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09-15-2009, 01:29 PM   #1
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How we are going to do this? Health Care

New thread, for starters? :) This one's mostly about the mania. :)


What are the correct arguments about economics and health care?

There are 304 million living in the US.

I see we are expected to spend 2.5 trillion, (not sure about the site, I don't know if it is pro or con for health care, I just googled and it was the first one I saw), on health care this year.

There are 69.4 million children in the US

Right now we have between 10 to 16 percent unemployment (depending on who you count) . Let's take 10% so the math is easy.

There are 35.9 million poor people in the US.

There are 36.3 million senior citizens in the US

We have the civilian labor force participation rate at 65.5 percent.

(304 million - 69.4 million children) times 65.5 percent is 153,663,000. 35.9 million poor times 65.5% is 23,335,000, to give an idea of the working poor? So 153,663,000 - 23,335,000 - 36,300,000 = 94,028,000 people left to pay, assuming there is no unemployment. Can we put 10% on the future to pay?

Let's just go with that for now and forget about unemployment numbers. $2.5 trillion in health care costs divided by 94,028,000 people to pay for it, is $26,587 per working stiff.

Average income per worker is around $42,028 before taxes and $31,410 after. We still have to pay for everything else our taxes go for, so we have to take that health care cost out of the $31,410, $31,410 minus $26,587 is $4823. Seems like that's going to hurt a little.

That is 85% of everyone that works income after the current taxes. Low income, middle, well off, rich.

What is the max you are supposed to spend on housing, 15-25%? That's somewhere between $4,711 to $7853.

Lets look at how much we spend on food, $40 a week person, Average household size 2.59 people, food per year per household would be $40 * 2.59 * 52 weeks/year = $5,387.2 a year

What is left to pay for getting to and from work; car, gas, insurance. Then there are the bills like water, garbage, electric, gas, ... Baby's got to have new shoes.

Wow, I wonder how we are going to do this?

Thank you
Russell


Last edited by Russell-Evans; 09-17-2009 at 04:12 PM.
09-15-2009, 01:39 PM   #2
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Well, I know very little about how these things work, so I can't comment very intelligently.

That said, I imagine that much of the tax-funded money would go into interest-generating accounts that would at least partially self-generate the healthcare budget over time.

Someone correct me if I'm being naive.

I'm sure Joe will drop in here with some numbers soon.

btw, I applaud the idea of starting a new thread about the numbers and not about partisan bickering.
09-15-2009, 01:46 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
Well, I know very little about how these things work, so I can't comment very intelligently.

That said, I imagine that much of the tax-funded money would go into interest-generating accounts that would at least partially self-generate the healthcare budget over time.

Someone correct me if I'm being naive.

I'm sure Joe will drop in here with some numbers soon.

btw, I applaud the idea of starting a new thread about the numbers and not about partisan bickering.
You have to have surplus before you could generate interest. You have a 2.5 trillion hole to fill first. If filling that hole takes 85% of all our disposable income, what are you going to do, take the last 15% to create a surplus to generate interest? I'm sorry that just doesn't work.

Thank you
Russell
09-15-2009, 01:46 PM   #4
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"how are we going to do this"

you are going to do it

you're going to go to work, and try your best, take care of yourself, take care of your family, live healthy, avoid going to the doctor

not like these clowns

YouTube - 9.12 DC TEA PARTY - MARCH FOOTAGE WITH INTERVIEWS

09-15-2009, 01:49 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
you are going to do it

you're going to shup up, go to work, and try your best
Not a very good argument, I'm afraid. Let's talk numbers.

Thank you
Russell
09-15-2009, 01:49 PM   #6
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You can't do it. The CBO says that the plan under consideration will save money at first. But in years 7-10 will be in the red. To the tune of billions of dollars. Years 1-3 will of course be in the black. That's because they will be collecting taxed during that time periood but the spending is naught. The plan doesn't start until the 3rd year. After that it's down hill revenue wise. I thing toi the tune of 280 billion bucks. See the part no one seems to mention is the pay out starts in year 3. Collection is year one.
Like I have said in other threads the Obama says if the plan adds to the deficit they will cut spending. OK this is healthcare where do you cut spending? You ration it.
09-15-2009, 01:50 PM   #7
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Wonder if cutting military spending would help...
09-15-2009, 01:51 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
Wonder if cutting military spending would help...
Sure. We could leave a light on for AlQuaida too.

09-15-2009, 01:58 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Russell-Evans Quote
Not a very good argument, I'm afraid. Let's talk numbers.

Thank you
Russell
I dont think the answer is that simple Russell

The problem spans many layers of... socio political and economic life.

even the term, "health care cost"

what is a doctors time worth?

how much is a syringe worth?


the health condition of the general public has a direct impact on healthcare costs. America has one of the highest levels of obesceity and consumers of genetically modified food stuffs.

things like coka cola, chef-boy-r-dee (however you spell that..)

"FROZEN PIZZA"

i could be wrong, but i am under the bias that america invented the idea of a microwave TV dinner, just the thought of that makes me curl..

how can you quanitify the impact of bad peronal health on an annual budget, when conditions take years to develop from poor health




then you have health education costs

what does it take for a person to become a licenced doctor in the united states of america? compare that number with the rest of the world.

I have a number of friends who have went to medical school for a variety of fields, half of them are doing it out of social causes, the other are "in it for the money"

does america have ANY control over tuition costs and what doctors charge for their services? Watching all these doctor-tv-shows i get the idea that doctors go to where the pay is...

anywya

you really cant just "nail it down to a number"

what you can do is either have faith in your government, or not!
09-15-2009, 02:00 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Sure. We could leave a light on for AlQuaida too.
I'm seriously unconvinced that our wars are having any real effect on Al Qaeda at all.
09-15-2009, 02:01 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
Wonder if cutting military spending would help...
Military budget is $515 billion. $2,500,000,000,000 - $515,000,000,000 =$1,985,000,000,000


$1,985,000,000,000/94,028,000 = $21,110 per working stiff. That would bring the percent to 67% of the disposable income.

Thank you
Russell
09-15-2009, 02:02 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote

I have a number of friends who have went to medical school for a variety of fields, half of them are doing it out of social causes, the other are "in it for the money"



you really cant just "nail it down to a number"

what you can do is either have faith in your government, or not!
Becoming a doctor takes a lot of commitment whether for the money or not.

You have to nail it down to a number. It's all about numbers.

Even Barney says you can't trust government.
09-15-2009, 02:03 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Becoming a doctor takes a lot of commitment whether for the money or not.

You have to nail it down to a number. It's all about numbers.

Even Barney says you can't trust government.
in that case i will state that for us here pentaxians... nailing down the number for a nations healthcare budget, and, most importantly, how "WE" (as if we have any real power) are going to accomplish that budget is silly.
09-15-2009, 02:04 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
I'm seriously unconvinced that our wars are having any real effect on Al Qaeda at all.
We could give up our military totally and have mexico do it for us.
09-15-2009, 02:06 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
in that case i will state that for us here pentaxians... nailing down the number for a nations healthcare budget, and, most importantly, how "WE" (as if we have any real power) going to accomplish that budget is silly.
We, as in you, have no say whatsoever in the matter anyway. We as in *voters* do have a say. If the people of California and CT and Mass get smart the we won't see the likes of Dodd, Frank, or Pelosi next go round. And Rangel too.
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