[lithos]

Does that include the Howard government, Mallee Boy? Howard didn't stop the boats towards the end of his term it was more a lull in political tensions in Asia.

I suppose Kevin could just take Howard's stance: declare any parts of Australia that refugees land on as being in international waters. Or send in the SASR.

---

Last edited by lithos; 11-16-2009 at 08:07 PM.

[Mallee Boy]

Does that include the Howard government, Mallee Boy? Howard didn't stop the boats towards the end of his term it was more a lull in political tensions in Asia.

I suppose Kevin could just take Howard's stance: declare any parts of Australia that refugees land on as being in international waters. Or send in the SASR.

and what facts back up that claim Lithos? Say what you like, Rudd has created at least the perception that it is easy to get illegal entry into Australia (if not the reality).
Without a strong border protection policy (whether it be real or perceived) we will face more and more so called "asylum seekers" attempting to gain entry, making a complete mockery of our immigration process.

Send in the SASR by all means, if that what it takes to get the message across that we are not a soft touch for anyone seeking a govt funded leg up in life, then do it.

As for the legitimate refugee, I have no problem with increasing our intake, with speeding up the process, with doing our bit, but we can not take them all, it is physicaly, economically and ecologically impossible unless we find away of supplying enough water for another 12 million people. And given that we now wont build dams because of some obscure turtle the water question has just got a whole heap more difficult.

[Ash]

Australia has quite a unique border protection problem, and boat after boat continues to be intercepted before they get to the mainland. It takes a lot of effort on their part to even get to Australian waters. There really aren't many refugees/illegal immigrants breaching this border security.

The issue is finding a way to dissuade them from making the trek to Australia in the first place. Indonesia's authorities are hesitant to assist, so what choices does govt have to find a humane and rational solution to the problem?

[cupic]

If KR apologies anymore I will Vomit

cheers

[flippedgazelle]

I never realized that Australia had such immigration issues.

[Mike L]

and what facts back up that claim Lithos? Say what you like, Rudd has created at least the perception that it is easy to get illegal entry into Australia (if not the reality)

There's plenty of facts to back up the claim geopolitical factors have more to do with the number of asylum seekers coming to Australia than government policies, if you look for them somewhere beside newspapers and tabloid television

UNHCR Press release on Conflicts in Afghanistan and Somalia

Number of asylum seekers halved since 2001, says UNHCR

Seems asylum applications globally fell between 2001 and 2006, and then rose in 2007 and 2008. Any Liberal will tell you how good Honest John was and how he decided who would come to this country but it's a pretty big stretch to claim his strong border protection policies affected to whole world. Maybe, just maybe, the number of asylum seekers coming to Australia reflects global trends and has very little to do with who is in power.

Without a strong border protection policy (whether it be real or perceived) we will face more and more so called "asylum seekers" attempting to gain entry, making a complete mockery of our immigration process.

Send in the SASR by all means, if that what it takes to get the message across that we are not a soft touch for anyone seeking a govt funded leg up in life, then do it.

As for the legitimate refugee, I have no problem with increasing our intake, with speeding up the process, with doing our bit, but we can not take them all, it is physicaly, economically and ecologically impossible unless we find away of supplying enough water for another 12 million people. And given that we now wont build dams because of some obscure turtle the water question has just got a whole heap more difficult.

Let's not mention the plane loads of rich "queue jumpers" that arrive with student and tourist visas and then claim asylum (7,292 in the Coalition's last 2 years in government - DIAC statistics) because they don't suit the Coalitions rhetoric about strong border protection.

Maybe Border Security should film the SAS taking down some Chinese students at Sydney and Melbourne Airports to get the message across.

Australia is relatively generous in terms of the refugees it resettles (12,000-13,000 per year) but the numbers of people that come here by boat or plane is a drop in the ocean on a global scale and no one is suggesting we take them all.

[Das Boot]

Outside of the asylum issue, all these Oz issues sound vaguely fimiliar.

Ahhh...what the heck....I didn't start this.

Here it is for the record:
YES, I would much rather have Howard back as my PM, rather than this shallow, insincere pathetic spin merchant and media tart sorry apology for a PM that we have now. Rudd is a disgrace.

Yep...that feels a whole lot better!
Cheers
Grant

Is he the Obama's twin brother?

[Mallee Boy]

Is he the Obama's twin brother?

You got it.

You got it.

That bad huh? Sorry for you.

[Mallee Boy]

There's plenty of facts to back up the claim geopolitical factors have more to do with the number of asylum seekers coming to Australia than government policies, if you look for them somewhere beside newspapers and tabloid television

UNHCR Press release on Conflicts in Afghanistan and Somalia

Number of asylum seekers halved since 2001, says UNHCR

Seems asylum applications globally fell between 2001 and 2006, and then rose in 2007 and 2008. Any Liberal will tell you how good Honest John was and how he decided who would come to this country but it's a pretty big stretch to claim his strong border protection policies affected to whole world. Maybe, just maybe, the number of asylum seekers coming to Australia reflects global trends and has very little to do with who is in power.



Let's not mention the plane loads of rich "queue jumpers" that arrive with student and tourist visas and then claim asylum (7,292 in the Coalition's last 2 years in government - DIAC statistics) because they don't suit the Coalitions rhetoric about strong border protection.

Maybe Border Security should film the SAS taking down some Chinese students at Sydney and Melbourne Airports to get the message across.

Australia is relatively generous in terms of the refugees it resettles (12,000-13,000 per year) but the numbers of people that come here by boat or plane is a drop in the ocean on a global scale and no one is suggesting we take them all.

Mike,
Dont overlook the fact that the majority of people picked up by the Oceanic Viking have been in Indonesia for up to 5 years awaiting re-settlement, according to media reports.
So why did they suddenly decide to try and make the voyage?

Co-incidence? I dont think so.

.....or is the word out that is suddenly easier to get into Australia again, which again, according to media reports, is what the "asylum seekers" will tell you.

I love it how whenever the issue of numbers comes up in this debate that those who would open our borders say it doesn't matter.
Well, it does matter. With 12 million refugees looking for a home today, it matters a hell of a lot.

How many do we take...all..? (you say no-one is suggesting that)...then what?.. 50%??....25%???....10%???.....1%...???

Our immigration must be orderly, and it must be sustainable. Already we have water supply problems up & down the East Coast where these people want to live, with no viable long term solutions being offered.

Yes, population numbers for the driest continent on the planet do matter.

Mike,
Dont overlook the fact that the majority of people picked up by the Oceanic Viking have been in Indonesia for up to 5 years awaiting re-settlement, according to media reports.
So why did they suddenly decide to try and make the voyage?

Co-incidence? I dont think so.

.....or is the word out that is suddenly easier to get into Australia again, which again, according to media reports, is what the "asylum seekers" will tell you.

I love it how whenever the issue of numbers comes up in this debate that those who would open our borders say it doesn't matter.
Well, it does matter. With 12 million refugees looking for a home today, it matters a hell of a lot.

How many do we take...all..? (you say no-one is suggesting that)...then what?.. 50%??....25%???....10%???.....1%...???

Our immigration must be orderly, and it must be sustainable. Already we have water supply problems up & down the East Coast where these people want to live, with no viable long term solutions being offered.

Yes, population numbers for the driest continent on the planet do matter.

Mallee we've got the same problem here. Our southern border is so unprotected. And Border Patrol is pretty much told to look the other way as was Sheriff Joe. Leave it to the liberal politicians to really screw that up. And amnesty doesn't work. Reagan tried it and proved it was a bad idea. But they want to do it again. Just like they did with banking here. Same crap happened here with S&Ls. They just keep repeating history. At least all the wrong aspects of it.

[Mallee Boy]

Mallee we've got the same problem here. Our southern border is so unprotected. And Border Patrol is pretty much told to look the other way as was Sheriff Joe. Leave it to the liberal politicians to really screw that up. And amnesty doesn't work. Reagan tried it and proved it was a bad idea. But they want to do it again. Just like they did with banking here. Same crap happened here with S&Ls. They just keep repeating history. At least all the wrong aspects of it.

I have heard about your sthn border problems, and then you only need to look at Europe and the mess they have got themselves into. I'm in the accommodation industry and get people from all across the world through our doors, so I hear their stories.

These are massive problems for all of us with no simple or easy solutions beyond a lot of hard and thankless work to maintain the integrity of your/our borders (where-ever they maybe).

The biggest difficulty is that when a society becomes "successful" and I would define that by a 'high standard of living' others become envious of it and want a piece of it. Communications today is so instant that people see images of grassy lawns and tree lined streets and want that for their families...I understand that.
But that doesn't give anyone the "right" to just walk in and say Hi! I'm here....and by the way, I now want access to your social services.

As I said, no easy answers to any of this, but at the very least our elected governments have a constitutional responsibility to maintain the integrity of our borders. I get annoyed when some one is prepared to take on the hard answer and then gets vilified for it.

[Mike L]

Is he the Obama's twin brother?

Seems like we have a pattern Bonsai Howard (mini-Bush) was a clone of your last President. Yep that bad!!!

I have heard about your sthn border problems, and then you only need to look at Europe and the mess they have got themselves into. I'm in the accommodation industry and get people from all across the world through our doors, so I hear their stories.

These are massive problems for all of us with no simple or easy solutions beyond a lot of hard and thankless work to maintain the integrity of your/our borders (where-ever they maybe).

The biggest difficulty is that when a society becomes "successful" and I would define that by a 'high standard of living' others become envious of it and want a piece of it. Communications today is so instant that people see images of grassy lawns and tree lined streets and want that for their families...I understand that.
But that doesn't give anyone the "right" to just walk in and say Hi! I'm here....and by the way, I now want access to your social services.

As I said, no easy answers to any of this, but at the very least our elected governments have a constitutional responsibility to maintain the integrity of our borders. I get annoyed when some one is prepared to take on the hard answer and then gets vilified for it.

I have a sure fire way to keep it under control. Bleeding heart libs wouldn't like it though. But it's guaranteed to work.