'Road trains' get ready to roll

Fl_Gulfer · 11-10-2009, 08:45 AM

'Road trains' get ready to roll
Road trains that link vehicles together using wireless sensors could soon be on European roads.

An EU-financed research project is looking at inexpensive ways of getting vehicles to travel in a 'platoon' on Europe's motorways.

Each road train could include up to eight separate vehicles - cars, buses and trucks will be mixed in each one.

The EU hopes to cut fuel consumption, journey times and congestion by linking vehicles together.

Early work on the idea suggests that fuel consumption could be cut by 20% among those cars and trucks travelling behind the lead vehicle.

Spanish trials

The lead vehicle would be handled by a professional driver who would monitor the status of the road train. Those in following vehicles could take their hands off the wheel, read a book or watch TV, while they travel along the motorway. Their vehicle would be controlled by the lead vehicle.

Funded under the European Commission's Framework 7 research plan, Sartre (Safe Road Trains for the Environment) is aimed at commuters in cars who travel long distances to work every day but will also look at ways to involve commercial vehicles.

Tom Robinson, project co-ordinator at engineering firm Ricardo, said the idea was to use off-the-shelf components to make it possible for cars, buses and trucks to join the road train.

"The goal is to try and introduce a step change in transport methods," he said.

"We're looking at what it would take to get platooning on public highways without making big changes to the public highways themselves," said Mr Robinson.

A system that involved wiring up motorways with sensors to help control the road trains would be prohibitively expensive, he said.

"Each of the vehicles will have their own control and software monitoring system," said Mr Robinson. "There may well be a platoon sensor envelope that collates information and presents it to the lead vehicle so it can understand what is happening around all the vehicles."

The idea is to make platoons active so vehicles can join and leave as they need. Mr Robinson speculated that those joining a platoon or road train may one day pay for the privilege of someone else effectively driving them closer to their destination.

Sartre will run for three years. The project partners are currently doing preliminary research to find out all the elements needed for a working system and the situations in which it might be used.

There were also behavioural elements to consider, said Mr Robinson, such as whether all the vehicles will need to have their hazard lights on while in a platoon.

Also, he said, there had to be a way to ensure the vehicles in a platoon are organised to make drivers feel safe.

"Car drivers do not want to be between trucks," he said.

Towards the end of the research project trials will be held on test tracks in the UK, Spain and Sweden. There are also plans for public road trials in Spain. The first platoon will involve two trucks and three cars.

From The BBC News.

Parallax · 11-10-2009, 09:11 AM

It may work out fine in Europe, but that would be a Lawyer's dream here in the U.S. Anytime there was an accident there would be a whole new crop of people to sue.
Besides the driver of the vehicle you could sue the driver of the "train", the company he worked for, the people that manufactured the electronics,
the people that installed the electronics, the people who installed the roadway sensors, .....................................
I can almost hear the T.V. commercials already. "Hello. Have you or someone you love been injured or killed in a road train accident?
If so, call the law firm of Ambidexter, Stickem, and Shister today at 1-800-AMBCHASE

graphicgr8s · 11-10-2009, 09:16 AM

More ways for the government to control you.

little laker · 11-10-2009, 10:39 AM

I actually saw some early tests on that system 20 or more years ago, on TV.

It might be good for big trucks, however for passenger cars a better transit system would be more environmentally sound.

Ratmagiclady · 11-10-2009, 11:06 AM

Ah, this is a neat idea that's been waiting around for technology to catch up for a while.

I wonder if the technology's really gotten there. I think I'd really have trouble trusting the automation, but something like that could really help me get around. Every time I want to go any distance, I have to worry about if I'll have enough energy to drive home safely: (or even if I'll have enough left to do what I did the driving for.) Turning those highway stretches into 'a place and time to rest' would really mean a lot of freedom of movement for me, and a lot more I could get done in a day. (In the unlikely event I could afford a car so-equipped in the first place.

)

It'd be weird for me to try and take my hands off the wheel, though. I'm not sure how I'd adapt to that idea.

I like actual trains on rails, though.

Parallax · 11-10-2009, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

..............It'd be weird for me to try and take my hands off the wheel, though. I'm not sure how I'd adapt to that idea.

I don't like being a passenger in the passenger seat, I think it would be just about unbearable to be a passenger in the driver's seat.

Two old ladies went shopping one day.
A few blocks from the house they went through a red light.
A few blocks later, same thing. Didn't even slow down.
The one in the passenger seat yelled: "Martha! That is the second red light you've run in
less than 5 minutes."
Martha looked around and said. "Oh! Am I driving?

SteveM · 11-10-2009, 02:04 PM

It's a neat idea, but for now I would think it would be limited to research. If the road trains use public highways, how would that impact safety? Does it need additional startup and braking distance? How much would it slow down transportation for everyone on the highway?

The big worry would be adding trucks. At least with railways, it's obvious who pays for rail maintenance. There are limits on the size of trucks partly due to the impact they have on road surfaces. I'd hate to see this lead to increases in this size, which could result in more taxes to pay for road maintenance.

deadwolfbones · 11-10-2009, 02:28 PM

Since I was a kid I've been wondering if someone would come along with something like this... or even roads with embedded electromagnets that could be used to propel/stop vehicles by remote.

graphicgr8s · 11-10-2009, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

Since I was a kid I've been wondering if someone would come along with something like this... or even roads with embedded electromagnets that could be used to propel/stop vehicles by remote.

And you really want to trust someone else, or worse yet a computer to stop you?

SteveM · 11-10-2009, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

And you really want to trust someone else, or worse yet a computer to stop you?

Haven't you heard?...everything is perfect in Windows 7....I'm sure it wouldn't "crash"

Ratmagiclady · 11-10-2009, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by smc

It's a neat idea, but for now I would think it would be limited to research. If the road trains use public highways, how would that impact safety? Does it need additional startup and braking distance? How much would it slow down transportation for everyone on the highway?

The big worry would be adding trucks. At least with railways, it's obvious who pays for rail maintenance. There are limits on the size of trucks partly due to the impact they have on road surfaces. I'd hate to see this lead to increases in this size, which could result in more taxes to pay for road maintenance.

I don't see how it would lead to bigger trucks, as such, though. I'm pretty sure the size they have now is pretty much down to a science.

I presume that the system would actually be made to be safer than we are from driver error and fatigue now. With pretty conservative maneuvering and lots of safeguards. To a rational estimation, safer, anyway. How to make me *feel* that way might be another matter.

emr · 11-10-2009, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by smc

Haven't you heard?...everything is perfect in Windows 7....I'm sure it wouldn't "crash"...

Hey, they're running war ships on Windows too!

Windows for Warships nears frontline service ? The Register

"Enemy? Wait a moment, I need to boot this boat."

A new meaning to the blue screen of death.

deadwolfbones · 11-10-2009, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

And you really want to trust someone else, or worse yet a computer to stop you?

I trust other drivers on the road every day. I think that's probably a lot more dangerous.

Ratmagiclady · 11-10-2009, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

I trust other drivers on the road every day. I think that's probably a lot more dangerous.

Heehee. Very likely. Sometimes our sense of control out there is pretty illusory. But the way I do so much by incorporating a sense of feel, (kinesthetics) I think it's a little hard to let go of the idea. (Once we rented a vehicle which turned out to be with a computerized traction control system in it, ...I was concerned it would get something wrong or something. (Yes, we tried it anyway)

)

I've always described myself here as a *really analog* person. It applies here. I'd still prefer a standard transmission if not for the arthritis.

I bet I could adapt, though, if it meant being able to go where I'd be otherwise dubious about being able to.

)

graphicgr8s · 11-10-2009, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

It may work out fine in Europe

They're use to the government controlling almost every aspect of their lives already.

11-10-2009, 08:45 AM	#1
Fl_Gulfer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Gulfer Photos: Albums Posts: 3,054	'Road trains' get ready to roll 'Road trains' get ready to roll Road trains that link vehicles together using wireless sensors could soon be on European roads. An EU-financed research project is looking at inexpensive ways of getting vehicles to travel in a 'platoon' on Europe's motorways. Each road train could include up to eight separate vehicles - cars, buses and trucks will be mixed in each one. The EU hopes to cut fuel consumption, journey times and congestion by linking vehicles together. Early work on the idea suggests that fuel consumption could be cut by 20% among those cars and trucks travelling behind the lead vehicle. Spanish trials The lead vehicle would be handled by a professional driver who would monitor the status of the road train. Those in following vehicles could take their hands off the wheel, read a book or watch TV, while they travel along the motorway. Their vehicle would be controlled by the lead vehicle. Funded under the European Commission's Framework 7 research plan, Sartre (Safe Road Trains for the Environment) is aimed at commuters in cars who travel long distances to work every day but will also look at ways to involve commercial vehicles. Tom Robinson, project co-ordinator at engineering firm Ricardo, said the idea was to use off-the-shelf components to make it possible for cars, buses and trucks to join the road train. "The goal is to try and introduce a step change in transport methods," he said. "We're looking at what it would take to get platooning on public highways without making big changes to the public highways themselves," said Mr Robinson. A system that involved wiring up motorways with sensors to help control the road trains would be prohibitively expensive, he said. "Each of the vehicles will have their own control and software monitoring system," said Mr Robinson. "There may well be a platoon sensor envelope that collates information and presents it to the lead vehicle so it can understand what is happening around all the vehicles." The idea is to make platoons active so vehicles can join and leave as they need. Mr Robinson speculated that those joining a platoon or road train may one day pay for the privilege of someone else effectively driving them closer to their destination. Sartre will run for three years. The project partners are currently doing preliminary research to find out all the elements needed for a working system and the situations in which it might be used. There were also behavioural elements to consider, said Mr Robinson, such as whether all the vehicles will need to have their hazard lights on while in a platoon. Also, he said, there had to be a way to ensure the vehicles in a platoon are organised to make drivers feel safe. "Car drivers do not want to be between trucks," he said. Towards the end of the research project trials will be held on test tracks in the UK, Spain and Sweden. There are also plans for public road trials in Spain. The first platoon will involve two trucks and three cars. From The BBC News.

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11-10-2009, 09:11 AM	#2
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	It may work out fine in Europe, but that would be a Lawyer's dream here in the U.S. Anytime there was an accident there would be a whole new crop of people to sue. Besides the driver of the vehicle you could sue the driver of the "train", the company he worked for, the people that manufactured the electronics, the people that installed the electronics, the people who installed the roadway sensors, ..................................... I can almost hear the T.V. commercials already. "Hello. Have you or someone you love been injured or killed in a road train accident? If so, call the law firm of Ambidexter, Stickem, and Shister today at 1-800-AMBCHASE

11-10-2009, 09:16 AM	#3
graphicgr8s Guest	More ways for the government to control you.

11-10-2009, 10:39 AM	#4
little laker Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,697	I actually saw some early tests on that system 20 or more years ago, on TV. It might be good for big trucks, however for passenger cars a better transit system would be more environmentally sound.

11-10-2009, 11:06 AM	#5
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Ah, this is a neat idea that's been waiting around for technology to catch up for a while. I wonder if the technology's really gotten there. I think I'd really have trouble trusting the automation, but something like that could really help me get around. Every time I want to go any distance, I have to worry about if I'll have enough energy to drive home safely: (or even if I'll have enough left to do what I did the driving for.) Turning those highway stretches into 'a place and time to rest' would really mean a lot of freedom of movement for me, and a lot more I could get done in a day. (In the unlikely event I could afford a car so-equipped in the first place. ) It'd be weird for me to try and take my hands off the wheel, though. I'm not sure how I'd adapt to that idea. I like actual trains on rails, though.

11-10-2009, 01:25 PM	#6
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Ratmagiclady ..............It'd be weird for me to try and take my hands off the wheel, though. I'm not sure how I'd adapt to that idea. I don't like being a passenger in the passenger seat, I think it would be just about unbearable to be a passenger in the driver's seat. Two old ladies went shopping one day. A few blocks from the house they went through a red light. A few blocks later, same thing. Didn't even slow down. The one in the passenger seat yelled: "Martha! That is the second red light you've run in less than 5 minutes." Martha looked around and said. "Oh! Am I driving?

11-10-2009, 02:04 PM	#7
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294	It's a neat idea, but for now I would think it would be limited to research. If the road trains use public highways, how would that impact safety? Does it need additional startup and braking distance? How much would it slow down transportation for everyone on the highway? The big worry would be adding trucks. At least with railways, it's obvious who pays for rail maintenance. There are limits on the size of trucks partly due to the impact they have on road surfaces. I'd hate to see this lead to increases in this size, which could result in more taxes to pay for road maintenance.

11-10-2009, 02:28 PM	#8
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	Since I was a kid I've been wondering if someone would come along with something like this... or even roads with embedded electromagnets that could be used to propel/stop vehicles by remote.

11-10-2009, 02:35 PM	#9
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by deadwolfbones Since I was a kid I've been wondering if someone would come along with something like this... or even roads with embedded electromagnets that could be used to propel/stop vehicles by remote. And you really want to trust someone else, or worse yet a computer to stop you?

11-10-2009, 03:08 PM	#10
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294	Originally posted by graphicgr8s And you really want to trust someone else, or worse yet a computer to stop you? Haven't you heard?...everything is perfect in Windows 7....I'm sure it wouldn't "crash"

11-10-2009, 03:27 PM	#11
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by smc It's a neat idea, but for now I would think it would be limited to research. If the road trains use public highways, how would that impact safety? Does it need additional startup and braking distance? How much would it slow down transportation for everyone on the highway? The big worry would be adding trucks. At least with railways, it's obvious who pays for rail maintenance. There are limits on the size of trucks partly due to the impact they have on road surfaces. I'd hate to see this lead to increases in this size, which could result in more taxes to pay for road maintenance. I don't see how it would lead to bigger trucks, as such, though. I'm pretty sure the size they have now is pretty much down to a science. I presume that the system would actually be made to be safer than we are from driver error and fatigue now. With pretty conservative maneuvering and lots of safeguards. To a rational estimation, safer, anyway. How to make me feel that way might be another matter.

11-10-2009, 04:06 PM	#12
emr Guest	Originally posted by smc Haven't you heard?...everything is perfect in Windows 7....I'm sure it wouldn't "crash"... Hey, they're running war ships on Windows too! Windows for Warships nears frontline service ? The Register "Enemy? Wait a moment, I need to boot this boat." A new meaning to the blue screen of death.

11-10-2009, 04:16 PM	#13
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	Originally posted by graphicgr8s And you really want to trust someone else, or worse yet a computer to stop you? I trust other drivers on the road every day. I think that's probably a lot more dangerous.

11-10-2009, 05:06 PM	#14
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by deadwolfbones I trust other drivers on the road every day. I think that's probably a lot more dangerous. Heehee. Very likely. Sometimes our sense of control out there is pretty illusory. But the way I do so much by incorporating a sense of feel, (kinesthetics) I think it's a little hard to let go of the idea. (Once we rented a vehicle which turned out to be with a computerized traction control system in it, ...I was concerned it would get something wrong or something. (Yes, we tried it anyway) ) I've always described myself here as a really analog person. It applies here. I'd still prefer a standard transmission if not for the arthritis. I bet I could adapt, though, if it meant being able to go where I'd be otherwise dubious about being able to. )

11-10-2009, 05:38 PM	#15
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by Parallax It may work out fine in Europe They're use to the government controlling almost every aspect of their lives already.