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12-19-2009, 02:57 PM   #1
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Health Reform-We All Lost

This "Thingy" the are about to pass is nothing short of an abortion in writing. It fails to satisfy the needs of America, it fails to bring down costs, it fails to enable competition, and it fails to bring affordable health care to the masses, and in fact will lessen the benefits most of us already have. The only winners are the Big Insurance Companies and the losers are most all Americans except for the ultra rich, that don't require health insurance anyhow.
Just as there was failure here to reach any agreement on what needed to be accomplished, our Government also failed to work for a comprehensive plan that would serve us all. Conservatives can't be pleased with this piece of crapola and neither can liberals. Both parties have stuffed their pockets full of lobbyist cash for the entire period of debate, and that seems to be all they really ever cared about......making the best use of a National Crisis by lining their pockets.

If you like this stinking piece of junk, please tell me why? Don't concentrate on who got it wrong, we already know they all got it wrong, unless you think it is going to help you and your family...so tell me how you think it is better than nothing at all?

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12-19-2009, 03:32 PM   #2
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I haven't read the entire bill, but I suspect that your assertions are possible. The whole 'we make money when you get sick' idea is pretty crude. There must be a better way to do this.

Last edited by dragonfly; 12-19-2009 at 03:56 PM.
12-19-2009, 03:34 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote

If you like this stinking piece of junk, please tell me why? Don't concentrate on who got it wrong, we already know they all got it wrong, unless you think it is going to help you and your family...so tell me how you think it is better than nothing at all?

Regards
Rupert
you got this one right, Rupert. Nothing at all would be better than this. Surprise, surprise, surprise, the politicians made things worse instead of better.
12-19-2009, 03:42 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by dragonfly Quote
I haven't read the entire bill, but I suspect that your assertions are possible.
I suspect you are not the only one who hasn't read the entire bill. I'd be surprised if anyone who voting on the bill has read AND understands the entire bill.

I actually tried to read the original 2000+ page bill. But, without the library of congress and a team of lawyers it's an exercise in futility. You're just going to have to trust the wise and all-knowing politicians.

12-19-2009, 03:43 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
This "Thingy" the are about to pass is nothing short of an abortion in writing. It fails to satisfy the needs of America, it fails to bring down costs, it fails to enable competition, and it fails to bring affordable health care to the masses, and in fact will lessen the benefits most of us already have. The only winners are the Big Insurance Companies and the losers are most all Americans except for the ultra rich, that don't require health insurance anyhow.
Just as there was failure here to reach any agreement on what needed to be accomplished, our Government also failed to work for a comprehensive plan that would serve us all. Conservatives can't be pleased with this piece of crapola and neither can liberals. Both parties have stuffed their pockets full of lobbyist cash for the entire period of debate, and that seems to be all they really ever cared about......making the best use of a National Crisis by lining their pockets.

If you like this stinking piece of junk, please tell me why? Don't concentrate on who got it wrong, we already know they all got it wrong, unless you think it is going to help you and your family...so tell me how you think it is better than nothing at all?

Regards
Rupert
I really don't know what to say about this, Rupert. The last time we discussed this subject we were on opposite sides and I was the bad guy and an obstructionist. Now it seems we agree although my opinion hasn't changed. The fact that this bill was crafted by one side of the political spectrum without allowing input from the other; was driven by special interests and had an artificial deadline was a bad omen from the start. Then when it looked like there wasn't enough votes, backroom deals were made. Yes, it's a steaming pile of crap.

The only question now is how can we stop this before it's too late. Unfortunately, it may already be too late.
12-19-2009, 04:20 PM   #6
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I think I can say, and say with pride that we have some legislatures that bring higher prices than any in the world. - Mark Twain

Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate; now what's going to happen to us with both a Senate and a House? - Will Rogers

This heath care mistake along with the finance bill that absolutely no one who voted on it read are perfect examples of how broken our legislature really is. It's always been my desire to see a congress made up by the opposite party of the president. Democratic president - republican congress....republican president - democratic congress. Personally, I want an these two branches to not agree on anything to avoid this type of crap being rammed through and voted on by people who don't really give a damn about you and me. After all, wasn't it Mark Twain who also said, "The only time mankind is truly safe is when the legislature is not in session."

CW
12-19-2009, 07:04 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by straightshooter Quote

Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate; now what's going to happen to us with both a Senate and a House? - Will Rogers

Too bad Will Rogers didn't seem to know Rome had a bicameral system, too. If a weakened one. If you read that quote, at least, you might get the impression he didn't know that.



QuoteQuote:
This heath care mistake h
The only 'health care mistake' was allowing the corporations and conservatives to whittle it down to not-much that can be called reform at *all.*


Maybe you've preserved the interests that make fortunes profiting off the sick. Don't blame the 'liberals' in America for trying to do better. It's clear who obstructed *better* actually *happening* in all this time.


Bon appetit.



Poor Will Rogers, though. A remarkable wit, (even if too often he'd be 'witty' about things which were untrue,) getting a terrible reputation as a posthumous Neocon.

Ennit funny, though.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 12-19-2009 at 07:11 PM.
12-19-2009, 09:28 PM   #8
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There is no doubt that neither party wanted to cooperate with the other on Health reform. One wanted to avoid any chance of giving the other credit for repairing the broken health system, and the other wanted to ram through what they wanted and take all the credit. Both sides are now guilty of selling out the American people with this jokester of a bill that almost no legislator can understand,..... and we certainly can't. It is a farce of gigantic proportions and is likely to bankrupt America and do more harm than good......that last part is almost certainly guaranteed. Putting as many as 30 million people on Medicaid is not an answer to this problem, it is a formula for the destruction of the entire system. This bill sucks.....sucks the life out of an already terminal patient. Don't go blaming one side or the other, this was a joint effort at failure, and both parties succeeded.
Regards

12-19-2009, 09:59 PM   #9
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Some things just didn't have to be about 'sides.'


Now it's likely there will be unnecessary suffering.

But we had that before. In spades.

Some will say, 'See, Government is bad, unless it serves big money.'


They also don't know what they have. And I pray the rest of us don't have to be object lessons for catching the conscience of those who purport to represent a King.

But here we are.


Happy?
12-19-2009, 10:58 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
There is no doubt that neither party wanted to cooperate with the other on Health reform. One wanted to avoid any chance of giving the other credit for repairing the broken health system, and the other wanted to ram through what they wanted and take all the credit. Both sides are now guilty of selling out the American people with this jokester of a bill that almost no legislator can understand,..... and we certainly can't. It is a farce of gigantic proportions and is likely to bankrupt America and do more harm than good......that last part is almost certainly guaranteed. Putting as many as 30 million people on Medicaid is not an answer to this problem, it is a formula for the destruction of the entire system. This bill sucks.....sucks the life out of an already terminal patient. Don't go blaming one side or the other, this was a joint effort at failure, and both parties succeeded.
Regards
Rupert this bill is almost entirely upon the socialists. Pelosi/Obama got 60 votes for cloture. However they will only need a majority to get it on The Big O's desk for his signature. Why do it this way? Because they theoretically can protect the asses who are likely to not get reelected. But as evidenced by the reelections of Pelosi, Franks, Kennedy, the libs are too stupid to throw the bums out.

One thing is definite. We will have equal healthcare. All garbage.
12-19-2009, 11:13 PM   #11
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Rupert's right, everyone lost except the few who have bigger bank balances as a result of everyone losing. But let's face it, by and large Americans are born losers and I don't mean that as an insult. For nearly sixty years the powers that be have been implementing a program of dumbing down the masses by messing with their education and using the media to scare them as a way of control. We are now seeing probably the third (or maybe fourth) generation becoming adults where the majority are purebred dumbasses.
I do feel sad because I have a choice, if things get too bad, I'll just move back to Europe and not have to worry about my healthcare. But I'll do that with regret because this is the place where I chose to live, maybe if I had known how bad things really were, I wouldn't have moved here in the first place.
12-19-2009, 11:52 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Rupert this bill is almost entirely upon the socialists. Pelosi/Obama got 60 votes for cloture. However they will only need a majority to get it on The Big O's desk for his signature. Why do it this way? Because they theoretically can protect the asses who are likely to not get reelected. But as evidenced by the reelections of Pelosi, Franks, Kennedy, the libs are too stupid to throw the bums out.

One thing is definite. We will have equal healthcare. All garbage.
I do not agree with you that you can assign blame for this bastardized bill on "Socialists". That is pure nonsense, considering that conservatives spent the entire first half of the debate and construction of a bill telling America that there is no problem with the Healthcare system as it is. Just how constructive was that? Maybe you guys could have presented some decent ideas and compromised enough to get us a workable program? Your kind of thinking is what is wrong in Washington, and it is on the left and on the right. I want my side to work for the common good and if that means working with the right, then let's do it.....are you saying you don't want to have it anyway but your way, even if it destroys the country? That is what a lot of people think conservatives have been saying ever since a Black man stepped into the Whitehouse.....surely you're not one of those are you?
Regards!
12-19-2009, 11:52 PM   #13
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The Lowlights, please.

I have to admit that I've been busier than usual with crap and have been out of the loop on.... everything.

What's in this bill specifically that you don't agree with, Rupert? Give me a quick itemization of the bad bullet points. Graphic , you do the same. I'm tired, lazy, and certainly will not read anything but the Cliff's Notes version anyway if the bill itself is as obtuse as I suspect.
12-20-2009, 12:11 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I have to admit that I've been busier than usual with crap and have been out of the loop on.... everything.

What's in this bill specifically that you don't agree with, Rupert? Give me a quick itemization of the bad bullet points. Graphic , you do the same. I'm tired, lazy, and certainly will not read anything but the Cliff's Notes version anyway if the bill itself is as obtuse as I suspect.
Well, you sure don't want to count on this place for the straight and skinny on political facts of life. I suggest you take a little time to study up on it for yourself, where you can make your own determinations. Not that Graphic or Rupert would lie to you, but there is little doubt that they are both biased in their opinions, and while not outright lying to you, they might stretch the facts like a big wad of Double Bubble on a hot Texas sidewalk....

There is so much wrong with this bill that I could easier list what is right........................................................................................................................


Did you see that? Well that is what is right with this stinking piece of twisted payola.
It is a total sham and worthless to most Americans. It won't hold down costs, it will increase them, it won't help the poor unless they get themselves a high paying job, it won't strengthen Medicare, it will destroy it, it won't aid those with pre-existing conditions unless they can afford triple the premiums they might normally pay. It will raise your taxes to potentially give up to 30 million people Medicaid...but won't fund the expense to states, so no one will take Medicaid in a few short years...why should they? Will you work for free? I sure won't. Of course, if you live in Nebraska, your state will be funded for the expanded Medicaid.....read all about it, it will make your blood boil.
Regards!
12-20-2009, 12:26 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Rupert this bill is almost entirely upon the socialists.

Now all you need to do is *find* some.


Or do you? Imagining has done fine in the past, for all it's worth.

Claim your 'victory,' Graphics. (Not that it had anything to do with you calling people 'commies.' )

Enjoy the sweet, sweet tears of the innocent.
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