Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-17-2009, 06:43 AM   #16
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
And evolution is fact? Look around my friend and if you actually look and observe you will see that evolution is impossible. Both from a scientific standpoint and a natural one.

Again, it's freedom OF not freedom FROM.
HOLY CRAP. impossible? according to science, as far as I understand it nothing is completely impossible, just as nothing can be outright fact. as we cannot know that we have all the answers. so do you care to explain how evolution is impossible? and as science uses the laws of nature, (as we understand them) scientific is natural. how do you make a separation of the two?

wow, the more comments I read from you the more you seem to just be talking or would it be typing? out of your ass.

:ugh:

08-17-2009, 06:51 AM   #17
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 15,903
Freedom of religion means you get to go to the church of your choice, pray the way you want to, etc. Freedom from religion means I don't have to tolerate your religious beliefs being shoved down my (or my kids if I had them) throat(s).
You say if the person was a Muslim, nothing would have been said, so if you want to push your religion on people, does your Muslim neighbor have the right to keep his wife and daughters as slaves in their own home because the local Mullah says it's Alla's way? Does the Hindu living across the street have the right to stone his daughter to death for making eyes at the boy with the pretty green eyes on the next block because the Veda allows it (note I don't know if it does).
Do we put the Catholics in charge and go back to the days of the Inquisition? Oh wait, Guantonamo Bay is doing that already.

Pretty much all the big evils in the world have their roots seated deeply in religion of one form or another, and frankly, the world would be a better place if religions in general were outlawed and their public practitioners lobotomized to finish off what their belief system started.
08-17-2009, 06:53 AM   #18
graphicgr8s
Guest




If you look around you see that things actually devolve into the lowest form that can adapt and survive according to its surroundings. Adaption to environment isn't evolution. To think a human with reasoning abilities (well in some cases anyway) can come from an ameoba is insane.
08-17-2009, 06:57 AM   #19
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote

Again, it's freedom OF not freedom FROM.
your twisting the the statement to suit your beliefs, even if I wasn't an atheist id call this sentiment pure bullshit.

so I should be required by law to be religious? by the way, a lot of Christians don't consider their beliefs to be religious, nor their being Christians being a part of an organized religion. its just this type of close-minded view that causes problems in my opinion.

08-17-2009, 07:06 AM   #20
graphicgr8s
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
your twisting the the statement to suit your beliefs, even if I wasn't an atheist id call this sentiment pure bullshit.

so I should be required by law to be religious? by the way, a lot of Christians don't consider their beliefs to be religious, nor their being Christians being a part of an organized religion. its just this type of close-minded view that causes problems in my opinion.
Even during the time of my life when I was an atheist I still held this view of the 1st Amendment. Being a Christian has not altered it. Freedom OF not FROM.

No you're not required to be religious. When I was an atheist and prayer was held I just didn't do anything. I just observed. I didn't bow my head, I didn't pray.
08-17-2009, 07:11 AM   #21
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Even during the time of my life when I was an atheist I still held this view of the 1st Amendment. Being a Christian has not altered it. Freedom OF not FROM.

No you're not required to be religious. When I was an atheist and prayer was held I just didn't do anything. I just observed. I didn't bow my head, I didn't pray.
so again, I should be required by law to be religious? yea that sure is conservative government... 'freedom of' in no way represents a choice of having or not having a religion. it only represents the idea that you can choose your own without the government telling you that you cant. your twisting the words to fit your beliefs.
08-17-2009, 07:19 AM   #22
graphicgr8s
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
so again, I should be required by law to be religious? yea that sure is conservative government... 'freedom of' in no way represents a choice of having or not having a religion. it only represents the idea that you can choose your own without the government telling you that you cant. your twisting the words to fit your beliefs.
How would you be required to be religious? Being an atheist you don't have to believe in anything.

08-17-2009, 07:24 AM   #23
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
How would you be required to be religious? Being an atheist you don't have to believe in anything.
well if I am not free to choose not having a religion, then that would in itself mean that I am by law to be required to have a religion no?

being a conscious human being means I don't have to believe in anything. being an atheist means I reject the idea of gods. and just for clarification believing in god(s) does not mean you are religious. this is the distinction a growing number of Christians are making.
08-17-2009, 07:55 AM   #24
graphicgr8s
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
well if I am not free to choose not having a religion, then that would in itself mean that I am by law to be required to have a religion no?

being a conscious human being means I don't have to believe in anything. being an atheist means I reject the idea of gods. and just for clarification believing in god(s) does not mean you are religious. this is the distinction a growing number of Christians are making.
How did I know you were jerking my chain? You're in a debating mood today. Good.

Hey we've both kept it fun and interesting to this point. I am going to ask the moderators to shut it down though.
08-17-2009, 07:58 AM   #25
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
How did I know you were jerking my chain? You're in a debating mood today. Good.

Hey we've both kept it fun and interesting to this point. I am going to ask the moderators to shut it down though.

im confused? what are you talking about with jerking your chain?
08-17-2009, 08:00 AM   #26
graphicgr8s
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
im confused? what are you talking about with jerking your chain?
Government forcing you to have a religion. Come on you don't really believe that do you? You're doing this just to egg me on. Government can't force you to have any religion.
08-17-2009, 08:11 AM   #27
Veteran Member
slomojoe's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 788
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
If you look around you see that things actually devolve into the lowest form that can adapt and survive according to its surroundings. Adaption to environment isn't evolution. To think a human with reasoning abilities (well in some cases anyway) can come from an ameoba is insane.
Eh, sometimes it certainly looks that way.

Anyway, this is not the place for a remedial course on the scientific evidence for evolution. Let's just stipulate the undeniable fact that there is no significant opposition to it in the scientific community, and agree that on any given scientific subject, the scientific consensus (with the understanding of its tentative and provisional nature) is what kids should be properly taught in science classes.

As for the of/from first amendment thing, personal attitudes are not the point at all. The government cannot endorse any religion (or absence thereof, as in the Corbett case), because of its (the government's) inherent coercive power. It really does not matter if Christian children can theoretically just stand by while their Satanist teacher performs a devil-worshiping ritual in the classroom, or if the yell of "Allah is the greatest" comes from the school loudspeaker 5 times a day. Just like one cannot be asked to stand by when racist or other socially discriminatory comments are made by a government official, even though the same statements would be protected as free speech in other circumstances.
08-17-2009, 08:16 AM   #28
Veteran Member
Ratmagiclady's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: GA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,563
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
And evolution is fact? Look around my friend and if you actually look and observe you will see that evolution is impossible. Both from a scientific standpoint and a natural one.
If it were impossible we wouldn't have domesticated wheat or the flu or the common cold.

People who claim evolution is impossible are simply ignoring the real facts. It's not like playing billions of lottery numbers and expecting one astronomically-unlikely result to come up, as the anti-science says. Actually, evolution is pretty inevitable: structures that survive and replicate as can be observed in nature are the ones that survive and replicate. Increasing complexity over time is the natural result.

And there's a *lot* of time and a lot of instances. To claim it's 'impossible' is simply to appeal to the sense the sheer scale of time and amount of material in the universe is way too boggling to suit people's sense of a human scale.


QuoteQuote:
Again, it's freedom OF not freedom FROM.
This is nonsense on the face of it. How am I to have freedom *of* religion if I don't have freedom *from* the religions that believe it's OK to convert others by whatever means necessary?
08-17-2009, 08:20 AM   #29
Banned




Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H.
Posts: 5,979
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Government forcing you to have a religion. Come on you don't really believe that do you? You're doing this just to egg me on. Government can't force you to have any religion.
of course they cant. thats my whole point. but your view would suggest that, that is exactly what they are trying to enforce. since you seem to think freedom of means you have no choice in having one or not and only a choice in what kind.

I get the feeling you are trying to jerk my chain.
08-17-2009, 09:06 AM   #30
graphicgr8s
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
of course they cant. thats my whole point. but your view would suggest that, that is exactly what they are trying to enforce. since you seem to think freedom of means you have no choice in having one or not and only a choice in what kind.

I get the feeling you are trying to jerk my chain.
You are free to enjoy and worship any religion you want. Even atheism. But it is a fact government is slowly but surely eroding a the ability to pray. It's like what they are doing to smokers. Sure, it's legal to smoke. But where? Pretty soon you won't be able to smoke in your own home. They're already trying to ban smoking in your car.

Tolerance is always preached. Unless you're Christian. It's ok to trample them. Seamuis, my views haven't changed from what I believed when I was an atheist. I felt back then as I do now If you want to pray aloud go ahead. It was a minute or two out of my day It really wasn't a big deal. If "they" tried to convert me I simply said not interested. Now I may start a conversation about salvation but if the other person says not interested we talk about something else.
Closed Thread
« Les Paul | 32 years »

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
dinner
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:26 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top