Brand Snobbery? Is it just here or everywhere?

**Ash** · 06-26-2009, 04:20 AM

at Cosmo:
Not necessarily.
As a lot of the pro and more serious amateurs of this forum would attest, some have invested in other systems also, and use their Canons or Nikons for different applications.

Doesn't mean they've bowed down to marketing/peer pressure for going that way.
It's mainly personal preference...

pingflood · 06-26-2009, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by Cosmo

This is kinda a 2 way street, while alot of Canikon users look down on Pentax,I often do the same thing to them. I see people with Nikon D40 and Canon 450D, and my first instinct is to think, "oh, they're just went down to the store and got whatever the sales guy told em, they probably don't know much about photography." Where as anyone with a Pentax or Olympus, I think, they didn't buy into the big brands, therefore they must know abit about cameras/not be idiots.

Honestly, it seems like a lot of people ended up with Pentax because it was the cheapest kit they could find on sale/clearance. Not always a well researched decision.

That said, isn't making a purchase decision based on whether a company is big/successful equally ridiculous whatever that decision is? Is "I didn't buy Nikon because everyone has one" just as silly as "I bought Nikon because everyone has one"?

Mike Cash · 06-26-2009, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by GLXLR

Well he is a respectable man with a nice job as a VP at a bank.

By all accounts Ted Bundy was a wonderfully charming and thoroughly likable man....when he wasn't "working".

He was "amazed" by your photos....until he found out what brand of camera took them. That doesn't lead you to question his intellectual consistency, perspicacity, judgment, integrity, and just plain old-fashioned common sense?

Pentax is the mountain oysters of cameras. People who eat mountain oysters also generally like them....until they find out what they are.

Ratmagiclady · 06-26-2009, 05:56 AM

I don't think Pentax gets *snobs,* in the strictest sense of the word: there's just not enough money to be spent, particularly not conspicuously.

Maybe some *elitists,* but snobs? Snobs are going to go for the expensive thing, pretty much by definition, so that type are not going to tend to end up with Pentaxes.

Niki · 06-26-2009, 06:39 AM

Recently, I had an opposite reaction from a Canon user. We were shooting a wedding (she, the primary photog, me the secondary as a favor to the groom).
I took my laptop (cuz tha's howz i roll...ha) and uploaded some photos right from the memory card.
She came over and her jaw dropped.

Then she tells me that her aunt has a Pentax and that "her photos come out perfect right out of the camera".
She wants to know how I like my camera (my sweet little k100d), because she wants to get a new one and I told her it wasn't so much the camera body, but the prime lens I was using. (at this point, she looked confused and I started wondering how much she knew about photography and I don't know much myself lol)

I then told her that her Xsi was a great camera too, I have friends with them that take great pics.
She said, in a defeated tone, I might add..."Yeah, I suppose so, maybe I should go trade this one in for the XTi or a Pentax."

She was using a kit lens on the Xsi and on-board flash and seemed like she was under the impression that if someone has a "good" camera that they take "good" photos right out of the box.

I don't get many snobs looking down their nose at my camera or maybe I just ignore them if they do?

mk07138 · 06-26-2009, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by Mike Cash

Pentax is the mountain oysters of cameras. People who eat mountain oysters also generally like them....until they find out what they are.

Ok. . . . . . . . I don't think I'll ever be able to look at my camera the same way again after this comparison. . . . . . .

Haha, I may be missing out, but since I already know what Mountain oysters are, I don't plan on ever trying them

mk07138 · 06-26-2009, 06:41 AM

Of course there are lots of gross things out there that people eat, but for whatever reason, reproductive organs, eyeballs, and other viscera are on my do not want to ever try list.

pingflood · 06-26-2009, 07:05 AM

Primary wedding photographer using a kit lens and onboard flash? Yikes.

I do see a lot of "photographers" advertising on Craigslist and such offering to do weddings for $250... I guess that's what you end up with.

Ratmagiclady · 06-26-2009, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by Cosmo

This is kinda a 2 way street, while alot of Canikon users look down on Pentax,I often do the same thing to them. I see people with Nikon D40 and Canon 450D, and my first instinct is to think, "oh, they're just went down to the store and got whatever the sales guy told em, they probably don't know much about photography." Where as anyone with a Pentax or Olympus, I think, they didn't buy into the big brands, therefore they must know abit about cameras/not be idiots.

Aren't alot of us in this thread implying that we are better informed and not brainwashable idiots because we shoot Pentax.

I think it's important *not* to look down on folks with entry-level cameras as such, for what it's worth to be concerned about who's what brand-identified tribe or whatever:

Though, actually, if I glance up at the Today show, I can see some lady sporting like a 5d and not holding the camera properly or level, (One might guess she's a non-photog who occasionally gets handed something) and a guy who looks like he knows what he's doing with some smaller Canon that might be the new Rebel with the video. Having done a fair amount of teaching, I tend to notice things like how someone's handling what they've got, what lens they're using, especially for the situation, etc.

I think it's understandable to be a little resentful when some person with no apparent idea what they're doing compares brand names and does the social equivalent of 'Canikon r the best, n00b. I r the best, l0s3r, LOL.'

Yah. right. That type won't be learning anything from me, today.

I've kind of got a thick skin from being a Canon FD shooter back when that marked one as the 'poor cousins' in a lot of areas... and I knew from school what brands were worth, ..I was already teaching and working in the trade with whatever I could get hold of while the rich kid was holding aloof from everyone else and shooting bad yearbook photos with a thousand dollars worth of F3 kit.

The people I respected could be shooting anything, had a love of photography itself and would teach you for the sake of teaching (or having a little assistance and enthusiasm around if the work had become a grind

) There'd also be people who knew what they were doing who'd tend to treat certain gear as a badge of station: a sign you were 'serious' or making money, (thus competition?

) or be like, 'You should be shooting Nikon, honey' ...maybe some kind of compliment, in their world, I dunno.

Sometimes you find some people with expensive kit who are quite a bit intimidated by their own stuff. So what if it's 'just what some salesman sold em?' They might have told that salesman 'I want to learn photography,' so there's no need for anyone to get defensive.

Actually, it seems a number of the college kids in the artsy crowd around here are sporting like Canon S5 bridge cameras, you can see there's an eye at work while a lot of the kids with the DSLRs are often kind of absorbed in the camera itself. (Though it does seem a lot of the art programs out there may be disdaining the technical end a bit *too* much.

Just a few thoughts on all this.

GLXLR · 06-26-2009, 07:23 AM

Apparently I am going to go "shoot" some kids with him at a daycare next week. Let's see who takes the better photos!

Also looked at his portraits (which were said to be AMAZING), but they looked exactly the same and plain. Each shot was a forwards shot, nothing unexpected, nothing unique, anything a P+S with DOF could do, and although my shots aren't that great either, I just started my new hobby and I will get much better while hes been shooting (figured out he use to have a K1000 and hated it) for a long time.

mk07138 · 06-26-2009, 07:39 AM

I think with photography we sometimes get into an "Emperor's New Clothes" kind of situation. Outside of the super successful professional crowd many amateurs get told by friends and acquaintances that their photographs are "amazing" when really they're nice but nothing truly special (and I think some of the pros get this too). I know I get that from friends on a regular basis but I look at my own work and see a start, but lots and lots of room to grow.

Sounds like this photographer with the D700 is parading around nude and nobody wants to tell him.

melander · 06-26-2009, 08:03 AM

When I picked Pentax K20D to be my first dslr I read canon, nikon and pentax forums for 2 months, learning about pros and cons, Learned how to take photos in theory (all the dof, exposure, iso, shuttertime, composion etc).

And after all those endless hours of reading (seriusly large amount of hours) I picked pentax, not because it was the best priced one, but because it had what I wanted in a camera.

I have no problem with people using canon, nikon, sony, oly et al. What i dont understand is those that stick to the kit lens, for everything. I shoot alot of concerts, alot of them in dark enviorments. And I get some good shots. f/2.8 and iso 1600 is what I use. Then you chat with others that are there taking photos, they are disapointed that they dont get good pictures, they are using f/5.6, the fastest on the lens, iso 400, they dont know what ISO do, shutterspeed "why does that mather". "but im using popup flash" ye, 20 feet away from your target wont make much good.

But then again, I got a tiny bit of LBA up my ass... :O (Should I get the K-7 or zeiss 85/1.4... spinning through my head all day long atm)

Serius large amount of people out there think I get good shots because of my camera and not from reading, testing, trial and error.

Alphonse · 06-26-2009, 08:23 AM

Hi GLXLR,

I understand your point of view and I m upset about the snobbery of some of the Nikon/Canon users.

I own 2 entry level cameras of Pentax - K100D & K200D.
I ve reached each time to amaze the others because of the shots quality I can get out from my cameras.

The prime lenses of Pentax are among the best ones in this world.

The camera brand doesn't make the photographer.

During the wedding of a girl friend, all of her relatives own a Nikon camera. Even the hired photographer used a D3 Nikon.

One of her relatives said me if it wasn't difficult to be with a Pentax camera.

Finally, when all the shots were seen by my friend, I ve received a big congratulation for my shots. She said me that I have an unusual view and that I am very gifted. She told I took several shots that no others got with their flat zoom lenses.

I saw the professional shots, the guy compensated the quality by the quantity.

It was a fight between his Nikon D3 + Nikon 24-70 f2.8 and my Pentax K200D + 43mm Limited f1.9 .

He delivers 470 shots and I gave 70 of my shots.

No, the brand doesn't make the man! At least I can confirm you that.

VaughnA · 06-26-2009, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by mk07138

I think with photography we sometimes get into an "Emperor's New Clothes" kind of situation. Outside of the super successful professional crowd many amateurs get told by friends and acquaintances that their photographs are "amazing" when really they're nice but nothing truly special (and I think some of the pros get this too). I know I get that from friends on a regular basis but I look at my own work and see a start, but lots and lots of room to grow. .

I agree on that point. All of my friends think that my photos are great, I thought so too. But after coming here and to photosig and submitting I'm learning that they are decent but nothing special. BUT, I'm learning and I'm getting better all the time. I do think that having a nice camera helps with the photos as well as the motivation to do so.

As for brand snobbery it's everywhere and in every hobby. I'm a cyclist, I love to zoom past the guys on $5000 carbon fiber wonderbikes on my steel singlespeed with the monkey on the handlebars.

**rparmar** · 06-26-2009, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by imtheguy

I'm apologize for the segway but maybe other new readers don't know the term or maybe you down under guys just like to confuse me.

Now if only Dean Kamen would apologise for it as well.

Originally posted by GLXLR

Well he is a respectable man with a nice job as a VP at a bank.

You're saying you know a banker with a nasty personality? No way!

06-26-2009, 08:23 AM	#73
Alphonse New Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brie Comte Robert, France Posts: 13	Hi GLXLR, I understand your point of view and I m upset about the snobbery of some of the Nikon/Canon users. I own 2 entry level cameras of Pentax - K100D & K200D. I ve reached each time to amaze the others because of the shots quality I can get out from my cameras. The prime lenses of Pentax are among the best ones in this world. The camera brand doesn't make the photographer. During the wedding of a girl friend, all of her relatives own a Nikon camera. Even the hired photographer used a D3 Nikon. One of her relatives said me if it wasn't difficult to be with a Pentax camera. Finally, when all the shots were seen by my friend, I ve received a big congratulation for my shots. She said me that I have an unusual view and that I am very gifted. She told I took several shots that no others got with their flat zoom lenses. I saw the professional shots, the guy compensated the quality by the quantity. It was a fight between his Nikon D3 + Nikon 24-70 f2.8 and my Pentax K200D + 43mm Limited f1.9 . He delivers 470 shots and I gave 70 of my shots. No, the brand doesn't make the man! At least I can confirm you that. Last edited by Alphonse; 06-26-2009 at 08:33 AM.

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06-26-2009, 04:20 AM	#61
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	at Cosmo: Not necessarily. As a lot of the pro and more serious amateurs of this forum would attest, some have invested in other systems also, and use their Canons or Nikons for different applications. Doesn't mean they've bowed down to marketing/peer pressure for going that way. It's mainly personal preference...

06-26-2009, 05:18 AM	#62
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by Cosmo This is kinda a 2 way street, while alot of Canikon users look down on Pentax,I often do the same thing to them. I see people with Nikon D40 and Canon 450D, and my first instinct is to think, "oh, they're just went down to the store and got whatever the sales guy told em, they probably don't know much about photography." Where as anyone with a Pentax or Olympus, I think, they didn't buy into the big brands, therefore they must know abit about cameras/not be idiots. Honestly, it seems like a lot of people ended up with Pentax because it was the cheapest kit they could find on sale/clearance. Not always a well researched decision. That said, isn't making a purchase decision based on whether a company is big/successful equally ridiculous whatever that decision is? Is "I didn't buy Nikon because everyone has one" just as silly as "I bought Nikon because everyone has one"?

06-26-2009, 05:37 AM	#63
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	Originally posted by GLXLR Well he is a respectable man with a nice job as a VP at a bank. By all accounts Ted Bundy was a wonderfully charming and thoroughly likable man....when he wasn't "working". He was "amazed" by your photos....until he found out what brand of camera took them. That doesn't lead you to question his intellectual consistency, perspicacity, judgment, integrity, and just plain old-fashioned common sense? Pentax is the mountain oysters of cameras. People who eat mountain oysters also generally like them....until they find out what they are.

06-26-2009, 05:56 AM	#64
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	I don't think Pentax gets snobs, in the strictest sense of the word: there's just not enough money to be spent, particularly not conspicuously. Maybe some elitists, but snobs? Snobs are going to go for the expensive thing, pretty much by definition, so that type are not going to tend to end up with Pentaxes.

06-26-2009, 06:39 AM	#65
Niki Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 244	Recently, I had an opposite reaction from a Canon user. We were shooting a wedding (she, the primary photog, me the secondary as a favor to the groom). I took my laptop (cuz tha's howz i roll...ha) and uploaded some photos right from the memory card. She came over and her jaw dropped. Then she tells me that her aunt has a Pentax and that "her photos come out perfect right out of the camera". She wants to know how I like my camera (my sweet little k100d), because she wants to get a new one and I told her it wasn't so much the camera body, but the prime lens I was using. (at this point, she looked confused and I started wondering how much she knew about photography and I don't know much myself lol) I then told her that her Xsi was a great camera too, I have friends with them that take great pics. She said, in a defeated tone, I might add..."Yeah, I suppose so, maybe I should go trade this one in for the XTi or a Pentax." She was using a kit lens on the Xsi and on-board flash and seemed like she was under the impression that if someone has a "good" camera that they take "good" photos right out of the box. I don't get many snobs looking down their nose at my camera or maybe I just ignore them if they do?

06-26-2009, 06:40 AM	#66
mk07138 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Frostburg Maryland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 151	Originally posted by Mike Cash Pentax is the mountain oysters of cameras. People who eat mountain oysters also generally like them....until they find out what they are. Ok. . . . . . . . I don't think I'll ever be able to look at my camera the same way again after this comparison. . . . . . . Haha, I may be missing out, but since I already know what Mountain oysters are, I don't plan on ever trying them

06-26-2009, 06:41 AM	#67
mk07138 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Frostburg Maryland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 151	Of course there are lots of gross things out there that people eat, but for whatever reason, reproductive organs, eyeballs, and other viscera are on my do not want to ever try list.

06-26-2009, 07:05 AM	#68
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Primary wedding photographer using a kit lens and onboard flash? Yikes. I do see a lot of "photographers" advertising on Craigslist and such offering to do weddings for $250... I guess that's what you end up with.

06-26-2009, 07:08 AM	#69
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Cosmo This is kinda a 2 way street, while alot of Canikon users look down on Pentax,I often do the same thing to them. I see people with Nikon D40 and Canon 450D, and my first instinct is to think, "oh, they're just went down to the store and got whatever the sales guy told em, they probably don't know much about photography." Where as anyone with a Pentax or Olympus, I think, they didn't buy into the big brands, therefore they must know abit about cameras/not be idiots. Aren't alot of us in this thread implying that we are better informed and not brainwashable idiots because we shoot Pentax. I think it's important not to look down on folks with entry-level cameras as such, for what it's worth to be concerned about who's what brand-identified tribe or whatever: Though, actually, if I glance up at the Today show, I can see some lady sporting like a 5d and not holding the camera properly or level, (One might guess she's a non-photog who occasionally gets handed something) and a guy who looks like he knows what he's doing with some smaller Canon that might be the new Rebel with the video. Having done a fair amount of teaching, I tend to notice things like how someone's handling what they've got, what lens they're using, especially for the situation, etc. I think it's understandable to be a little resentful when some person with no apparent idea what they're doing compares brand names and does the social equivalent of 'Canikon r the best, n00b. I r the best, l0s3r, LOL.' Yah. right. That type won't be learning anything from me, today. I've kind of got a thick skin from being a Canon FD shooter back when that marked one as the 'poor cousins' in a lot of areas... and I knew from school what brands were worth, ..I was already teaching and working in the trade with whatever I could get hold of while the rich kid was holding aloof from everyone else and shooting bad yearbook photos with a thousand dollars worth of F3 kit. The people I respected could be shooting anything, had a love of photography itself and would teach you for the sake of teaching (or having a little assistance and enthusiasm around if the work had become a grind ) There'd also be people who knew what they were doing who'd tend to treat certain gear as a badge of station: a sign you were 'serious' or making money, (thus competition? ) or be like, 'You should be shooting Nikon, honey' ...maybe some kind of compliment, in their world, I dunno. Sometimes you find some people with expensive kit who are quite a bit intimidated by their own stuff. So what if it's 'just what some salesman sold em?' They might have told that salesman 'I want to learn photography,' so there's no need for anyone to get defensive. Actually, it seems a number of the college kids in the artsy crowd around here are sporting like Canon S5 bridge cameras, you can see there's an eye at work while a lot of the kids with the DSLRs are often kind of absorbed in the camera itself. (Though it does seem a lot of the art programs out there may be disdaining the technical end a bit too much. Just a few thoughts on all this.

06-26-2009, 07:23 AM	#70
GLXLR Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sugar Land, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 684 Original Poster	Apparently I am going to go "shoot" some kids with him at a daycare next week. Let's see who takes the better photos! Also looked at his portraits (which were said to be AMAZING), but they looked exactly the same and plain. Each shot was a forwards shot, nothing unexpected, nothing unique, anything a P+S with DOF could do, and although my shots aren't that great either, I just started my new hobby and I will get much better while hes been shooting (figured out he use to have a K1000 and hated it) for a long time.

06-26-2009, 07:39 AM	#71
mk07138 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Frostburg Maryland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 151	I think with photography we sometimes get into an "Emperor's New Clothes" kind of situation. Outside of the super successful professional crowd many amateurs get told by friends and acquaintances that their photographs are "amazing" when really they're nice but nothing truly special (and I think some of the pros get this too). I know I get that from friends on a regular basis but I look at my own work and see a start, but lots and lots of room to grow. Sounds like this photographer with the D700 is parading around nude and nobody wants to tell him.

06-26-2009, 08:03 AM	#72
melander Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sweden, Umea Posts: 876	When I picked Pentax K20D to be my first dslr I read canon, nikon and pentax forums for 2 months, learning about pros and cons, Learned how to take photos in theory (all the dof, exposure, iso, shuttertime, composion etc). And after all those endless hours of reading (seriusly large amount of hours) I picked pentax, not because it was the best priced one, but because it had what I wanted in a camera. I have no problem with people using canon, nikon, sony, oly et al. What i dont understand is those that stick to the kit lens, for everything. I shoot alot of concerts, alot of them in dark enviorments. And I get some good shots. f/2.8 and iso 1600 is what I use. Then you chat with others that are there taking photos, they are disapointed that they dont get good pictures, they are using f/5.6, the fastest on the lens, iso 400, they dont know what ISO do, shutterspeed "why does that mather". "but im using popup flash" ye, 20 feet away from your target wont make much good. But then again, I got a tiny bit of LBA up my ass... :O (Should I get the K-7 or zeiss 85/1.4... spinning through my head all day long atm) Serius large amount of people out there think I get good shots because of my camera and not from reading, testing, trial and error.

06-26-2009, 09:00 AM	#74
VaughnA Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Virginia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,363	Originally posted by mk07138 I think with photography we sometimes get into an "Emperor's New Clothes" kind of situation. Outside of the super successful professional crowd many amateurs get told by friends and acquaintances that their photographs are "amazing" when really they're nice but nothing truly special (and I think some of the pros get this too). I know I get that from friends on a regular basis but I look at my own work and see a start, but lots and lots of room to grow. . I agree on that point. All of my friends think that my photos are great, I thought so too. But after coming here and to photosig and submitting I'm learning that they are decent but nothing special. BUT, I'm learning and I'm getting better all the time. I do think that having a nice camera helps with the photos as well as the motivation to do so. As for brand snobbery it's everywhere and in every hobby. I'm a cyclist, I love to zoom past the guys on $5000 carbon fiber wonderbikes on my steel singlespeed with the monkey on the handlebars.

06-26-2009, 09:02 AM	#75
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,823	Originally posted by imtheguy I'm apologize for the segway but maybe other new readers don't know the term or maybe you down under guys just like to confuse me. Now if only Dean Kamen would apologise for it as well. Originally posted by GLXLR Well he is a respectable man with a nice job as a VP at a bank. You're saying you know a banker with a nasty personality? No way!