There were what, 5 Republican terms after Carter and 2 Democratic terms?
Regan had 2 terms, Shrub Sr had a term and Shrub Jr had a couple of terms.
It doesn't speak well for Republicans if they can't keep things running the way you want when they are in office for 28 years compared to 8 years of Democratic presidents.
In fact, to one who doesn't automatically pick up anyones bags, it actually kinda looks like the Republicans were probably just as bad, if not worse than the Democrats.

Not in this lifetime.
Won't happen.
I like being offensive.

I think it's safe to say that we can agree that one thing US presidents like to do is order in the bombers for diplomatic missions.

Yep, 5 Republican terms and only 2 Democratic terms. See how fast the jackasses can screw it up.

But again it was a Republican that tried to rein it in. Not a jack ass. It was however a jack ass that lied right to the American people about the solvency of Freddie and Fannie.

[Wheatfield]

Yep, 5 Republican terms and only 2 Democratic terms. See how fast the jackasses can screw it up.

Ialso see how unable the jackasses on the other side are completely incompetent about fixing what you consider a screw up.
The Republicans who were at the helm for almost 3 decades were either totally incompetent morons or else didn't see anything was screwed up (which may well be the same as being an incompetent moron).
The fact is, after Carter, you had three Republican presidents and one Democrat president.
Whatever Carter did wrong, the Republicans had ample time to fix it. Rather than do that, they just continued to let the train wreck happen.
You can't just blame one party with any credibility when your own guys had something like 350% more time in office.

But again it was a Republican that tried to rein it in. Not a jack ass. It was however a jack ass that lied right to the American people about the solvency of Freddie and Fannie.

They are all jack asses. it doesn't matter which side of the fence they are on. The political fence is really just a stall in the barn to make it easy to figure out which jackass is which.
They all drink from the same trough, and they all feed from the same pile of hay, and they all have a vested interest in keeping people like you thinking it's the other guy's fault because that way they don't actually have to have any accountability.
The Dems blame the Reps, the Reps blame the Dems, the sycophants on both sides bray out the party line and your politicians on both sides continue to run their corrupt little games, safe in the knowledge that no one can thinking critically enough to figure it out as long as they are braying like jackasses themselves at the top of their lungs.

[Blue]

I've long known personally many farmers and hobby farm folks who own a farm just to collect government money. They do not want to show a profit at any and all costs to collect their checks. But after reading this article, there seems to be a bit of hypocrisy where some of our elected officials are concerned. If welfare is to be eliminated, we need to get rid of these farm subsidies too. Michele Bachmann and Chuck Grassley...really.

Michele Bachmann: Welfare Queen - Truthdig

these people give REAL hardworking farmers a bad name.

The federal role in agriculture is a lot more complicated than most average citizen has a clue about. For one thing, a substantial part of the USDA budget goes to support the Food Stamp program. Another major portion has to do with crop insurance. It is easy to say cut out the subsidies on the "small grower" over a few bad apples. But the fact the matter is that its the exception and not the rule. On top of that, there is this push for mini-farms with an organic bend that is being pushed hard and has been for the past 18 years.

Even corn based agriculture is a lot more complicated than DB understands. So is wheat and rice.

The point I'm making is that the U.S. doesn't need screw up its Agriculture base. The last thing we want is foreign dependency on food and fiber like we are seeing with oil. For example, the mission of the Land Grant Universities is in a major part to insure a safe supply of food and fiber for the U.S.A. The biggest thing to help would be to get the non-Ag earmarks out of the Ag budget.

[Ratmagiclady]

And you all get on board, blaming the other guy for the problem, when the reality is, they are all a bunch of screw ups.
And it never occurs to anyone to just demand better.
This is the stupidity of mindless partisanship, and no one does it better than you guys.

Well, don't forget that the pattern also goes that whenever the Republicans are in, they call themselves 'the winners,' claim it's 'winner take all,' and refuse to represent any concerns but those they consider to have voted for them: then when Democrats are in, they whine, "You aren't being bipartisan enough, give us what we wanted, anyway," and start claiming, "It's all politicians who are bad, cause of what we insisted on doing, .... Especially the other guy. So it's really their fault, after all, do more of what got us into this mess."

Since the new administration took office, the Republicans have used filibuster threats to 'raise the bar' to needing a 'supermajority' to get anything done, then call it a 'victory.'

Of course, the Dems are notoriously-ineffectual, since while they are not favored by most big corporations, they're still way too beholden to them (and there's the real fact that things are set up so the big money kind of has the nation over a barrel in terms of certain realities) ...but really most notably, it's not Democratic *policy* to 'stick together, the party is always right, no one else counts,' as it is for the GOP. There's actually a lot of Dems who still believe it's their job to represent their *entire* constituencies, not just those who voted for them. ...So, as a party, they don't play 'hardball.'

Much to the frustration of the more liberal Americans, I might add. (Which is how the meme catches on that it's 'politicians in general' rather than *policies* that got us into these messes.)

It's actually the Republicans who attract most of the people who want to say "My side is always right, right or wrong," generally are misinformed on the issues they're voting about, even down to the actual text of these 'referenda' that the conservatives force when things don't go their way in government or the judiciary) (All you have to do is poll them on their positions and how they'd vote in the 'hypothetical situation' that the facts are as they are, and you find out they aren't such 'conservatives' as they're claimed to be: those most disinformed are overwhelmingly Fox viewers, too.)

What this means is the GOP attracts most of the 'win at all costs' types, (even if they attempt to project this on Democrats, it falls flat to any liberal) ....and the Democratic party gets the compromisers and people who see nuance: in fact, the DNC is more like what would be considered a 'coalition' in a parliamentary setting, than a 'party' in the strictest sense, except when it comes to the all-important fundraising and campaigning.



It ends up is a bit like the difference between Red Sox fans and Yankees fans: the Yankees fans, (when talking to anyone outside NY, anyway) are convinced the 'Yankees are the best team ever, however they're doing,' ....Sox fans want to beat the Yankees.


The GOP will even claim to be the 'party of Lincoln' while opposing any pluralism or diversity in any form, when it comes to policies and rhetoric, *just because of the name,* and go so far as to call the Democratic party *racist* .... as if the racists among the Southern Democrats didn't become Republicans before I was born because the DNC rejected these agendas.

It's about *flags* to the conservatives, basically. Most liberals don't consider the Democrats to be any great bargain, either, just a whole lot better than the alternative.

Personally, I consider myself a Green. (If there's no danger of a conservative winning in a local election, I vote that way, in fact) I'm a registered Democrat cause the Greens aren't much of a factor in national politics.

So, basically, there *is* a difference. The 'elephant in the room' is that the *divisions* in our nation are manufactured by the Right and the corporate media. Many people are absolutists and desire things to be simple... (And they'll go to convoluted lengths to justify their 'side,' )

Typically, the Dems will end up cleaning up expensive messes the Republicans made, but didn't want to be taxed for. They the Republicans say, a month into a Democratic term, 'You didn't fix it, you're just tax and spend,' (as opposed to their... 'Spend and spend') policies.

It's really about *dominance.* And who identifies with it. Whether it works or not.

Typically, the GOP pols somehow get a lot of support by accusing someone *else* of what they've done, themselves, (For instance, 'swiftboating' a Medal of Honor winner while electing a draft dodger as a 'War president' and hiding his records, or, oh, I dunno, acting like the poor are to be screwed, record-profit-making and often-corrupt corporations in finance, energy, and health need 'bailouts,' claim their opponents are 'soft on crime/terror' while cutting police budgets, themselves, saying, 'The Dems are against 'religious freedom,' because they don't want the government to make obeying conservative Christianity *mandatory,* ...It's gays that want everyone to be the same orientation as themselves' ) then spinning fears of what someone else 'might' do.

Like I've said before, the worst fear of a bully is that someone they abuse as 'weaker' is going to turn around and treat them the same way. These assertions, 'Politicians are all the same,' are generally meant to blunt Democratic resolve, as things get down to brass tacks and a lot of Dems are inclined to say, 'Kick the bums out.'

Also, of course, to deflect blame from what the Republicans did with their "Permanent majority" and "Imperial Presidency" and proudly claimed credit for... until it crashed.

[Rupert]

I see tons of right wing denial in this thread....no matter what it is that is screwed, it must have been caused by the Democrats....right?

I am betting that every right wing wingnut here is still claiming "Mission Accomplished" and planning a vacation to Baghdad so they can be showered with flowers from the adoring Iraqi citizens for the tremendos job we have done at destroying their country.......right again? And almost 4500 parents are thanking George in their nightly prayers for the opportunity to sacrifice their children for such a noble cause as Big Oil and Big Ego....right again? Or maybe they are thankful for the wonderful job that George and Party did in Afghanistan of defeating the terrorists that brought us 911......still another right again? Or maybe it is on the economic front where all those that have given a 20-50% reduction in their 401K's to Wall Street Bush buddies now rest at night much better knowing that their hard earned cash went to "Needy Executives".....still on the right track here?

Yes, there are so many things the Republicans have to be proud of.....actually too many to count, unless you count the unemployed and the homeless...where you can put a face with the figures. No wonder we see such massive denial on this Forum.....Frankly, I would be ashamed to show my face here and appear to be as clueless as the party of "NO", but when FIX News tell you that you are the "Fruit of the Earth". I guess that you have to believe it....right once more? You guys ever sucked a lemon....they didn't tell you about those, did they?
Regards!

I see tons of right wing denial in this thread....no matter what it is that is screwed, it must have been caused by the Democrats....right?

I am betting that every right wing wingnut here is still claiming "Mission Accomplished" and planning a vacation to Baghdad so they can be showered with flowers from the adoring Iraqi citizens for the tremendos job we have done at destroying their country.......right again? And almost 4500 parents are thanking George in their nightly prayers for the opportunity to sacrifice their children for such a noble cause as Big Oil and Big Ego....right again? Or maybe they are thankful for the wonderful job that George and Party did in Afghanistan of defeating the terrorists that brought us 911......still another right again? Or maybe it is on the economic front where all those that have given a 20-50% reduction in their 401K's to Wall Street Bush buddies now rest at night much better knowing that their hard earned cash went to "Needy Executives".....still on the right track here?

Yes, there are so many things the Republicans have to be proud of.....actually too many to count, unless you count the unemployed and the homeless...where you can put a face with the figures. No wonder we see such massive denial on this Forum.....Frankly, I would be ashamed to show my face here and appear to be as clueless as the party of "NO", but when FIX News tell you that you are the "Fruit of the Earth". I guess that you have to believe it....right once more? You guys ever sucked a lemon....they didn't tell you about those, did they?
Regards!

Well the facts seem to bear out where the majority of the blame is. Unless you're just blind or don't bother to read.

Let's see The Big O said if we didn't pass gas I mean his bill unemployment would go to 10%. And we're at 11%+ now. Of course that fails to include the underemployed and those that stopped looking.

We could have saved a lot of money by not listening to the Messiah.

But let's also forget that everything he's doing is what caused the Depression to last 7 years longer than needed. And caused Japan's "Lost Decade"

But who cares about history?

[Ratmagiclady]

But let's also forget that everything he's doing is what caused the Depression to last 7 years longer than needed. And caused Japan's "Lost Decade"

But who cares about history?

So, now Obama, who as you claimed in the elections 'hasn't done anything' is doing what 'extended a necessary Depression,' even if even Wall-Street figures say we're no longer in recession?

Maybe look at what you were saying *last year* before you go talking about 'history.'

So, now Obama, who as you claimed in the elections 'hasn't done anything' is doing what 'extended a necessary Depression,' even if even Wall-Street figures say we're no longer in recession?

Maybe look at what you were saying *last year* before you go talking about 'history.'

If we're out of the recession then he shouldn't need another stimulus and he should return the 80% left.

[Ratmagiclady]

If we're out of the recession then he shouldn't need another stimulus and he should return the 80% left.

The problem is... 'recessions' are defined by *Wall Street* terms. Just cause they're making money again and aren't holding quite the gun to everyone's mortgage, doesn't mean the economy is working yet at ground level.

I see tons of right wing denial in this thread....no matter what it is that is screwed, it must have been caused by the Democrats....right?

I see tons of denial from both sides (I do appreciate that you are left leaning but still are able to see the transparency of the situation Rupert).
The truth is, both sides in this argument are fighting while at the same time taking it in the arse from the politicians and big money as usual. By dividing you all, the politicians have won and there is no incentive for them to change. It's about time people started to try and come together on the issues that are effecting all of you (me included to an extent) and force those that represent you to actually represent you.

[Wheatfield]

I see tons of denial from both sides (I do appreciate that you are left leaning but still are able to see the transparency of the situation Rupert).
The truth is, both sides in this argument are fighting while at the same time taking it in the arse from the politicians and big money as usual. By dividing you all, the politicians have won and there is no incentive for them to change. It's about time people started to try and come together on the issues that are effecting all of you (me included to an extent) and force those that represent you to actually represent you.

Divide and conquer is the oldest and most successful method of staying in power.
Add in the bogeyman of the moment and the politicians have a win/win situation.
I doubt very much if the politicians themselves really care at all about which party is in power at the moment. Either way, they get theirs, and a whole bunch of yours as a bonus.
They also know that for the most part, the general public has the memory of a fish, so yesterdays crooked Republican president will be forgotten in a few years, and then they can haul out their next crooked Golden Boy to replace the Democrat's crooked president, and by the time that rat has too much baggage to haul around, the public will have forgotten about the last crooked president and the wheel will just continue to turn, well lubricated with pork fat.
It's funny, you guys went to great pains to take out an evil dictator in the Middle East, but the reality is, as evil as Hussein was, he was more honest than Bush.
Hussein never lied about being a monster, while Bush never told the truth about anything, and it's starting to look like Obama is just going to be GWB with reading skills.

[Rupert]

I see tons of denial from both sides (I do appreciate that you are left leaning but still are able to see the transparency of the situation Rupert).
The truth is, both sides in this argument are fighting while at the same time taking it in the arse from the politicians and big money as usual. By dividing you all, the politicians have won and there is no incentive for them to change. It's about time people started to try and come together on the issues that are effecting all of you (me included to an extent) and force those that represent you to actually represent you.

I can agree with you there Britt, and if you have followed my posts, I have offered up several admissions of leftist failure along with that of the right, but I get few if any takers on admission of guilt on the right. It is the same old "My Party Right or Wrong" sort of rhetoric that keeps the Washington crowd safe from our outrage, no matter which side is in control or what they do with our money and our lives. I am more than willing to start calling both parties into accountability, but I need a little help from the other side and they appear totally unwilling. This leads me to believe that their posturing is in reality what the believe and not just dogma. Sort of scary, isn't it?
Regards!

Sort of scary, isn't it?
Regards!

Yes. Even scarier, so many of them seem to choose Pentax.

[Blue]

Yes. Even scarier, so many of them seem to choose Pentax.

So the thread is officially off of "Farmer Welfare" . . .

[Rupert]

Yes. Even scarier, so many of them seem to choose Pentax.

Thanks for that Britt.....At long last, I have found "Common Ground" here on this General Forum! Thank you Pentax! Bringing us together one shooter at a time!
Regards!