and the ever-classic "we had it so hard when we were younger." Victorians would die on the spot if they could glimpse into our world today...it's just that we have transitions that make it easier on folks. We didn't jump from pyramids to electricity (well...unless you're a conspiracy theorist who believes Egyptians created electricity).

You'll hear "kids are our future...don't mess it up" hundreds of times till you're done with college. So you have 3 options: Change it, live with it, or go somewhere else you think is better.

cardinal43 · 06-29-2009, 04:17 AM

Originally posted by flippedgazelle

$2.53 here. Regular has gone up exactly $ 0.90 in exactly 4 months at the closest gas station.

$2.49 yesterday in northern VA.

**Douglas_of_Sweden** · 07-01-2009, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

Wait a sec. Ethanol has less btu than gas. It is not as explosive. It doesn't have the same amount of power given the same quantity. It doesn't have the same bang for your buck. How can you horsepower be higher because of the fuel when the fuel is less combustible? That's why your mpg is lower. Isn't cane a high fertilizer product? If it is then you are still polluting with runoff.

Don't ask me how this horsepower thing works, I'm just a scientist in the wrong field to be specialist on engines, but it is even a sales-argument here, and there are motor-interrested people converting old gasoline cars to ethanol mainly for this reason rather than climate or environmental.

As for how they fertilize the cane in Brazil, I do not know these details, but I've read papers from sources I trust with studies of the over-all energi consumtion of alternative energy sources taking into account such things as where does the energy comes from for fertilizers, are they transported with fossil fuels, are the soil prepared or the cane/corn/whatever harvested with fossil duel driven machines, how is the harvest transported, how is the ethanol produced from the crop etc. From this sort of over all energy budgets results that Brasilian cane is currently the most renewable source for ethanol (as I said I dont remember the exact number) such that the production results in much more new renewable energy than what it consumes fossil fuel. In the bottom of the list are the US ethanol production from corn, which consume as much fossil fuel as it produce ethanol (in terms of energy...I seam to recall that they even fired the destilation process with oil!!). Now, since I've got the impression that you worry about where your tax money goes, perhaps you should worry about this. When thinking about an English language source for this, I believe there were a special issue of National Geographic one or two years ago.

Yes oil is a finite resource. But I've seen reports that have it lasting at least another 100 years. And there is a ton of it right here in the US. We need to drill for it. Not so much for price but for our national security. And to put the kibosh on the arabs/opec. The next generation of motive transportation hasn't even been invented. So far all we do is make what's here more efficient. However there comes a time of diminishing returns due to natural laws. Solar? Manufacturing/decommissioning at the end of usefullness is environmentally unfriendly as are most of the "alternatives".

And there are reports saying that the peak of oil is about now. With oil resources it is like it is with the alternatives. If you consume more energy to search, drill, pump, transport and refine the oil than is stored in the resulting fuel, there is no point. Then there are the economical laws: when the oil becomes so expensive to produce that no one can afford to use it, there is no point. So there is plenty of oil down there that will never be of any use to us. What I recall, it was an American geologist who discovered how the economics of oil works when one cease to find new sources and the oil production cannot increase any more, and he presumable predicted the evolution of the American oil market very well, so there is reason to believe that his ideas will work on the global market as well.
In any case, I'm quite happy to know I have a car that can run on both gasoline and ethanol.

If it was up to the algore we would be using horses. Actually maybe walking. Or we just wouldn't be here at all. After all that's the only way to really preserve the earth, eliminate mankind. Sorry. I want to enjoy my life. Algore be damned

Yes, I want to enjoy my life also...and I do...but I also want my kids and their kids to be able to enjoy life. Frankly, what scares me is not if I will be able to travel by car, or fly somewhere on vacation etc...it is how the heck we are going to be able to sustain food production to 7 billion people or more without oil ... farming all aorund the world are mostly dependent on fossil fuel to work.

Wildnsyko · 07-01-2009, 05:36 PM

$2.53 here in Southeast, MO

graphicgr8s · 07-01-2009, 07:33 PM

Douglas, sugar cane is produced here in Florida. The state of Florida is buying hundreds of thousands of acres of land freom one sugar company here in order to try and restore the Everglades from the devastation that sugar production has produced. When I say the State of Florida you really should read that as "The taxpayers of Florida" So cane isn't really an environmentally friendly fuel.

Blue · 07-01-2009, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

Douglas, sugar cane is produced here in Florida. The state of Florida is buying hundreds of thousands of acres of land freom one sugar company here in order to try and restore the Everglades from the devastation that sugar production has produced. When I say the State of Florida you really should read that as "The taxpayers of Florida" So cane isn't really an environmentally friendly fuel.

Human activity will have impacts no matter what. Think about big cities like NY, LA, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta etc. Perhaps we should restore those back to their original ecosystems.

**RobA_Oz** · 07-02-2009, 03:14 AM

Say what you like, but sugar-based ethanol is much more environmentally-friendly than ethanol from corn, and its overall energy-efficiency is much higher, as well.

In the long run, the fuel that seems to be the strongest contender (at present) is distillate from micro-biological production, but I don't expect it to be cheap (in current US fuel price terms, anyway).

A few years ago, I wouldn't have thought a diesel car could be fun and economical. Having bought a new one recently, I can safely declare that thought passe. It won't please the prophets of doom and disaster, but I believe personal transport's too closely linked to personal freedom to let go of the idea lightly, so expect to see fuel efficiencies rise as fossil fuel supplies fall, and environmentally-friendly fuels burgeon at the same time.

By the way, we pay around $1.35AU per litre for standard ULP here at the moment. You can translate that to your own currency and reflect on it. Cheaper than Europe, but more expensive than the US or Iraq!

graphicgr8s · 07-02-2009, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

Say what you like, but sugar-based ethanol is much more environmentally-friendly than ethanol from corn, and its overall energy-efficiency is much higher, as well.

In the long run, the fuel that seems to be the strongest contender (at present) is distillate from micro-biological production, but I don't expect it to be cheap (in current US fuel price terms, anyway).

A few years ago, I wouldn't have thought a diesel car could be fun and economical. Having bought a new one recently, I can safely declare that thought passe. It won't please the prophets of doom and disaster, but I believe personal transport's too closely linked to personal freedom to let go of the idea lightly, so expect to see fuel efficiencies rise as fossil fuel supplies fall, and environmentally-friendly fuels burgeon at the same time.

By the way, we pay around $1.35AU per litre for standard ULP here at the moment. You can translate that to your own currency and reflect on it. Cheaper than Europe, but more expensive than the US or Iraq!

Well after Florida is spending tons of money on restoring what sugar cane producers did to grow the "environmentally friendly" cane I don't think it's any worse or better than any other fuel. Look at the Everglades.

graphicgr8s · 07-02-2009, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by Blue

Human activity will have impacts no matter what. Think about big cities like NY, LA, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta etc. Perhaps we should restore those back to their original ecosystems.

Well Central Park wouldn't even exist. That's all manmade.

Blue · 07-02-2009, 08:08 AM

The argument over sugar cane to ethanol is a moot point in context of the Crap and noTrade Bill. The bill mandates a reduction in CO2 and other greenhouse gases by 83% based on 2005 levels. That number is science fiction. That is especially true considering the population of the earth will likely double by then. However, the sugar mill by products could be turned to ethanol if it wasn't for this bill which is designed to make carbon and fart traders the new Exxon-Mobil (al gore).

The bottom line, bio-diesel and ethanol are a no go under the Cap and Trade bill.

RollsUp · 07-03-2009, 12:14 PM

A fixed price of $7.05 here in western AK. No need to pay for any this month now. Why? The town is officially out of gas until the fuel barge arrives at about end of this month.

Heating fuel is getting pretty low too.

Lucky it's summer now.

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06-26-2009, 06:06 PM	#181
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by blind-bat Well, I did my part today, I only passed gas once. I hope you were near Charlie Wrangel's office.

06-26-2009, 06:07 PM	#182
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by graphicgr8s Crap $ noTrade. The pseudoscience bill. She wanted an immediate vote because she knows that if she waited more and more scientists are backing away from "Global Warming" being caused by man. It's about as fair as kyoto Green Peace actually was against this bill in the end.

06-26-2009, 06:35 PM	#183
Tyler Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: 3rd rock from the sun Photos: Gallery Posts: 478	^ Too good. I really hope the Senate has enough sense to not pass this bill. It's a giant step in the wrong direction and really just add's to my fear of Americas future. A future I, only being 17 right now, will have to live with. Oh can't I wait.

06-27-2009, 09:09 AM	#184
flippedgazelle Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NJ, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,270	Originally posted by Damn Brit $3.03 for regular today. $2.53 here. Regular has gone up exactly $ 0.90 in exactly 4 months at the closest gas station.

06-27-2009, 09:40 AM	#185
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Originally posted by graphicgr8s This is true. But it makes you FEEL better. And you can look down at the girls driving those little sports cars. I actually don't like driving tall vehicles since they don't handle as well as cars. And I like looking over to check out the hotties Originally posted by Blue Mostly horses and mules with the occasional jack-ass. We mostly retired the horses and especially the mules and the jack-asses are apparently in charge. baa zing Originally posted by blind-bat Well, I did my part today, I only passed gas once. No joke...if I could run my car off "natural" gas, I'd never have to fill it up Originally posted by Tyler ^ Too good. I really hope the Senate has enough sense to not pass this bill. It's a giant step in the wrong direction and really just add's to my fear of Americas future. A future I, only being 17 right now, will have to live with. Oh can't I wait. People have been saying that for ages, along with "the world will end in the year ______," "kids and their damn music," and the ever-classic "we had it so hard when we were younger." Victorians would die on the spot if they could glimpse into our world today...it's just that we have transitions that make it easier on folks. We didn't jump from pyramids to electricity (well...unless you're a conspiracy theorist who believes Egyptians created electricity). You'll hear "kids are our future...don't mess it up" hundreds of times till you're done with college. So you have 3 options: Change it, live with it, or go somewhere else you think is better.

06-29-2009, 04:17 AM	#186
cardinal43 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,412	Originally posted by flippedgazelle $2.53 here. Regular has gone up exactly $ 0.90 in exactly 4 months at the closest gas station. $2.49 yesterday in northern VA.

07-01-2009, 04:45 PM	#187
Douglas_of_Sweden Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,374	Originally posted by graphicgr8s Wait a sec. Ethanol has less btu than gas. It is not as explosive. It doesn't have the same amount of power given the same quantity. It doesn't have the same bang for your buck. How can you horsepower be higher because of the fuel when the fuel is less combustible? That's why your mpg is lower. Isn't cane a high fertilizer product? If it is then you are still polluting with runoff. Don't ask me how this horsepower thing works, I'm just a scientist in the wrong field to be specialist on engines, but it is even a sales-argument here, and there are motor-interrested people converting old gasoline cars to ethanol mainly for this reason rather than climate or environmental. As for how they fertilize the cane in Brazil, I do not know these details, but I've read papers from sources I trust with studies of the over-all energi consumtion of alternative energy sources taking into account such things as where does the energy comes from for fertilizers, are they transported with fossil fuels, are the soil prepared or the cane/corn/whatever harvested with fossil duel driven machines, how is the harvest transported, how is the ethanol produced from the crop etc. From this sort of over all energy budgets results that Brasilian cane is currently the most renewable source for ethanol (as I said I dont remember the exact number) such that the production results in much more new renewable energy than what it consumes fossil fuel. In the bottom of the list are the US ethanol production from corn, which consume as much fossil fuel as it produce ethanol (in terms of energy...I seam to recall that they even fired the destilation process with oil!!). Now, since I've got the impression that you worry about where your tax money goes, perhaps you should worry about this. When thinking about an English language source for this, I believe there were a special issue of National Geographic one or two years ago. Yes oil is a finite resource. But I've seen reports that have it lasting at least another 100 years. And there is a ton of it right here in the US. We need to drill for it. Not so much for price but for our national security. And to put the kibosh on the arabs/opec. The next generation of motive transportation hasn't even been invented. So far all we do is make what's here more efficient. However there comes a time of diminishing returns due to natural laws. Solar? Manufacturing/decommissioning at the end of usefullness is environmentally unfriendly as are most of the "alternatives". And there are reports saying that the peak of oil is about now. With oil resources it is like it is with the alternatives. If you consume more energy to search, drill, pump, transport and refine the oil than is stored in the resulting fuel, there is no point. Then there are the economical laws: when the oil becomes so expensive to produce that no one can afford to use it, there is no point. So there is plenty of oil down there that will never be of any use to us. What I recall, it was an American geologist who discovered how the economics of oil works when one cease to find new sources and the oil production cannot increase any more, and he presumable predicted the evolution of the American oil market very well, so there is reason to believe that his ideas will work on the global market as well. In any case, I'm quite happy to know I have a car that can run on both gasoline and ethanol. If it was up to the algore we would be using horses. Actually maybe walking. Or we just wouldn't be here at all. After all that's the only way to really preserve the earth, eliminate mankind. Sorry. I want to enjoy my life. Algore be damned Yes, I want to enjoy my life also...and I do...but I also want my kids and their kids to be able to enjoy life. Frankly, what scares me is not if I will be able to travel by car, or fly somewhere on vacation etc...it is how the heck we are going to be able to sustain food production to 7 billion people or more without oil ... farming all aorund the world are mostly dependent on fossil fuel to work.

07-01-2009, 05:36 PM	#188
Wildnsyko Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Southeast MO Photos: Gallery Posts: 366	$2.53 here in Southeast, MO

07-01-2009, 07:33 PM	#189
graphicgr8s Guest	Douglas, sugar cane is produced here in Florida. The state of Florida is buying hundreds of thousands of acres of land freom one sugar company here in order to try and restore the Everglades from the devastation that sugar production has produced. When I say the State of Florida you really should read that as "The taxpayers of Florida" So cane isn't really an environmentally friendly fuel.

07-01-2009, 07:43 PM	#190
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by graphicgr8s Douglas, sugar cane is produced here in Florida. The state of Florida is buying hundreds of thousands of acres of land freom one sugar company here in order to try and restore the Everglades from the devastation that sugar production has produced. When I say the State of Florida you really should read that as "The taxpayers of Florida" So cane isn't really an environmentally friendly fuel. Human activity will have impacts no matter what. Think about big cities like NY, LA, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta etc. Perhaps we should restore those back to their original ecosystems.

07-02-2009, 03:14 AM	#191
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,209	Say what you like, but sugar-based ethanol is much more environmentally-friendly than ethanol from corn, and its overall energy-efficiency is much higher, as well. In the long run, the fuel that seems to be the strongest contender (at present) is distillate from micro-biological production, but I don't expect it to be cheap (in current US fuel price terms, anyway). A few years ago, I wouldn't have thought a diesel car could be fun and economical. Having bought a new one recently, I can safely declare that thought passe. It won't please the prophets of doom and disaster, but I believe personal transport's too closely linked to personal freedom to let go of the idea lightly, so expect to see fuel efficiencies rise as fossil fuel supplies fall, and environmentally-friendly fuels burgeon at the same time. By the way, we pay around $1.35AU per litre for standard ULP here at the moment. You can translate that to your own currency and reflect on it. Cheaper than Europe, but more expensive than the US or Iraq!

07-02-2009, 06:32 AM	#192
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by RobA_Oz Say what you like, but sugar-based ethanol is much more environmentally-friendly than ethanol from corn, and its overall energy-efficiency is much higher, as well. In the long run, the fuel that seems to be the strongest contender (at present) is distillate from micro-biological production, but I don't expect it to be cheap (in current US fuel price terms, anyway). A few years ago, I wouldn't have thought a diesel car could be fun and economical. Having bought a new one recently, I can safely declare that thought passe. It won't please the prophets of doom and disaster, but I believe personal transport's too closely linked to personal freedom to let go of the idea lightly, so expect to see fuel efficiencies rise as fossil fuel supplies fall, and environmentally-friendly fuels burgeon at the same time. By the way, we pay around $1.35AU per litre for standard ULP here at the moment. You can translate that to your own currency and reflect on it. Cheaper than Europe, but more expensive than the US or Iraq! Well after Florida is spending tons of money on restoring what sugar cane producers did to grow the "environmentally friendly" cane I don't think it's any worse or better than any other fuel. Look at the Everglades.

07-02-2009, 06:33 AM	#193
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by Blue Human activity will have impacts no matter what. Think about big cities like NY, LA, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta etc. Perhaps we should restore those back to their original ecosystems. Well Central Park wouldn't even exist. That's all manmade.

07-02-2009, 08:08 AM	#194
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	The argument over sugar cane to ethanol is a moot point in context of the Crap and noTrade Bill. The bill mandates a reduction in CO2 and other greenhouse gases by 83% based on 2005 levels. That number is science fiction. That is especially true considering the population of the earth will likely double by then. However, the sugar mill by products could be turned to ethanol if it wasn't for this bill which is designed to make carbon and fart traders the new Exxon-Mobil (al gore). The bottom line, bio-diesel and ethanol are a no go under the Cap and Trade bill.

07-03-2009, 12:14 PM	#195
RollsUp Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: AK USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,766	A fixed price of $7.05 here in western AK. No need to pay for any this month now. Why? The town is officially out of gas until the fuel barge arrives at about end of this month. Heating fuel is getting pretty low too. Lucky it's summer now.