[Mike L]

Mike,
Dont overlook the fact that the majority of people picked up by the Oceanic Viking have been in Indonesia for up to 5 years awaiting re-settlement, according to media reports.
So why did they suddenly decide to try and make the voyage?

Co-incidence? I dont think so.

.....or is the word out that is suddenly easier to get into Australia again, which again, according to media reports, is what the "asylum seekers" will tell you.

I love it how whenever the issue of numbers comes up in this debate that those who would open our borders say it doesn't matter.
Well, it does matter. With 12 million refugees looking for a home today, it matters a hell of a lot.

How many do we take...all..? (you say no-one is suggesting that)...then what?.. 50%??....25%???....10%???.....1%...???

Our immigration must be orderly, and it must be sustainable. Already we have water supply problems up & down the East Coast where these people want to live, with no viable long term solutions being offered.

Yes, population numbers for the driest continent on the planet do matter.

Let's pretend for a moment that it is a fact that the majority of the people from the OV have been in Indonesia for 5 years awaiting resettlement and not just a media report based on claims by members of the group......for convenience we'll ignore the fact that the majority haven't even been registered as asylum seekers yet.

If the reason they got in the boat was because Australia was suddenly easier to get into, why didn't they come last year when the government shut down the Offshore Processing Centres, or abolished TPVs or when the government stopped billing people for their detention? Why wait around for year or 6 months? Why not come straight away?

The people who are doing the best job of promoting people smuggling are the Opposition - running around waving their hands in the air saying the government is weak on border security.

I didn't say the numbers don't matter, I suggested you put them in perspective. In 2008, of the 382,670 people that applied for asylum in industrialized countries4,750 were in Australia, that's 1.24 percent. That's not counting Africa, South Asia or the Middle East where the majority of the world's refugees are. Australia is hardly in danger of being overwhelmed.

I bet the people that come through your doors from all around the world use a lot more water than the asylum seekers. Should we ask them to stay at home too?

Maybe the country should stop handing out $5,000 for people to have children, that might reduce some of the pressure on resources (almost 300,000 babies were born in 2008 - the most ever). Whose brilliant idea was that?

[Mallee Boy]

Well I guess we can go on here til the cows come home Mike.
You have your opinion, I have mine, and neither of us are about to change it.
Cheers

PS: but....if you cant differentiate between the issues of baby bonus & tourism industry and illegal immigration then heaven help you.

[RichardS]

Is he the Obama's twin brother?

Worse. Much worse. Take Obama and remove any sign of personality. Add massive insecurity problems, a pathetic tendency to boast, a malicious bully, a shocking liar (even his fan-boy fellow travelers are talking about 'mis-speaking'), the fiscal responsibility of a drunken sailor on a spree and a vainglorious determination to be someone, and you wouldn't even begin to understand the depths of his nastiness.

[Ash]

Indeed, there has to be a refugee and immigrant management plan. It's not fair to compare percentages or absolute numbers of refugee intake between countries - it's more aptly compared per capita, and we may be surprised at the figures.

Consider how Australia must cope infrastructurally and economically - support systems, financial privileges, health care requirements, etc. There's more to the immigration process than just the numbers that come in.

Australia is very generous in many more situations than just for having a baby and unemployment. Some controversial yet politically charged (like the tax exemption for the Church of Scientology debate going on at the moment).

This refugee issue is but one significant problem. And it's not about to go away, so it needs to be dealt with just as seriously as its repercussions should indicate.

Worse. Much worse. Take Obama and remove any sign of personality. Add massive insecurity problems, a pathetic tendency to boast, a malicious bully, a shocking liar (even his fan-boy fellow travelers are talking about 'mis-speaking'), the fiscal responsibility of a drunken sailor on a spree and a vainglorious determination to be someone, and you wouldn't even begin to understand the depths of his nastiness.

Then why is he in office? Or do you just have the same problem there with liberals?

[lithos]

Then why is he in office? Or do you just have the same problem there with liberals?

Aye. Liberals here tend to be a bit backward.

Aye. Liberals here tend to be a bit backward.

Think that holds true for libs in general no matter what country. But as I have said before I do agree with them that we should get all get along. They give up their beliefs and agree with me and we can all get along.

[lithos]

Of course, the easy answer to your question, graphics, would be "He got in the same way Dubya got in," except there weren't numerous recounts and controversy regarding the electoral process. I'm not sure if Diebold was involved.

You'll note that there's been little favouritism towards any particular side simply because that side resides on a certain part of the political spectrum, either. Our voting system kind of reflects our tall-poppy syndrome: it's not so much as picking who like, rather, it's ranking who you think will stuff up less. Preferential voting.

Generally, our political system lacks the production values of the US. I'm not sure we have any permanent pundits on TV who sling in behind a certain candidate. Not ones that actually matter, anyway. Papers, sure, but the media ownership laws in this country are a very large elephant in a very small room. Incidentally, most of it's owned by the same guys who own Fox News. We once had a kid hug a PM while holding a screwdriver, which is about as close to taking an assault rifle to an rally as we get.

Political campaigning is a bit different, too. You won't find anyone crying, overcome with emotion at our campaigns, because, at the end of the day, they're all a bunch of bastards.

Howard was in for eleven years, but had run his course (coupled with the fact most of us were deathly afraid of Costello, the war in Iraq which started off pointless, and the Great Telstra Debacle, the uneasy truce with Nationals, IR laws, stealing policy from One Nation, &c, &c.)

Now you've got Rudd, who has the on-camera personality of a sheet of Gyprock, an off camera fetish for quickly-delivered hairdryers, a running deficit, an Pommy c*nt for a telecommunications minister (sold his soul to concerned idiot mothers for votes, working on a gigantic broadband scheme which may or may not work, if we need to reduce our population we should start with deporting Mr. Conroy, I say,) and Peter f*cking Garrett, who threatened to start dancing in parliament if his demands are not met ("No! NOOOOO! We'll...we'll do anything,") and who is perhaps the walking (or, indeed, jerkily twitching,) bald definition of "selling out," and myriad university-campus grade politicos (the kind of people who turned me centrist.)

We do have a few independents who hold a few strategic positions, and occasionally get to do things like listen to the voters, because there arses are on the line. Xenophon comes to mind. There are those...mentally...disquietened persons in Family First (free advice: if any politcal part has "Family" in its name, run like hell.) You've also got Wilson Tuckey, who is technically part of the Coalition, but this is rarely admitted to in public by Turnbull if he can help it.

Which sort've explains why no one here's professed a liking for a specific side, merely who was better or worse, and the pros and cons of each. We rarely throw around terms like right or left wing.

We still don't have nuclear powerplants, either. We're still last in the developed world for broadband, and our healthcare's getting picked to death. Army's still in the NT. Channel 9's no longer doing the cricket. And I just saw the first eastern brown of the season on Sunday.

So he's no better than the Big O is what you're saying.

[Wheatfield]

Think that holds true for libs in general no matter what country. But as I have said before I do agree with them that we should get all get along. They give up their beliefs and agree with me and we can all get along.

Actually, it's the Conservatives that tend to be backwards. It's why they bleat like stuck pigs every time someone comes along who wants to change their precious status quo.

Actually, it's the Conservatives that tend to be backwards. It's why they bleat like stuck pigs every time someone comes along who wants to change their precious status quo.

I just love the Dems logo though. An ass. Fitting.

[Ash]

We still don't have nuclear powerplants, either. We're still last in the developed world for broadband, and our healthcare's getting picked to death. Army's still in the NT. Channel 9's no longer doing the cricket. And I just saw the first eastern brown of the season on Sunday.

Woh. Passionate, aren't ya mate?

We can't be all that bad. Even in Qld, being 10 years and 1 hr behind NSW, there's a lot going for it. We probably don't need nuclear power just yet. Broadband's coming along just fine. Health Care in Australia is the envy of much of the world. Defence will have a presence in NT for years to come, for more reasons than one. You must be cut about the cricket, eh? Life sounds miserable for you because of this dry bloke in power who looks like a koala...

Hope you didn't want that eastern brown to bite you!

Woh. Passionate, aren't ya mate?

We can't be all that bad. Even in Qld, being 10 years and 1 hr behind NSW, there's a lot going for it. We probably don't need nuclear power just yet. Broadband's coming along just fine. Health Care in Australia is the envy of much of the world. Defence will have a presence in NT for years to come, for more reasons than one. You must be cut about the cricket, eh? Life sounds miserable for you because of this dry bloke in power who looks like a koala...

Hope you didn't want that eastern brown to bite you!

Is any of this English?

[Mike L]

Well I guess we can go on here til the cows come home Mike.
You have your opinion, I have mine, and neither of us are about to change it.
Cheers.

Well, I agree with you there. Neither of us are going to change our opinion because of what someone says on the interweb but I highly recommend you not give too much credence to "facts" in media reports or politicians speeches. The "facts" tend to be distorted to suit an agenda or are overly simplifications of complex issues that go beyond our little patch of dirt.

PS: but....if you cant differentiate between the issues of baby bonus & tourism industry and illegal immigration then heaven help you.

Thanks but I've got all the help I need from heavan, but if you're so concerned about water and other resources being scarce surely you can see negatives of paying people to have children. While it's a long bow to draw tourists (about 35,000 per annum of whom overstay their visas and become "illegals") consume a lot more of your precious SE Queensland water than 2,000 boat arrivals.

Methinks it's time to go and take some photos.

[Mallee Boy]

Hi Mike,
Not wanting to drag this out into a Blue Hills type saga (because, yeah, I too would rather be taking photos)...but...I do have to disagree with a few of your points.

The point is not about this current crop of a "couple of thousand" hapless souls washing up on our shores...as I said in my earlier post, I am happy to see the refugee (call them what you like) intake increased and speeded up. But to not make a strong statement on our border integrity is to create the perception that we are a soft touch which in turn encourages more smugglers to get involved, and if we dont control that we only need to look to Europe to see the consequences....I believe that is the point.

As for the opposition creating the impression of being soft by raising the issue....please!..., was it not one K Rudd all over my TV screens when he was in opposition & election mode lamenting about how tough and inhumane our border protection policies were? Was it not one K Rudd then giving the very clear impression that he was going to make it easier....that was certainly the message I got, and I guess the same message the people smugglers got. So lets be a little bit fair here, this is Rudd's policy, this is what he wanted and this is the result and consequences of his policy...not Howards. Rudd has achieved this all by himself.

I would love nothing more than to see Rudd & Turnbull sit down and work out and agree on a policy that the parliament could endorse as the Australian Policy...not Labour or Liberal....but in this day & age of spin, smoke & mirrors that is highly unlikely.

And that is the saddest part of this whole saga.

Now....what camera do you own and where do you shoot..??

Cheers