you killed a bunch of natives and claimed the land for yourself

then you decided that you didnt want a king and queen so you started a war to become "free"

all the while using slaves

how about them chinese built railroads and tunnels..

christianity my ass

your country is built on chaos, a large chunk of land free to explore and put down your own stake, kill anyone that gets in the way, or tries to take from you whats "lawfully yours"

all the while hiding behind your christian god

god given right

god given freedom

===============

lets call it how it is

there are those that lead, those that follow, and those that run away.

doesnt that sound much simpler?

well they could have been more like the spaniards. go into a land and just wipe out entire civilizations like the taino indians in cuba. like the decimation in mexico. if I were spanish i'd go hide my face. now us Italians, were lovers, not fighters. that's what the mafia's for.

[Gooshin]

well they could have been more like the spaniards. go into a land and just wipe out entire civilizations like the taino indians in cuba. like the decimation in mexico. if I were spanish i'd go hide my face. now us Italians, were lovers, not fighters. that's what the mafia's for.

whatever, i dont really care

humans are rutheless and selfish, i dont have any problems admiting that

hell, even this thread

you are angry at something like a light bulb

you are ANGRY at something like a LIGHTBULB

[séamuis]

you killed a bunch of natives and claimed the land for yourself
we also purchased land. however, you can blame the british crown for these actions. the same crown that still rules over your land?

then you decided that you didnt want a king and queen so you started a war to become "free"
sure as hell did. its called revolution. france is well versed in this.

all the while using slaves
like everyone else.

how about them chinese built railroads and tunnels..
and Irish and Scottish, and American, and who knows what else. what's your point?

christianity my ass
?

your country is built on chaos, a large chunk of land free to explore and put down your own stake, kill anyone that gets in the way, or tries to take from you whats "lawfully yours"
a lot like the crown that still rules your land.

all the while hiding behind your christian god
so it would seem.


god given right
apparently.

god given freedom
earned freedom. doesn't matter if you don't agree with the ethics, it was earned. the same way it was earned by the Irish, and the Scottish. and India, and Sri Lanka, and how many other nations?

===============

lets call it how it is
how is it?

there are those that lead, those that follow, and those that run away.
is that how it is?

doesnt that sound much simpler?
yes, but what does it have to do with our countries history? or its present? seeing as how its nothing more than a vague statement pertaining to pretty much nothing.

yep yep. gooshin hates the US despite being rather ignorant of the country and its people. ya know, since hes never been there.

Well it's obvious that Gooshin didn't lead. So did he follow or run away?

whatever, i dont really care

humans are rutheless and selfish, i dont have any problems admiting that

hell, even this thread

you are angry at something like a light bulb

you are ANGRY at something like a LIGHTBULB

I am not angry at anything. I am commenting on the dangers of CFL's and how Big Brother mandates crap.

[Gooshin]

yep yep. gooshin hates the US despite being rather ignorant of the country and its people. ya know, since hes never been there.

ive been to new york and orlando, had a stop over in boston

i dont hate the US, i hate how most of its citizens are oblivious to the truths

you keep brining up the crown and how canada functions, but i have no dilusions about how it all came about, lots of people died so that we can live how we live

and it was most definetly not done out of christian beliefs.

ive been to new york and orlando, had a stop over in boston

i dont hate the US, i hate how most of its citizens are oblivious to the truths

you keep brining up the crown and how canada functions, but i have no dilusions about how it all came about, lots of people died so that we can live how we live

and it was most definitely not done out of christian beliefs.

Prove it.

10

[Gooshin]

Prove it.

10

um..

thou shalt not murder/kill

and

thou shalt not steal

just like that film is better thread you keep saying "prove it" when its rather plain that no proof is necessary unless you are just being an ass about it.

[deadwolfbones]

Ah, but Gooshin... the people we murdered and stole from and enslaved weren't legally "people" at the time. So it's all ok.

[Gooshin]

Ah, but Gooshin... the people we murdered and stole from and enslaved weren't legally "people" at the time. So it's all ok.

its always okay

the ends justify the means

just dont give me the christian crap

just like those Allah worshipers, so long as you're an infidel, they can do anything to you.

[Blue]

Ah, but Gooshin... the people we murdered and stole from and enslaved weren't legally "people" at the time. So it's all ok.

Unfortunately, they were too busy killing and stealing from each other. With the exception for a few such as Pontiac, Dragging Canoe, and Tecumseh, there were no organized efforts. However, look at the history of any country and any continent from a paleontology perspective and things have changed throughout history and still is.

[séamuis]

ive been to new york and orlando, had a stop over in boston

i dont hate the US, i hate how most of its citizens are oblivious to the truths

you keep brining up the crown and how canada functions, but i have no dilusions about how it all came about, lots of people died so that we can live how we live

and it was most definetly not done out of christian beliefs.

I stand corrected. gooshin has set foot on american soil. what truths are we oblivious to? you seem to lump us all into one group, but you dont quite seem to get that there are a lot of people in this country and a lot of people who think very differently from what you perceive them to based on your stereotypes. you have no delusions huh? so then you accept that history? seems kind of hypocritical to be so accepting, while trying to judge others for the same past. its ok though because your russian, and only live in canada!

um..

thou shalt not murder/kill

and

thou shalt not steal

just like that film is better thread you keep saying "prove it" when its rather plain that no proof is necessary unless you are just being an ass about it.

Those that kill in the name of Christ need to check their salvation. You do however have the right to protect yourself.

[Ratmagiclady]

Go to Costco - or some other auto supply store - and get a set of LED droplights for about $20 USD. No tungsten, no CFL and 10,000 hours of light with less than 10 watts an hour.

What's the problem again - being responsible?

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

Ah, LEDs. That's a really great application, (It seems my suggestion was a tad behind the times. It's been some time since I was looking at any such thing. )

As responsibility goes, yeah, I think that's really the problem, at times. People tend to feel entitled to, well, a tremendous lot of 'convenience,' even if it means working a lot longer and spending a lot more resources on the privilege of wasting.

A lot of people seem to feel like so much as recycling is something someone's doing to put them out: meanwhile all along private industry has been for decades doing everything it can to have no standards on wasteful packaging that we all have to deal with one way or another, whether it's in paying for its transportation, storage, and display, or just getting the darn things open... People even throw trash around down here like it's some kind of act of defiance against... what, I dunno, it's like standing there 'defiantly' peeing on yourself.

Folks don't want to 'lower' themselves to take public transport or a train, so they extend their working day by hours sitting in traffic in off-road machines they only have to work more hours to fuel and pay for.

No wonder they don't feel like they have the energy to sort their trash. Maybe blaming the liberals or even insisting God wants them to exhaust the Earth and it's a liberal conspiracy to control them to ask people to be more responsible.

There's no one solution to all the problems we've got going forward to the future. (And a lot of helpful things have been opposed by people who benefit from the ever-worsening status quo on the very basis this or that wasn't the one magic bullet) There's so many people in the country and the world that the 'smaller' stuff adds up, though. To more than most people really seem to understand.

A problem in this country is how much of even the possibility of getting together and working on solutions is shut down, shouted down, or ignored by a tendency to absolutist, all or nothing, black or white, for-me-or-against-me thinking:

'If it's not a particular kind of political Christianity, it must be Stalin.'

'If I'm not absolutely right, I must be absolutely wrong. That's an unacceptable thought, so I must be absolutely right.'

(Appropriately enough, that 'In God We Trust' is kind of like when they stuck 'Under God' into the Pledge of Allegiance during the Red Scare: 'In God We Trust *not* the national motto claiming 'America was founded as a Christian Nation from the founding: the national motto is "E Pluribus Unum" "From many, one." It means we're a pluralist nation. We have separation of church and state for a good reason: versions of state Christianity had long been *tearing apart* the Europe Colonial America had left. There was no revising history *about* it, it was still going on. If we'd had to struggle through the Enlightenment in the same way Europe did (having had a fresh start, we kind of got a lot of the benefit 'easily' ) we might have the same attitudes toward religion that Europe's developed.

Over here, I think what we've built has one really big drawback: not much of our pretty-cool way of life was ever actually planned or organized: how could it be. We've had a new revolutionary technology probably about every decade for a few generations now: as a result we have a lot of astounding capability: we command colossal and not-too-long-ago unimaginable energies... Mostly to go around in circles.

Who could plan for it? When they opened up the Web, were they thinking, 'You know, there's been a gigantic drag-out argument simmering in America since at least Reconstruction, it's gonna polarize the heck out of everyone based on increasingly-radicalized opinions?'

We're overstimulated, overtoxified, underexercised, and basically, whether we think 'freedom' is calling it 'rugged individualism' to amass wealth and go to a church that tells you you want 'small government' that'll 'legislate morality' (only about how others don't obey their version of their religion, not of course, about anything to do with the general welfare or what we leave the future. )

...Or if we think 'freedom' is getting off that treadmill as much as possible.

Personally, I've been both pretty darn well-off by world standards, and I've had basically nothing but the clothes on my back. There's a lot of freedom when you've got nothing, but you find your capabilities to do anything with it pretty limited. You can have a lot of capabilities if you're well off, but not much freedom to do anything with em. Cause you have to do this and that and this and that just to keep it. No one seems to say 'No, We can't,' more than the ultra-rich executives.

We have this *unbelievable* global communications network we're talking on right now, and mostly use it engaging in absolutist hyperbole. People in this country seem to think the only way to *talk* is to push for one absolute or another and treat everything like a game of Australian football. However, in this we do have a tool we can use to get together, start talking about what we want out of life.

Some of these things are really freebies: CF bulbs. Great example, really. All we need to do is be ready to scale up the disposal of them. Not stand around and complain about conditions which don't exist to say they're 'bad.' Yes, there's some mercury in em, but it's mercury that gives benefits that greatly outweigh the risks and the alternatives. As opposed, again, to just deregulating industry to dump mercury directly into the water in the name of the people theoretically being more financially able to waste more electricity.

If every conservative who wanted to say 'Take that, Stalin!' and throw their CF bulb into a lake did *that* instead of allowing industry to poison us directly with the stuff, that'd be a *bargain* for our mercury exposure. Call it *freedom.* You can expose yourself to as much or as little mercury as you want, that way.

Stalin was a paranoid, anti-intellectual, utterly un-compassionate ...land-raper and cultural imperialist (Ask any Siberian peoples about that) If you want to be afraid of his ghost, it's those qualities to watch out for.

[Ratmagiclady]

Sorry about the length there.

Definitely get tired of this throwing around of 'You're like Stalin!'

a) No.

b) What would happen if we all agree: "OK. No one here is Stalin. What are we wanting to do, now?"



And, btw, Graphic: this from your signature: "Hope, an excuse for doing nothing."

Nothing could be further from the truth. A lot of people who seem to believe they own the *copyright* on Hope will claim that the only 'hope' is maybe when things get immobilizingly-bad enough, to believe there'll be some external rescue or ultimate dominion. I do not hold to that.

*Lack* of hope is what prevents us from seeing that the *parts* out of which we can make something really cool are all around us. *Hope,* in fact, is what connects any two given things we might have cast away or have taken for granted. It's an *act* of Hope to put em together.