[causey]

Dogs (and other non-human mammals) can be happy or sad. It's not only a matter of appearance. Now, being seen is a sort of appearing--but you can see a dog's expression of sadness, and in this sense its sadness appears to you (just as you can recognize a human being's sadness). This isn't the same sort of appearing as in "the trees appear sad to me." Indeed, that would be (possibly poetic) anthropomorphizing.

Compare a) "The crab is sad today" to b) "The chimp is sad today." The former would not make sense unless we admitted some anthropomorphizing (for whatever purpose, poetic, for instance), while the latter can be factually true or false.

So you're going to "know" based on your anthropomorphizing other species (appearing "happy" or "sad" or whatever). Yeah, that's a real solid approach.

[octavmandru]

Oh another typical thread on the matter by Americans. It's OK for us to kill pigs and cows, but look at the horrific act conducted by exotic peoples of the Orient!

Breeding just to kill and eat is OK, but hunting wild game is murder? WTF.

People can bring a horrible death to wild animals during an innocent hunting game. And more often than you think the meat is impossible to be eaten. So it's wasted.

The dolphins in this propaganda film got to live there lives free, and many of them likely had the chance to propagate up until the moment of their deaths. Compare that to the "controlled and bred" livestock that we consume in the US. They were brought to life JUST to become human meat. They live in a shit hole (many times literally) until they die, they are not allowed to propagate at their free will, they can't even ****ing take a walk when they want to. But that's OK, cuz they're controlled, bred, and they're stupid.

Oh, and btw, the doplphins in the film are nowhere near endangered. Get a clue, folks.

- do you need to bring them to an endangered status to stop?
Japan's plan is to kill 10 blue whales every year. Blue whale is an endangered species acc. to US

Necessary killing: you have millions to feed and you can't force everybody to give up on meat. Doctors say it's not healthy.
I accept the controlled breeding, since you eat what you breed, and breed what you want to eat. You breed your heard in shitty conditions, well, have a nice meal.

But killing wild animals to satisfy the gastronomical taste of a bunch of people, not their hunger or need for proteins is Murder.


Say you own a dog. One neighbor kills it in a horrible fashion, takes his head for a soup, and leaves the rest on your front porch.
I would like to see your objective approach then.

Pardon my harsh comparison.

[Gooshin]

Are you are vegetarian?. I'm not a hypocrite.

so you pick and choose?

you're not a hypocrite, you're just confused.

and no, i am not a vegitarian, however i primarily consume beef, so chickens and pigs get a free pass from me.

i most definetly dont eat dolphin meat, so my consumerism has no impact on the dolphin hunting industry.

[octavmandru]

so you pick and choose?

you're not a hypocrite, you're just confused.

I am confused. By your conclusion.

[pingflood]

Dogs (and other non-human mammals) can be happy or sad. It's not only a matter of appearance. Now, being seen is a sort of appearing--but you can see a dog's expression of sadness, and in this sense its sadness appears to you (just as you can recognize a human being's sadness). This isn't the same sort of appearing as in "the trees appear sad to me." Indeed, that would be (possibly poetic) anthropomorphizing.

Compare a) "The crab is sad today" to b) "The chimp is sad today." The former would not make sense unless we admitted some anthropomorphizing (for whatever purpose, poetic, for instance), while the latter can be factually true or false.

So if a dog curls its lips upwards, it's smiling, eh? What evidence do you have that a dog can be sad or happy? You just "know" it?

You ARE anthropomorphizing, just admit to it.

[Gooshin]

I am confused. By your conclusion.

stop the murder of dolphins!

why

because its bad

but what about cows

we need them though

ohh, but, whats the difference

well the cows we need, but the dolphins must live, they are different

i dont follow

i dont either, but it must be done, stop the hunting!

what about capital punishment, and humans

thats a different issue, we're not talking about that

but you are trying to make the dolphins seem.. more human

no i'm not, thats not what i'm doing at all

you're not

no i'm not

yes you are

wait, i am?

are you?

not sure

who's on third?

[RoxnDox]

I call "murder" any unnecessary killing.

Well, obviously you're free to call it what you want. It puts you in a minority, though. The people opposed to the unnecessary killing killing of the dolphins without calling it "murder", though, is probably either a majority or at least a MUCH larger minority.

And sometimes the deaths of animals are accidental, as when they get tangled in nets or struck by ship propellors or things like that. We, as a species, should do what we can to avoid these.

Now, when I go out into the Nebraska cornfields and shoot myself acouple of deer to put in my freezer, are you going to call that "murder" as well? I (like the overwhelming majority of hunters) take pains to ensure a clean kill and no lost animals suffering. I do my own butchering, and I can assure you we do not waste anything. Harvesting lean, healthy wild game for my own consumption may not be something you like, but it sure as hell ain't "murder".


Jim

[octavmandru]

.....

Wha?
Oh, yeah. I keep forgeting.
My bad

[Gooshin]

i once had a pet lobster when i was a kid

he died, i felt sad

that just puts a wrench in any argument in this thread..

people pick and choose who they want to live and who they want to die

they try to be humaine about it, they try to be polite about it, but very few people are honest to themselves about it.

its all or nothing in my eyes, either you go full vegan (or vegitarian, never knew the difference), or you accept the fact that humans like killing things and then eating them.

[octavmandru]

Well, obviously you're free to call it what you want. It puts you in a minority, though. The people opposed to the unnecessary killing killing of the dolphins without calling it "murder", though, is probably either a majority or at least a MUCH larger minority.

And sometimes the deaths of animals are accidental, as when they get tangled in nets or struck by ship propellors or things like that. We, as a species, should do what we can to avoid these.

Now, when I go out into the Nebraska cornfields and shoot myself acouple of deer to put in my freezer, are you going to call that "murder" as well? I (like the overwhelming majority of hunters) take pains to ensure a clean kill and no lost animals suffering. I do my own butchering, and I can assure you we do not waste anything. Harvesting lean, healthy wild game for my own consumption may not be something you like, but it sure as hell ain't "murder".


Jim

Jim,

I respect everybody's freedom.
My point is: we are a powerful race. We must respect less fortunate beings, plan our actions in this line and eat to live not live to eat.

Octav

[octavmandru]

i once had a pet lobster when i was a kid

he died, i felt sad

that just puts a wrench in any argument in this thread..

people pick and choose who they want to live and who they want to die

they try to be humaine about it, they try to be polite about it, but very few people are honest to themselves about it.

its all or nothing in my eyes, either you go full vegan (or vegitarian, never knew the difference), or you accept the fact that humans like killing things and then eating them.

was it tasty?

[Gooshin]

was it tasty?

i didnt eat him though

[octavmandru]

I knew you have a soul, after all.
I wouldn't eat my cat either.

W
Now, when I go out into the Nebraska cornfields and shoot myself acouple of deer to put in my freezer, are you going to call that "murder" as well? I (like the overwhelming majority of hunters) take pains to ensure a clean kill and no lost animals suffering. I do my own butchering, and I can assure you we do not waste anything. Harvesting lean, healthy wild game for my own consumption may not be something you like, but it sure as hell ain't "murder".


Jim

Actually you are doing them a favor. In NY for example the deer population got dangerously low. Through correct management and damn good luck they have the opposite problem. If hunters didn't thin the herd they would die of starvation. Me, I am not a hunter and don't particularly care for venison. My brother in law loves it but also loves the sport so he never uses a rifle. It's bow and arrow only for him. And nothing is wasted.

In some countries cat and dog are staple foods. They're OK barbecued I guess. Tastes like chicken.



I am kidding. I have never knowingly eaten cat or dog. Nor rabbit.

[Gooshin]

I knew you have a soul, after all.
I wouldn't eat my cat either.

that has nothing to do with accepting the fact that humans kill animals for food

i dont happen to eat dolphin

someone out there does, and wants it

so people hunt it

no one would hunt dolphin if no one was willing to pay them for it

ask them to stop wanting dolphin, not the fishermen who dont give a rats ass about what you think. If you could pay them a better salary doing something else they might just walk away.


your arguments are weak, like i said, you are picking and choosing whats humane and whats not based on a personal formula.

if you were born and raised somewhere in the orient, your perspective on food products would be different

so i regress, you're confused, so stop with the hand waving and silly rhetoric.