[thazooo]

I suppose you too are 100% correct, but wouldn't it be nice if it wasn't so. I know I make many personal decions that are not based on money alone, and others do also...is it too much to ask that our elected leaders do the same?
Regards!

It's not too much to ask and should be demanded, but unless we in the USA start voting some of the Long Term Fools out of office, Ban business donation, and install Term Limits nothing will change. They're all interested in lining their own pockets and could care less about the people that put then there. Everybody's so polarized now that we argue with ourselves and the Politicians do what they want with our money. Putting as much as possible in their pockets.

[Ratmagiclady]

Just as a side note, I recall living in Stephenville in 1975 and reading an article in Time Magazine, rather long, about the coming wave of terrorism against America from the Middle East. At the time it seemed a little far fetched. I'm sure it could be found in their archives, and I am amazed at the accuracy of their predictions. I wonder why our Government couldn't or wouldn't see this all coming?
Regards!

At the time GE wanted nuclear plants: lots of them. And Detroit whined about CAFE and safety standards, so they could say 'Buy American!' and offer us a Chevette, then pretend 'Nothing's happening, let's bust unions!' when oil prices went down... Then offer us *much bigger Chevettes.*

Like a rock.

Makes a good boat anchor, as they'd say. While voting Republican.

[Ratmagiclady]

It's not too much to ask and should be demanded, but unless we in the USA start voting some of the Long Term Fools out of office, Ban business donation, and install Term Limits nothing will change.

Yes on one, no on two. 'Term limits' only encourage demagoguery. Cutting the corporate finance, on the other hand...


That's something that'd change things. Fast.

[gokenin]

Yes on one, no on two. 'Term limits' only encourage demagoguery. Cutting the corporate finance, on the other hand...


That's something that'd change things. Fast.

wonders why its ok to limit a President to 8 years but its acceptable to leave a Senator in there for 20,30,40,50 years? I dont think that the long term Senator is really serving the people anymore when you have been in office for as long as some of your voters have been alive they no longer vote for you they simply know nothing but having you in office so they just vote for you because their parents and their grandparents voted for you. There should be term limits on all federal positions if they know there life is limited then the incentive to make change during their time there they may actually increase the pace of legislation instead of the glacier pace that Washington moves now.

[Mallee Boy]

So where does it all end?

Lets say for the arguments sake that all troops around the world of any nationality, all pack up and head home next week.

What then? Will peace break out? or will we descend into tyranny and dictatorships?

Could everyone agree to draw a "line in the sand" and say, right, thats it, from today no more fighting, no recriminations, no revenge, no get square......or would the "war" just follow you home to your own back yard?

I think if you followed that money trail to its source we would all be dismayed at who is making what and from whom.

In my humble opinion I dont think it really matters who you elect as President, he/she is only a puppet of the vested interests, the faceless people who pull the strings and make the President jump.

Which one of you wanted to be sitting in that school room chair on Sept 11 when the secret service leant over and whispered the news in the Presidents ear...?

There is no doubt in my mind that that was the day that changed the world as I knew it. There is also no doubt that the countless billions that goes into war could and should be better spent on creating a better society....thye problem is none of us can agree on what is a "better society".....so the fight continues.

How we got here? well its of historical significance, but as already said, How We Get The Hell Out Of Here? that is the real question.

[Wheatfield]

So where does it all end?

Lets say for the arguments sake that all troops around the world of any nationality, all pack up and head home next week.

What then? Will peace break out? or will we descend into tyranny and dictatorships?

War would probably continue where it is happening now. The difference being, they would then be fighting each other instead of each other and us.
And the oil would probably stop for a while.
Some idiot or another might even set off a nuke or two.

Someone here wrote something to the effect that trying to sort out the middle east is like stirring a bucket of water. You can really appear to make things happen while you are doing it, but you aren't really changing anything.

[Cideway]

How We Get The Hell Out Of Here? that is the real question.

Generate a viable and cheap alternative to oil, more emphasis on alternative fuels and non-oil based composite materials and organic packaging... Once the dependence and need for oil dies down, the west's interest and interference in the middle east will wain and stability will come to the region.

[Ratmagiclady]

wonders why its ok to limit a President to 8 years but its acceptable to leave a Senator in there for 20,30,40,50 years? I dont think that the long term Senator is really serving the people anymore when you have been in office for as long as some of your voters have been alive they no longer vote for you they simply know nothing but having you in office so they just vote for you because their parents and their grandparents voted for you. There should be term limits on all federal positions if they know there life is limited then the incentive to make change during their time there they may actually increase the pace of legislation instead of the glacier pace that Washington moves now.

The fact is that inexperience can be as bad as ossification. For the 'Young Turks' of *any* party, there's always a period of coming in with big ideals and rhetoric, then 'learning the ropes' and finding out about the 'horse trading' and pragmatic realities. The way things are done now has its drawbacks on occasion, but the fact is that most people like their own Senators and Reps just fine. Everyone else, and 'politicians' are bums, but polls tend to show this again and again. (An exception being when constituencies are split by district boundaries, ...like in this town, split down the middle by gerrymandering to have it represented by someone elected by lots of countryside and little to no representation that represents the 'liberal' city. )

The system was thought out this way for some good reasons. Hardly perfection, but what is. Before worrying about term limits, though, it's the big and corporate donations and the *reliance* on big money for anyone to get or stay in office that must be addressed.

If we could just get some kind of real campaign finance reform, a lot of the problems that term limits hope to address will probably be ...Non-problems. Just imposing term limits only would mean that you have a *new* face beholden to the same big money interests once in a while.

Most of what *does* give incumbents an undue advantage comes down to the big money, anyway.

[Blue]

The fact is that inexperience can be as bad as ossification. For the 'Young Turks' of *any* party, there's always a period of coming in with big ideals and rhetoric, then 'learning the ropes' and finding out about the 'horse trading' and pragmatic realities. The way things are done now has its drawbacks on occasion, but the fact is that most people like their own Senators and Reps just fine. Everyone else, and 'politicians' are bums, but polls tend to show this again and again. (An exception being when constituencies are split by district boundaries, ...like in this town, split down the middle by gerrymandering to have it represented by someone elected by lots of countryside and little to no representation that represents the 'liberal' city. )

The system was thought out this way for some good reasons. Hardly perfection, but what is. Before worrying about term limits, though, it's the big and corporate donations and the *reliance* on big money for anyone to get or stay in office that must be addressed.

Its this "learning the ropes" and "horse trading" that ruins people. Its the beginning of corruption and pork trading. If people actually knew many of these clowns they wouldn't like them. About 1 in 5 of every one I have met are worth a shit as a human being.

As gar as the "system" goes, the original method for picking Senators was done by the Legislatures in the respective states because the Senators are actually there to represent their respective state while the House of Representatives represented the people from their states. That was part of the Republic design. The problem was that when the constitutional amendment passed to allow direct election of Senators, there were no term limits put in place and now it is a more difficult task because the House and Senate will oppose it. When term limits were imposed on the President, the House and Senate supported the Amendment.

The problem with elections serving as term limits is the "War Chests" the bastards accumulate while in office to the tunes of 10s of millions which makes it a serious battle for a challenger.

Look at Chris Dodd' 5 year spread:

Chris Dodd: Campaign Finance/Money - Summary - Senator 2010 | OpenSecrets



Then there is the "revolving door" problem:

Revolving Door Summary: Top Members | OpenSecrets

[Blue]

Generate a viable and cheap alternative to oil, more emphasis on alternative fuels and non-oil based composite materials and organic packaging... Once the dependence and need for oil dies down, the west's interest and interference in the middle east will wain and stability will come to the region.

One strategy would be to replicate what nature does to produce crude to come up with a synthetic crude.

I suppose you too are 100% correct, but wouldn't it be nice if it wasn't so. I know I make many personal decions that are not based on money alone, and others do also...is it too much to ask that our elected leaders do the same?
Regards!

No it's not Rupert. Too bad they vote to preserve their "legacy". Like what they're doing with this health care bill. Majority of people don't want it but they "think" they know better.

[Parallax]

Just as a side note, I recall living in Stephenville in 1975 and reading an article in Time Magazine, rather long, about the coming wave of terrorism against America from the Middle East. At the time it seemed a little far fetched. I'm sure it could be found in their archives, and I am amazed at the accuracy of their predictions. I wonder why our Government couldn't or wouldn't see this all coming?
Regards!

At the time GE wanted nuclear plants: lots of them. And Detroit whined about CAFE and safety standards, so they could say 'Buy American!' and offer us a Chevette, then pretend 'Nothing's happening, let's bust unions!' when oil prices went down... Then offer us *much bigger Chevettes.*

Like a rock.

Makes a good boat anchor, as they'd say. While voting Republican.

RML, WTH does that reply have to do with what Rupert said?
On a side note I do agree about the chevettes. That is why, for my 1 1/4 mile commute through town to my shop, I drive something practical. A quad cab Chevy pickup with their new 403 HP 6.2L engine. Zoom-Zoom! Oh, wait, that's my wife's Mazda MX-5.