[*isteve]

In another thread I was reminded about a (very funny/sad) voting thread on Flickr

Mario's Bike on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

One of the comments made me think. Is this current obsession with showing photos on public sites and getting feedback from self appointed "experts" (who are clearly not) actually just creating a mundane set of cookie-cutter photographers obsessed with technicalities and style over substance? Does it deter originality?

Or is it the opposite? Does being open to the widest possible range of public scrutiny and criticism actually make you a better photographer by teaching you how to communicate effectively with the largest possible audience? Will it make you more effective as a professional wedding/portrait/editorial/fashion.... photographer if you are totally hooked into the zeitgeist?

What do you all think?

[Ratmagiclady]

Eh, I'm not sure it's the right zeit for my geist, anyway.

[Blue]

Steve,

That's priceless.

[jct us101]

Hi, I'm a member of the DeleteMe! group, and all of us have always laughed at the fact that just because a photo is famous, it should be saved in a group like ours. I've been a member of that group since just after this happened, and I still think it's stupid for people to judge the group just because we didn't recognize a mediocre photo from someone famous.

[K McCall]

I think the Flickr experience - and any public showing of your work - is what you make of it. I'm in very few groups on Flickr (and 50% or more of those are Pentax-related), and I'm much more likely to browse other people's works and try to figure out how they took a particular shot or why it affects me the way that it does rather than to submit my own or look for a shot's shortcomings. I really think of it more as a storage space that I get to share with others. I definitely _don't_ change what I do with my camera or my post-processing based of what I think the Flickr people want to see.

[RawheaD]

The truth is, beauty IS in the eye of the beholder.


And the real joke here is that of the people who are laughing, I would hazard a guess as to, oh, I dunno, say 30-40% would've been screaming "deleteme" as well had they not known of the photograph beforehand. In the world of logic, we call it appeal to authority.


When I saw that photo, it looked vaguely familiar, and I liked it in the "mmm, that's a lovely artsy photo, but I can't take it, and I don't really want to be the kind of photographer that'd be taking it" way. I don't belong to the group, but if I did, I probably would've voted "saveme" but would NOT have been among those laughing.


It's hard to do, but you really have to un-remember who the artist is when looking at art and judge it on its own terms. And if you're honest about it, there will be plenty of famous work of art you'd think is rubbish... but you're too afraid to say it out loud.


As for the pros and cons of Flickr?


I'll just say this. I belong to various internet fora related to photography, and, with a tight control of who gets in my Contact List, I get a much consistent flow of high quality photoraphy to grace my eyes every day there than anywhere else. And having been a Pro account holder for almost exactly one year, I've learned a lot about photography, mostly thanks to Flickr.


But we should all know this.


After all, Flickr, like your Pentax, is but a tool. Use it wisely, and it will reward you.

Or, you can use it foolishly, and blame your tool :-P

[Ash]

Keitha's just about summed it up.
We'd gone through a similar discussion here... https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-talk/77241-flickr-just-giant-circle-jerk.html

And indeed the consensus to me says that Flickr isn't the place to use feedback as a judge of the quality of work, but can be used as a vehicle of seeing and appraising different styles of work. There will always be people with unproductive comments in every group; here too (I may be one of them - I hope not though).

[flippedgazelle]

You folks remember a decade ago, when it seemed like everyone and his sister had a personal webpage by Geocities or Homestead or Angelfire... poetry and pictures of cats and "why I'm special"?

Yeah, I made a decent chunk of money building PC's for people who wanted to do that.

I think there is a movement in popular "art" that, quite frankly, is less about originality and craftsmanship and more about accessability and being able to "relate" to it. This is pretty apparent in music, writing... and photography.

[flippedgazelle]

There will always be people with unproductive comments in every group; here too (I may be one of them - I hope not though).

No fears, Ash - you consistently, and kindly, offer something useful in your comments.

As for myself, I enjoy looking thru the photos posted here in PF. It helps me discover what I like and don't like, in terms of subject, composition and PP. A photo doesn't have to be "great" for me to get something from it.

[Rupert]

I am on a Flickr Pentax site and it is mostly for the fun and enjoyment of fellow Pentaxians and to share our efforts among each other. I am satisfied that there is some learning and improvement in technique and style there, and some gear talk that is helpful, but mostly we enjoy the company of each other. We are not a politically oriented site, and try to avoid conflicts, which we manage very well, and just share our mutual interests. Currently we are having our Fall Squirrel Frenzy, in association with the Nikon Flickr site, and invite any here that are interested to drop in and post a squirrel shot if you have one and want to join the WSSA (Worldwide Squirrel Shooters Association). For serious discussion on gear, technical aspects of photography, and other more serious discussion, Pentax Forums is still the best site on the internet.
Here is where our current Fall Frenzy is taking place..... Flickr: Discussing Official WSSA Fall Frenzy Right Here! in Pentaxians

I do agree with Flippedgazelle, browsing photos is not only fun it can lead you in new directions, and does not have to be "perfect" to do so.

Regards!
Rupert

[lithos]

Does anyone know how ninety-nine-point-nine-nine-recurring percent of people tell who took a certain photo?

I'll tell you how. It's a bit of a big secret in the art world, and they may just hunt me down, but I think I can take a bunch of arthritic old geezers in leather-elbowed tweed jackets and a few goatee'd effeminate guys on in a fight.

They can tell...

...they can tell because it has the ****ing artist's name on it.

Yup. That's it. Earth-shattering, heaven-rending, sea-boiling information, that.

[res3567]

I am on a Flickr Pentax site and it is mostly for the fun and enjoyment of fellow Pentaxians and to share our efforts among each other. I am satisfied that there is some learning and improvement in technique and style there, and some gear talk that is helpful, but mostly we enjoy the company of each other. We are not a politically oriented site, and try to avoid conflicts, which we manage very well, and just share our mutual interests. Currently we are having our Fall Squirrel Frenzy, in association with the Nikon Flickr site, and invite any here that are interested to drop in and post a squirrel shot if you have one and want to join the WSSA (Worldwide Squirrel Shooters Association). For serious discussion on gear, technical aspects of photography, and other more serious discussion, Pentax Forums is still the best site on the internet.
Here is where our current Fall Frenzy is taking place..... Flickr: Discussing Official WSSA Fall Frenzy Right Here! in Pentaxians

I do agree with Flippedgazelle, browsing photos is not only fun it can lead you in new directions, and does not have to be "perfect" to do so.

Regards!
Rupert

Ok, I tried to post my squrril on your Fall Frenzy, but am having trouble. I lost the original pic, but I have the one on flickr. I did a shortcut; how do I, like, copy and paste my pic to your Flickr site?

[Ash]

No fears, Ash - you consistently, and kindly, offer something useful in your comments.

As for myself, I enjoy looking thru the photos posted here in PF. It helps me discover what I like and don't like, in terms of subject, composition and PP. A photo doesn't have to be "great" for me to get something from it.

Much obliged flipped.
I'd like to think I help rather than hinder - and not just massage egos.

I also enjoy the variety of photos posted here, whether for critique or not.
I don't do it at all through Flickr - I just use it as a photo suppository...

[*isteve]

Hi, I'm a member of the DeleteMe! group, and all of us have always laughed at the fact that just because a photo is famous, it should be saved in a group like ours. I've been a member of that group since just after this happened, and I still think it's stupid for people to judge the group just because we didn't recognize a mediocre photo from someone famous.

I find it interesting that a group that sets itself up specifically to judge other peoples work should be so defensive when they themselves are judged.

[*isteve]

You folks remember a decade ago, when it seemed like everyone and his sister had a personal webpage by Geocities or Homestead or Angelfire... poetry and pictures of cats and "why I'm special"?

Yeah - now we have Facebook and Twitter and "this is what I think" and "here's what I had for breakfast". Progress?

Yeah, I made a decent chunk of money building PC's for people who wanted to do that.

It's an ill wind.....

I think there is a movement in popular "art" that, quite frankly, is less about originality and craftsmanship and more about accessability and being able to "relate" to it. This is pretty apparent in music, writing... and photography.

A very astute point, but do you think this is stifling real creativity and technical mastery, or is it a valuable reality check to stop people becoming too esoteric and out of touch? Should art be accessible or should it be hard?