[Driver3]

How out of whack is the fact that Vick's crimes involved animals and he got 2 years whereas Donte Stallworth killed a human being and he got 30 days?
Something stinks there. Of course Stallworth's crime happened in Florida, land of the loonies.

[Wheatfield]

as for his transgressions, this is not me being high and mighty, but the fact for me is simple. i don't condone what he did, but he did the punishment that the system deemed appropriate. any further punishment can and will be dealt with when he meets his maker, if you believe in that.

Did he do the punishment that the system deems appropriate or did he do the minimum punishment that he was able to bargain out of the system?
If it wasn't a famous football player, but rather someone who just had a mean streak and not enough money to pay for a high priced lawyer would he have gotten two years or ten?
Regarding the Hitler comparison, his actions only differ by degree, the mindset that created the action isn't different. One wonders how his actions would have escalated when he got bored with watching dogs killing each other. Would he have escalated to turning dog packs onto people for sport, for example?
Vick really needs to be removed from the gene pool. We don't need his kind passing on anything to future generations.

[ve2vfd]

Some think he's done his time, let him play

Others think he may have done his time but he blew it... go away quietly.

All the whining and complaining is meaningless. If people believe strongly in this, they have to do something about it. The bottom line here is hopefully the sports fans will let the team know about their displeasure by performing the only actions consumers can in a case like this:

- Not purchase game tickets or season passes
- Not purchase team merchandise (this is a big one, lots of $$$ involved)
- Not support the teams sponsors
- Letter writing campaign to the teams owners/management and the teams sponsors
- Letter writing campaign to TV station airing their games

Vick is a sad sad person...

Pat

[pingflood]

The guy's a sociopath and somebody capable of doing what he did would likely have no qualms doing something far worse, his only worry being getting caught doing it.

[Blue]

If a rapist does his time and gets out of prison, should he be allowed to lead a girl scout troop? Be the resident manager of a women's dorm at a University? Coach a women's basketball team?

[jmdeegan]

your analogy blue is not really applicable. if mike vick did the time for animal cruelty and then applied to work at the SPCA, that might work there. His job as a football player is not like a convicted sex offender working with his target market.

Wheat--no need to get in and speculate he got off because of his profession. I don't have the details of the case as fresh in my mind now as when they were happening, but that was the deal that the system gave him. The prosecution was happy with it, they made it, so it's not Mike Vick's fault that that was what was given him. If anything, the argument was made that he was being made an example of---the prosecutors I believe felt they had to be very careful, very thorough and do everything they could to make sure it didn't look like a witchhunt.

Bottom line is, he served the time he had to serve and was released. As others have said, if you dislike that fact, you need to go do something about it-at this point, since he was released, it would be lobbying for stronger laws on the books, longer prison sentences, etc.

He served close to two years. He lost a nine figure contract, and likely just as much in possible endorsements. He did, afterall, need to file for bankruptcy protection. You could argue that he potentially cost himself $200,000,000 or more. On top of the time served, and the fact he will have this follow him forever (and rightly so)...you tell me what other person convicted of dog fighting has ever lost more? Probably none.

And seriously, i think saying hitler and vick differ only by degrees is a massive and irresponsible reach. Hitler chose to terminate over 10 million people. Vick was an idiot, fell in love with an ugly underground "sport" that is rampant in America and was caught and dealt with. You cannot say the mindset is the same-Hitler despised entire races (even though he himself was neither blonde haired nor blue eyes, among other issues). Michael Vick, at least once or twice, blamed his love of dog fighting as a cultural or societal thing that those he hung around with did. Tremendous difference there. Had Vick ever said, or been shown to believe, that he fought and killed dogs because he despised them...that's different, but it's also never been said.

I am not trying to defend him, I am not condoning what he did. I am, however, willing to allow him a second chance to see if he really did change his ways. I don't have to like him or trust him to provide him that opportunity. I just think a lot of the anti-vick talk goes too far to the extreme (ie, any and all comparisons to hitler, or even mentioning them in the same discussion).

There are other pro athletes who have done as bad or worse then Vick, but who recieve little fanfare, for whatever reason. Pedro Martinez enjoys the sport of cockfighting. There is a member of the St Louis Rams who is on his 2nd or 3rd DUI, with the first resulting in the death of an innocent woman. A lot fly under the radar, or barely get a day or two of a mention simply because it's an offensive lineman versus the highest paid player in the game. I get the need for a poster-boy, but as Pat said, if you feel that strongly, you stop buying Eagles gear, you don't support the team, you stop watching the games, you write letters (to the team, to Vick, to lawmakers to fight for better laws/penalties).

[Leaf Fan]

I'm not a big football fan, but to let someone convicted of such crimes have the privilege of playing a sport for ungodly sums of money seems skewed to me.

Vick is a douche-bag who should be put in a room full of dogs he trained to fight and be aggressive and see how he makes out.

[Blue]

your analogy blue is not really applicable. if mike vick did the time for animal cruelty and then applied to work at the SPCA, that might work there. His job as a football player is not like a convicted sex offender working with his target market.

. . .

When teenagers start wearing jerseys with his number on them, get back to me on that.

[jmdeegan]

They are. but it still does not mean your analogy works

a rapist working with women is not the same as a dog fighter working in the NFL. its not.

im not saying you should be happy about it, or not dislike it. but you are on one hand saying someone convicted of a crime against women, should not be able to work with potential victims. i agree. makes sense

but then you say mike vick, convicted of harming dogs, shouldn't be allowed to play football, a sport in which no dogs play.

hence, your disconnect, which i am calling into question. im not telling you he should be allowed to play...just that your analogy doesn't fit what you are trying to support at all.

[Blue]

They are. but it still does not mean your analogy works

a rapist working with women is not the same as a dog fighter working in the NFL. its not.

. . .

It sends a message to boys that his behavior is "cool" in some sort of way. Obviously the analogy parted your hair. I didn't say Vick was a rapist. I was comparing the situation of a potential role model for millions of youth out there potentially being influenced by this guy.

Its too bad there aren't some guys left like Reggie White that would "prey err . . pray" for him on the field.

Edit: Would you want a sadistic maniac like this dating your daughter or grand daughter or niece? If this guy fools around and wins a super bowl, his negative role model factor can go up exponentially.

[DanLoc78]

Did he do the punishment that the system deems appropriate or did he do the minimum punishment that he was able to bargain out of the system?
If it wasn't a famous football player, but rather someone who just had a mean streak and not enough money to pay for a high priced lawyer would he have gotten two years or ten?
Regarding the Hitler comparison, his actions only differ by degree, the mindset that created the action isn't different. One wonders how his actions would have escalated when he got bored with watching dogs killing each other. Would he have escalated to turning dog packs onto people for sport, for example?
Vick really needs to be removed from the gene pool. We don't need his kind passing on anything to future generations.

Hearsay from radio...maximum penalty was 24 months, he did 23 and lost over $100 million. I'm not trying to defend the man, but I don't think he received any leniency for being an NFL star as so many others have.

[DanLoc78]

Its too bad there aren't some guys left like Reggie White that would "prey err . . pray" for him on the field.

I guarantee there are still some of these guys playing, with regards to prey...

[Blue]

Hearsay from radio...maximum penalty was 24 months, he did 23 and lost over $100 million. I'm not trying to defend the man, but I don't think he received any leniency for being an NFL star as so many others have.

Pete Rose never broke any laws, yet he got banned from base ball for violation ML policy and rules.

I think that is where some are missing the debate here. It isn't whether or not he served time and lost money. Its about the gambling, the brutality and integrity of the game. Vick was an organizer and gambling. If he were in a NFC championship game or super bowl, how much would he charge to shave points or throw a game?

[jmdeegan]

It sends a message to boys that his behavior is "cool" in some sort of way. Obviously the analogy parted your hair. I didn't say Vick was a rapist. I was comparing the situation of a potential role model for millions of youth out there potentially being influenced by this guy.

Its too bad there aren't some guys left like Reggie White that would "prey err . . pray" for him on the field.

Edit: Would you want a sadistic maniac like this dating your daughter or grand daughter or niece? If this guy fools around and wins a super bowl, his negative role model factor can go up exponentially.

if that was your intended analogy, then it really wasn't too clear. you would have been better served just stating that as opposed to beating around the bush. mentoring girl scouts is not equal to playing in the nfl. i never viewed an athlete as a role model, i will teach my children never to view an athlete as one either. parents should be role models. i know there is that problem where kids idolize athletes, thats an entirely different discussion altogether.

actually, your points are really all over the place. i never said you said he was a rapist. i said if you want to state rapists should not work with women (agreed), then vick should not work in the nfl (disagree). it wasn't clearly a role model analogy.i saw it as a work/interaction analogy. and while i understand you not wanting him as a role model, if anything, a reformed mike vick, under supervision, could actually BE a good role model because of his experiences. if he is truly sorry for what he did and wants to make amends....

he did his time. the legal system decided that. thats our system, like it or not.

i never said i liked the guy. i wouldn't let him dog sit any dogs i ever owned. i'd never want him near dogs again. but i have no beef with him trying to earn a living, provided that living does not involve animals.

relative to merchandise, already his sales were doing well, per a philly paper's report (several thousand dollars on a non-game weekend, 2 days after the signing). its going to sell, whether you like it or i like it. what the eagles and vick should do, or should have done, was to note than a percentage of all vick merch sales go to the SPCA or the Humane Society. Or even all Eagles merch for the year, a percentage. thats big bucks considering the eagles are one of the top sellers year in and year out.

and you choose to focus on the negative. I actually will spin it another way. here is someone who screwed up royally. he claims to be full of remorse-whether you believe it, whether you think he's sorry for the crime or only that he got caught is not relevant. he has aligned himself with someone the entire NFL respects and who is a very classy and upstanding person in Tony Dungy, who is mentoring him. He is the highest profile person related to dog fighting. he did the crime, he did the time, now he has a chance to be a role model to show those same kids you worry about that it ISNT cool to do what he did. Because they can see how far he fell, how much he lost. He will NEVER recoup that lost money, not in salary, not in endorsements. He could win the Eagles a super bowl this year and it won't undo anything he did.

and no, i would not let someone like this near my daughter. i keep telling her mother she's going to the convent as soon as she can

FWIW, to the people really directing the anger or displeasure at the Philadelphia Eagles, it is misguided. If anything you should be focused on the entire NFL, the league offices in NYC specifically, because if the Eagles didn't sign him, there were many other teams prepared to sign him. If you really did not/do not want him playing football, then you can still send comments to Roger Goodell and the NFL, because Vick's suspension to actually play in games has not yet been lifted, and it is an indefinite suspension. The only concrete timeframe is that a decision will be made by week 6/week 7, and for all we know the decision could be to suspend him the rest of the year or longer. No one knows. But that Mike Vick can possibly play football this year is not the fault of the Philadelphia Eagles. We have only the NFL to blame for that.

[jmdeegan]

And yes, I agree (even as an Eagles fan)...there are plenty of dirty players on the defensive side of the ball, many who are animal lovers. Never know what will happen on the field