[Ratmagiclady]

But aren't they only expensive because of the potential of appeals? Redefine the criteria and the cost should be the same as prosecuting a life sentence case. Long term, they should be cheaper considering the cost of keeping someone in prison. Death row is even more expensive.

Well, the potential of appeals is... Part of keeping the process appropriately-exhaustive. We don't want to give up civil rights and due process out of some haste to execute someone more cheaply. It has to be done all the more carefully cause you can't take a death sentence *back* if some miscarriage of justice happened in a trial. I'd say the money's not worth losing that due process, either. Guards and all are just way cheaper than lawyers and judges, (and death row, as well, for whatever reason.) This adds up pretty quickly.

Well, the potential of appeals is... Part of keeping the process appropriately-exhaustive. We don't want to give up civil rights and due process out of some haste to execute someone more cheaply. It has to be done all the more carefully cause you can't take a death sentence *back* if some miscarriage of justice happened in a trial. I'd say the money's not worth losing that due process, either. Guards and all are just way cheaper than lawyers and judges, (and death row, as well, for whatever reason.) This adds up pretty quickly.

Statistics to back this up please.

Well, the potential of appeals is... Part of keeping the process appropriately-exhaustive. We don't want to give up civil rights and due process out of some haste to execute someone more cheaply. It has to be done all the more carefully cause you can't take a death sentence *back* if some miscarriage of justice happened in a trial. I'd say the money's not worth losing that due process, either. Guards and all are just way cheaper than lawyers and judges, (and death row, as well, for whatever reason.) This adds up pretty quickly.

Some prisoners are kept on death row for decades at a cost of millions, no way is that cheaper.
Miscarriages of justice already happen so I don't see that as a valid argument, remember, I said earlier that the sentence should only be passed if the guilt is 'beyond a shadow of a doubt'.
Seems to me that the current process is just designed to make some people money and to waste our tax dollars.
Aside from death sentences, it's interesting that prison populations rose drastically when privately owned prisons started to become popular.

[Das Boot]

I think that executions would be more effective if they were done like in the old days - A public spectacle. Nothing drives the point home better that a body hanging from its neck in the town square or a head paraded around the town.

[MRRiley]

Mohammad Executed...

Muhammad was put to death for a single killing -- the Oct. 9, 2002, sniper slaying of Dean H. Meyers of Gaithersburg, who was shot shortly after 8 p.m. while he pumped gas into his Mazda at a Sunoco station outside Manassas. (Washington Post)

[Rupert]

For one thing, all the facts aren't known about this one yet so it seems premature to make comparisons other than that a lot of people lost their lives.

Maybe we should instead be discussing the validity of having weapons (apart from those used for training purposes) on 'at home' military bases.

There are interesting questions here in Texas about the idea of having soldiers on base armed. At least the Officers....How far would this killer at Ft Hood have gotten if there had been a room full of armed men/women? There are some dangers in this too, many off the young soldiers are maybe not who you want with a gun when tempers flare, and they do flare from time to time, but Officers certainly have the maturity and discipline to carry a sidearm. If we are to continue this foolish idea that terrorist leaning people, of any culture, are able to join and serve, then our soldiers deserve better protection than what they got at Ft Hood.
Here in Texas where we are allowed to carry concealed weapons with a permit, there have been few if any questionable incidents involving armed citizens with permits. I know I feel safer when I am out for lunch or shopping knowing that there are those among me that are armed. Sometimes I feel even safer than that.....
Texas on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Turn up the volume.....

[Phil1]

'And no, I don't really believe in the death penalty, not as a deterrent or an effective law enforcement tool: on the contrary, it seems to have a way of escalating crimes.'
Ratmagic

The term is death PENALTY. It's not a death deterrent or anything else. You do this, you get that. It's not hard, really. The fix is don't do that and if you do, the penalty will assure you won't again unlike punishment for other crimes. For all practical purposes there is hardly any death penalties effectively handed out in the US. It's a states' thing. In Calif. which has the DP, I can't recall when the last one took place. For all practical purposes there is none in Calif in spite of Calif death row housing more than the garrison of Ft Hood.

Name Ethnicity Trial County Received Date Sentence Date Offense Date
ABBOTT, JOE BLA San Bernardino 2/22/2006 2/16/2006 10/30/2000
ABEL, JOHN WHI Orange 10/6/1997 9/26/1997 1/4/1991
ABILEZ, FRANK HIS Los Angeles 12/10/1997 12/4/1997 3/15/1996
ACREMANT, ROBERT OTH Tulare 10/3/2002 10/3/2002 10/3/1995
ADAMS, MARCUS BLA Los Angeles 8/20/2003 8/4/2003 9/7/1994
ADCOX, KEITH WHI Tuolumne 7/13/1983 7/11/1983 5/27/1982
AGUAYO, JOSEPH HIS Sacramento 8/14/1996 8/8/1996 7/26/1995
ALCALA, RODNEY WHI Orange 6/25/1980 8/20/1986 6/20/1979
ALEXANDER, ANDRE BLA Los Angeles 5/1/1996 4/23/1996 6/4/1980
ALFARO, MARIA HIS Orange 7/20/1992 7/14/1992 6/15/1990
ALLEN, MICHAEL BLA Los Angeles 12/22/1997 12/12/1997 8/5/1991
ALLISON, WATSON BLA Los Angeles 10/10/1984 10/2/1984 11/11/1982
ALVAREZ, FRANCISCO HIS Kern 6/29/2000 6/28/2000 11/15/1994
ALVAREZ, MANUEL OTH Sacramento 9/20/1989 9/14/1989 5/17/1987
AMEZCUA, OSWALDO HIS Los Angeles 4/27/2005 4/20/2005 6/19/2000
ANDERSON, ERIC WHI San Diego 11/7/2005 10/28/2005 4/14/2003
ANDERSON, JAMES BLA Riverside 12/9/1979 11/30/1979 3/4/1979
ANDREWS, JESSE BLA Los Angeles 6/18/1984 6/8/1984 12/9/1979
ARGUETA, CARLOS HIS Los Angeles 2/28/2007 2/16/2007 2/15/2004
ARIAS, PEDRO HIS Sacramento 3/5/1990 2/22/1990 5/23/1987
ARISMAN, DAVID WHI Los Angeles 1/27/1999 1/15/1999 4/25/1997
ARMSTRONG, CRAIG BLA Los Angeles 1/26/2005 1/5/2005 9/30/2001
ARMSTRONG, JAMELLE BLA Los Angeles 7/28/2004 7/16/2004 12/29/1998
ASHMUS, TROY WHI Sacramento 7/30/1986 7/25/1986 5/19/1984
AVENA, CARLOS HIS Los Angeles 2/22/1982 2/12/1982 9/13/1980


There is 9 more pages with 680 names.
Database: Death Row inmates - LA Daily News

We don't kill them and crime still goes up so your hypothesis is wrong on the DP.

[Das Boot]

Here's a portion of an article about "Gun Town" shortly after the VA Tech shootings:

As the nation debates whether more guns or fewer can prevent tragedies like the Virginia Tech Massacre, a notable anniversary passed last month in a Georgia town that witnessed a dramatic plunge in crime and violence after mandating residents to own firearms.

In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Here's the link to the whole article.

[Phil1]

'There are interesting questions here in Texas about the idea of having soldiers on base armed.'

Having been a guest resident at Ft Hood for 1 1/2 years some time back. I can assure you there is no need to 'arm' everyone or even officers on a daily basis. That presents a bigger risk of accidents than any security need. Post police, security and investigators excepted. Twelve deaths on Ft Hood are a huge abnomilty. That might make second page news in Obama's Chicago as a 'busy weekend'.

If you really would like to stop gun killings just disarm liberals. The jails are full of them.

[flippedgazelle]

nevermind.....

[Das Boot]

Can't figure out what this has to do with anything.

I have a feeling what was meant and as long as people want this to remain an open thread, maybe we shouldn't ask for clarification.

[flippedgazelle]

I have a feeling what was meant and as long as people want this to remain an open thread, maybe we shouldn't ask for clarification.

I'm gonna take your advice, and ignore the woooosh that went by!

[res3567]

There are interesting questions here in Texas about the idea of having soldiers on base armed. At least the Officers....How far would this killer at Ft Hood have gotten if there had been a room full of armed men/women? There are some dangers in this too, many off the young soldiers are maybe not who you want with a gun when tempers flare, and they do flare from time to time, but Officers certainly have the maturity and discipline to carry a sidearm. If we are to continue this foolish idea that terrorist leaning people, of any culture, are able to join and serve, then our soldiers deserve better protection than what they got at Ft Hood.
Here in Texas where we are allowed to carry concealed weapons with a permit, there have been few if any questionable incidents involving armed citizens with permits. I know I feel safer when I am out for lunch or shopping knowing that there are those among me that are armed. Sometimes I feel even safer than that.....
Texas on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Turn up the volume.....

Oh c'mon Rupert, we aint all like that here in Texas are we? We friendly people first!

[flippedgazelle]

Oh c'mon Rupert, we aint all like that here in Texas are we? We friendly people first!

I thought all that "friendliness" was because y'all are packing heat...

[res3567]

I thought all that "friendliness" was because y'all are packing heat...

Not all of us. I keep my heat at the house. The only "guns" I usually tote wit me is one of my cameras. I usually pack my compact on me for "special situations" were it has to be conceled only wipping it out to get that candid. I capture my subjects without them knowing it....

Now my "Big Guns" will see use in public places were DSLRs are not minded; like at an air show.