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06-24-2009, 10:26 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
And things were worse before they took prayer out of schools?
And out of government?

Things are better now?
This is a pretty disingenuous argument... I'm pretty sure you realize that even if the incredible vague category of "things" can be proved to be demonstrably/objectively worse than they were before the 60s & 70s cases on school prayer, there's no provable correlation between the two.

While the bible/Christianity have indeed produced a whole range of "good works," it's also produced the vast majority of the bloodshed in the Western world, and been used to justify all kinds of horrible human suffering.

QuoteQuote:
Funny how a good part of our laws are based on the bible
I'm pretty sure this isn't really true, except in a very broad sense. And anyway, much of western civilization is based on the bible—which is, for the most part, an unfortunate roadblock that it's taking centuries to get over.

edit: oh, hey... over 1,000 posts!

06-24-2009, 10:39 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Gary, it's real hard to compete when your competitor can just dole out more money to cover the loss. If they can't print it they will just raise your taxes. Either way it's a lose-lose. They can't run the VA and take care of our Vets. That's just a small microcosm of the project.

Want to lower health care costs? Stop the stupid frivolous lawsuits so malpractice isn't so high.
QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Gary, 38% of the people that do not have coverage make over $50,000/year and a got portion of them make over $70,000. It is a situation where for whatever reason they choose not to purchase insurance. Apparently another 10% would be illegal anyway.

Edit: Our system needs work. How ever, our actual medical system is quite good. Any one that says otherwise is joking themselves. However, I don't think our government over seen by dipshits and 2-bit lawyers is they way we need to go. Just because some one gets elected to the House, Senate, or White House doesn't make them an instant genius and an expert in all things.

The Government has screwed up Social Security and Medicare and we think they should be allowed to expand. It will never work as long as there are dipsticks and crooks like Pelosi, Waxman, Frank, Alcyee Hastings, Wrangel etc. on Capital Hill. What happened to Gore's "lock box" for example? What about LBJ pulling the famous rabbit out of the hat to balance the budget when in fact he did it by raiding the SS trust fund? It has been done a few times since then also.

The government doesn't generate resources, it re-allocates them.

If you two want to carry on with an insurance person who's one purpose is to make a profit by find an excuse not to pay for your healthcare between you and your doctor, that's fine. Just keep your ostrich politics to yourselves.
06-24-2009, 11:59 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
If you two want to carry on with an insurance person who's one purpose is to make a profit by find an excuse not to pay for your healthcare between you and your doctor, that's fine. Just keep your ostrich politics to yourselves.
Then keep yours to yourself.

I'm sure your nursery's sole purpose is to give away plants to the public so the Bay Area has prettier yards. I think their is a difference in "fair" profit and gouging. The gov can gouge easier than a private company. But hey, lets go ahead and close down the insurance companies because I don't like paying those bastards anymore than I do the gov. Lets shut down automotive insurance as well and let the gov get into auto insurance while we are at it.
06-24-2009, 12:05 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Then keep yours to yourself.

I'm sure your nursery's sole purpose is to give away plants to the public so the Bay Area has prettier yards. I think their is a difference in "fair" profit and gouging. The gov can gouge easier than a private company. But hey, lets go ahead and close down the insurance companies because I don't like paying those bastards anymore than I do the gov. Lets shut down automotive insurance as well and let the gov get into auto insurance while we are at it.
Blue, it's
QuoteQuote:
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need



Last edited by graphicgr8s; 06-24-2009 at 12:53 PM.
06-24-2009, 03:58 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Then keep yours to yourself.

I'm sure your nursery's sole purpose is to give away plants to the public so the Bay Area has prettier yards. I think their is a difference in "fair" profit and gouging. The gov can gouge easier than a private company. But hey, lets go ahead and close down the insurance companies because I don't like paying those bastards anymore than I do the gov. Lets shut down automotive insurance as well and let the gov get into auto insurance while we are at it.
The nursery industry isn't very green, I'll be the first one to say that, but I do what I can to try and change it from the inside.
Comparing health insurance and car insurance is comparing apples to fig newtons (I'm fed up with the apples to oranges cliché).
At least with universal healthcare, everyone would have access to preventative care and no one would be excluded because treating them doesn't turn a profit.
06-24-2009, 04:04 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
The nursery industry isn't very green, I'll be the first one to say that, but I do what I can to try and change it from the inside.
Comparing health insurance and car insurance is comparing apples to fig newtons (I'm fed up with the apples to oranges cliché).
At least with universal healthcare, everyone would have access to preventative care and no one would be excluded because treating them doesn't turn a profit.
It is a fair analogy and you well know it is. The government isn't going to spend as much on preventative care as you think. That's the same arse-clowns that tried to declare ketchup as a vegetable in the school lunch program.

If AIG was too big to fail, why is BCBS and all of the insurance companies not? Those people will be out of work. We need to fix the system we have and not replace it with something a bunch of clowns in DC come up with.

You never answered the question whether or not the nursery should be trying to turn a profit or just break even or just run in red ink.
06-24-2009, 05:02 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
It is a fair analogy and you well know it is. The government isn't going to spend as much on preventative care as you think. That's the same arse-clowns that tried to declare ketchup as a vegetable in the school lunch program.

If AIG was too big to fail, why is BCBS and all of the insurance companies not? Those people will be out of work. We need to fix the system we have and not replace it with something a bunch of clowns in DC come up with.

You never answered the question whether or not the nursery should be trying to turn a profit or just break even or just run in red ink.
The government isn't going to spend anything on preventative care by the looks of it, there's too many of those self serving bastards in the pockets of the insurance companies for universal healthcare to be on the table.

Yes the nursery should make a profit, nothing wrong with profit, greed is the problem.
The nursery is independent, much of the stock is sourced fairly locally, and the profits stay local.

06-24-2009, 05:03 PM   #23
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And no, it wasn't a fair analogy, if people were born with wheels instead of arms and legs, it would have been a fair analogy.
06-24-2009, 06:48 PM   #24
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OK if you really want to fight this argument...discuss it with me. I worked in the Health Insurance industry and I can argue this point all day long.
06-24-2009, 06:58 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hey Elwood Quote
OK if you really want to fight this argument...discuss it with me. I worked in the Health Insurance industry and I can argue this point all day long.
Just chime in whenever you want. Don't wait for an invitation. It wont come
06-24-2009, 07:46 PM   #26
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Before you start saying anything about national health care being good or bad you need to watch the 20/20 report on health care in America. It's six parts. I say, if you're not willing to watch these videos and getting some facts first then you're opinion means nothing.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEXFUbSbg1I

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsEAVbCkMM&feature=related

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=refrYKq9tZQ&feature=related

Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzhiG0dcwN8&feature=related

Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsp_Jh5EIT0&feature=related

Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_KCLm9cekU&feature=related
06-24-2009, 08:43 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hey Elwood Quote
Before you start saying anything about national health care being good or bad you need to watch the 20/20 report on health care in America. It's six parts. I say, if you're not willing to watch these videos and getting some facts first then you're opinion means nothing.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEXFUbSbg1I

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsEAVbCkMM&feature=related

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=refrYKq9tZQ&feature=related

Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzhiG0dcwN8&feature=related

Part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsp_Jh5EIT0&feature=related

Part 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_KCLm9cekU&feature=related
All this reinforces what I already knew. Thank you for posting.
George
06-24-2009, 09:15 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
All this reinforces what I already knew. Thank you for posting.
George
I'll second that, but for different reasons obviously.
06-24-2009, 09:21 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
I'll second that, but for different reasons obviously.
Yep. Government run anything sucks. So does CNN
06-24-2009, 09:47 PM   #30
Damn Brit
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Yep. Government run anything sucks. So does CNN
I did say different reasons. The guy is a big fan of the free market and also a libertarian. Those people don't aren't exactly overflowing with the milk of human kindness. Healthcare should be a basic human right IMO, no system is going to be perfect but including everyone would be a start. I do however believe that people who don't do as much as they can to protect their own health and wellbeing (diet, exercise etc.) should be penalised.
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