[octavmandru]

What do you think about this?
YouTube - Dolphin Massacre

Shall we continue murder or issue international laws against it?
Japan has a long tradition in killing cetaceans.

[lithos]

We could boycott all Japanese products.

Waitaminute...

[pingflood]

"Shall we continue murder or issue international laws against it?" sounds a lot like the old "Are you still beating your wife?"...

At what point does killing animals become "murder"? If killing a dolphin is murder, is killing a pilot whale murder? How about a cow? How about a rabbit? Chicken? Lobster?

While I personally strongly disagree with what is going on in this case (and if you want to be further horrified, check out the Faroe Islands' grindadráp which as far as I know still happens every year), one has to ask the question: at what point do animals (and I consider us animals) become smart or noble enough to be spared?

While I personally strongly disagree with what is going on in this case (and if you want to be further horrified, check out the Faroe Islands' grindadráp which as far as I know still happens every year), one has to ask the question: at what point do animals (and I consider us animals) become smart or noble enough to be spared?

I think the Faroe Islands are featured in the clip.


I don't think it's a question of being smart or noble. Many of these occurrences that so outrage people are carried out for traditions sake rather than need theses days.
We live in an eco system that is becoming more and more fragile. These people can no longer tell us to mind our own business because what they are doing has the potential to affect us in reality rather than just on an emotional level.


In answer to the original question, the laws exist but enforcement and adherence to them is carried out only to the extent of paying lip service. There are also the loopholes that Japan and Norway use by claiming scientific reasons for killing a certain number each year.

There is a documentary being shown at the moment called 'The Cove' which by all accounts has the potential to bring about real change. Many Japanese schoolchildren are given dolphin in their school meals. Dolphin meat tends to contain extremely high levels of Mercury.

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Last edited by Damn Brit; 09-03-2009 at 02:06 AM.

[octavmandru]

Do you really believe the smartness or nobleness mean something?

we are at the end of the food chain, right? Does this justify irrational mass killing?

I believe we should start questioning our habits. This is the eleventh hour .
The 20-th century was the one of the statistics:
"while the death of a human being is a tragedy, the death of 10'000 represent a statistic fact" - Iosif Vissarionovici Stalin.


I am well aware we are a society based on consumption. Actually, a decrease in consumption could trigger another economical crisis.
Could this be the issue here? Shouldn't we educate our children to save the resources instead of blending them in the society's consumerism black hole?

(ok, Gary beat me to it)

[pingflood]

octavmandru: I am in complete agreement that this is pretty horrifying, just wondering how upset people would be if it was cows or pigs instead of dolphins.

And if there's a difference, where's the line to be drawn?

[causey]

No need to draw a line. It's built into your organism. You simply know that (unlike dogs, for instance) fish can't be joyful. You know that flies don't feel pain, that dolphins can communicate among themselves and interact with people, etc. You don't need any cognitive act to determine your *right* attitudes towards living beings other than that of listening to your deeper self.

The other thing: I'm afraid we are past the 12th hour. And they've just made a BIG oil discovery in the Gulf...

octavmandru: I am in complete agreement that this is pretty horrifying, just wondering how upset people would be if it was cows or pigs instead of dolphins.

And if there's a difference, where's the line to be drawn?

[octavmandru]

Makes no difference if you slaughter a cow or a dolphin. I can't watch either. However, we breed cows and pigs for food basing on a more or less rational system. We feed them, spend lots of money, and eat them in the end.
Dolphins are wild fauna, their intelligent attraction to interact with other presumably intelligent life forms is repaid with murderous acts.

The line has to be drawn with wisdom. But concerning a more general aspect.
But, to follow my utopical line of thought:
Food should be rationalized per capita. Not on a very tight system, but if one can follow sets of rules, for example while driving the car, then we should start imposing rules upon amounts of food also.
This may sound radical, but it will come sooner or later.

We are currently 6 point something billions on this bloody earth, and the number is increasing every day. Rather sooner than later we will have to follow tighter and tighter rules about every aspect of our lives.
I can hear already the voices claiming the freedom to eat what we want, as much we want. Flash news: no more food for everybody. People were dying like flees in the last century because of hunger and greed wars.

Eleventh hour is a very educational documentary film.

OK, I'll relax about this subject. In most systems, the parts are in constant fight for equilibrium. But sooner we realize our resources are limited, smaller the effort to balance the system.

[RoxnDox]

I think the Japanese kill cetaceans when they have no good reason to do so, and I think they should stop. And I say this as a hunter and dedicated meat-eater. No endangered species should be killed intentionally.

However, I do not agree with the term "murder" to describe the killing of non-human creatures.

Jim

[pingflood]

No need to draw a line. It's built into your organism. You simply know that (unlike dogs, for instance) fish can't be joyful. You know that flies don't feel pain, that dolphins can communicate among themselves and interact with people, etc. You don't need any cognitive act to determine your *right* attitudes towards living beings other than that of listening to your deeper self.

The other thing: I'm afraid we are past the 12th hour. And they've just made a BIG oil discovery in the Gulf...

So you're going to "know" based on your anthropomorphizing other species (appearing "happy" or "sad" or whatever). Yeah, that's a real solid approach.

[octavmandru]

I think the Japanese kill cetaceans when they have no good reason to do so, and I think they should stop. And I say this as a hunter and dedicated meat-eater. No endangered species should be killed intentionally.

However, I do not agree with the term "murder" to describe the killing of non-human creatures.

Jim

I call "murder" any unnecessary killing.

[pingflood]

You can call it whatever you want, but the dictionary definition is "the unlawful premeditated killing of one person by another".

[Gooshin]

I call "murder" any unnecessary killing.

So whats necessary killing then?

[RawheaD]

Oh another typical thread on the matter by Americans. It's OK for us to kill pigs and cows, but look at the horrific act conducted by exotic peoples of the Orient!

Breeding just to kill and eat is OK, but hunting wild game is murder? WTF.

The dolphins in this propaganda film got to live there lives free, and many of them likely had the chance to propagate up until the moment of their deaths. Compare that to the "controlled and bred" livestock that we consume in the US. They were brought to life JUST to become human meat. They live in a shit hole (many times literally) until they die, they are not allowed to propagate at their free will, they can't even ****ing take a walk when they want to. But that's OK, cuz they're controlled, bred, and they're stupid.


Oh, and btw, the doplphins in the film are nowhere near endangered. Get a clue, folks.

[octavmandru]

So whats necessary killing then?

Are you are vegetarian? I'm not hypocrite.