[Phil1]

An interesting read:

By Jane Merrick


Sunday, 3 January 2010
The explosive device smuggled in the clothing of the Detroit bomb suspect would not have been detected by body-scanners set to be introduced in British airports, an expert on the technology warned last night.

The claim severely undermines Gordon Brown's focus on hi-tech scanners for airline passengers as part of his review into airport security after the attempted attack on Flight 253 on Christmas Day.

The Independent on Sunday has also heard authoritative claims that officials at the Department for Transport (DfT) and the Home Office have already tested the scanners and were not persuaded that they would work comprehensively against terrorist threats to aviation.

More:

Are planned airport scanners just a scam? - Home News, UK - The Independent

>>Since we are currently reactive rather than proactive on this, we will likely be adding many big buck scanners that the ACLU hates because they show ******l cleavage, breasts etc. Certainly body parts scattered over 3 or 4 miles is preferable. I would suggest the Yemenese bomber schools will simply move to body cavity explosives if they have not made the switch already.

It's doubtful we will be doing proper profiling and x-ray while we will be recycling AQ Gitmo prisoners back to Yemen. Catch and release only works for fish that you want more of next year. Maybe the Fish and Game folks should be in charge.

Ramzi the first WTC bomber said Americans are stupid. Looks like it's true.

Fool me once.....
I think we have been fooled about 30 times or so.

[Rupert]

An interesting read:

By Jane Merrick


Sunday, 3 January 2010
The explosive device smuggled in the clothing of the Detroit bomb suspect would not have been detected by body-scanners set to be introduced in British airports, an expert on the technology warned last night.

The claim severely undermines Gordon Brown's focus on hi-tech scanners for airline passengers as part of his review into airport security after the attempted attack on Flight 253 on Christmas Day.

The Independent on Sunday has also heard authoritative claims that officials at the Department for Transport (DfT) and the Home Office have already tested the scanners and were not persuaded that they would work comprehensively against terrorist threats to aviation.

More:

Are planned airport scanners just a scam? - Home News, UK - The Independent

>>Since we are currently reactive rather than proactive on this, we will likely be adding many big buck scanners that the ACLU hates because they show ******l cleavage, breasts etc. Certainly body parts scattered over 3 or 4 miles is preferable. I would suggest the Yemenese bomber schools will simply move to body cavity explosives if they have not made the switch already.

It's doubtful we will be doing proper profiling and x-ray while we will be recycling AQ Gitmo prisoners back to Yemen. Catch and release only works for fish that you want more of next year. Maybe the Fish and Game folks should be in charge.

Ramzi the first WTC bomber said Americans are stupid. Looks like it's true.

Fool me once.....
I think we have been fooled about 30 times or so.

Profiling is the answer...works for the Israelis, but we are much more "civilized" ....and often much more dead.
As for returning terrorists, it is interesting to note that you failed to mention that the recent Airline Bomber was trained by two terrorists that were released from Gitmo.......by your boy Jesus George. Just thought you might want everyone to know that Phil, being fair minded as your are....right?

And wasn't it your boy George that got all tongue tied with that "Fool me once..." jingle? What were his words...."Fool me once....Fool me twice...I'm a fool anyhow?" Something like that...someone can look it up, it was another embarrassing moment for Americans to view their President acting out the fool he was.
For a fair minded soul, you sure have some one sided vision Phil......maybe it is time for some reading glasses that don't screen out any negatives to your right wing propaganda? Just turning away from FIX news has been known to work wonders for bringing reality back to comatose minds.....
Regards

[Ratmagiclady]

I don't think you can pin this one on the ACLU... all this fixation on politicizing a foiled attack out of Amsterdam is...Well, Politics.

Fact is, Americans tend to have really big-time modesty issues and some idea that the human body is sinful to look at. As many were against these body-scanners for that reason as there are those who understandably don't particularly like the idea of the government peering inside their clothing.

I'm not entirely comfortable with it on the latter count, myself, but not enough to say 'No way,' ...Apparently they have a way to make these scanners display in a way that protects people's modesty, anyway.

There are other good things which can be done, chem-sniffers and dogs, for instance. A mixture of procedures, kept unpredictable, can really complicate things, especially considering that the intel-based profiling already in place really limits the bad guys' choices in operatives they could expect to pull something like this (In fact, they're trying hard to find people who *don't* fit the profiles ...which is a little hard because people who've traveled to where their training is are likely to be flagged as it is.)

There really is no 100 percent security against someone determined to mess up your day without caring what happens to themselves. But as things are, it's very darn hard to try and mount any kind of organized operation with what's in place now, and I think it shows in that they're down to trying their luck with solitary shoe-and-underwear bombers.

Complacency and predictability are things we want to avoid in our security.

[lithos]

What? Now they're deliberately trying to view us naked?

Bastards arrested me when I stripped off in the Qantas lounge.

[Rupert]

Ratlady, I sort of agree...... "Fact is, Americans tend to have really big-time modesty issues and some idea that the human body is sinful to look at."

Now, I don't find anything sinful about human bodies or viewing them in particular, but I have often found it painful. Americans by the scores could hide a briefcase nuke in a roll of fat and even a full body MRI could not detect it. On the good side, from some I see daily, a bomb going off in that fold of lard would only be a muffled bang....even a large bomb.
Can you imagine the counseling needed for a screener viewing such bodies day after day? Qualifies for torture in my book.......
Regards!

[Jasvox]

Terrorists (or would be) may not be as dumb as you think. If they care coming up with ways to get past security, because security is focused on the things that have been issues in the past, then who is to blame? (ok, I know the answer to that question). Fact is, we can't strip search every person who travels within or to and from the USA, nor can you subject every person to the 2-3 layers of 20 questions, a la flying in and out of Tel Aviv...we get 10000x more passengers in and out of our airports than Tel Aviv gets. When security catches up with what the terrorists are practicing currently, they will have moved on to other means. Sad but true.

Jason

[Ratmagiclady]

Frankly, what can be done is to make things more complicated for those of ill intent: the more complex they have to be about things, the more of a thousand things have to go right or wrong in specific ways for them to do what they're trying to do. Here's where a bit of unpredictability in security procedures is very good: it means would-be attackers must try to account for all the combinations of possibilities, not just counter what is actually present.

[Parallax]

Profiling is the answer...works for the Israelis, but we are much more "civilized" ....and often much more dead.

Profiling is only part of the solution. One of the major aspects is to try to make the risk outweigh the benefits to the individual terrorists as well as the planners. A few years back Israel announced a policy of destroying the family home of suicide bombers. We should pay very close attention to Israel's counter terrorism playbook. They are the experts and unlike us, they put national security ahead of public and world perception worries.

I watched something on The Military Channel this weekend on Navy surface warfare and part of it was about the Somali Pirates. It showed what happens after they are apprehended. Basically the same booking procedure as for civil criminals here, and that there was always a JAG officer there as well. The first thought I had about the whole procedure was "why are we apprehending pirates?" I can't believe that blowing their boat out from under them wouldn't be a better deterrent to future pirate wannabes than apprehending them, taking their picture and prints then giving them food, clothes and shelter.

[Blue]

Dogs can be trained to search for anything. Petey is trained to find bed bugs in luggage and hotel rooms including 5 Star joints.

[Ratmagiclady]

Frankly, what you quoted from Rupert there, Parallax, ...isn't even true. They may 'profile' in some ways, but there's a *lot* more hostility and death, there. Not that it all comes from draconian 'security measures,' but essentially escalating things isn't what I'd call 'part of the solution.'

[Ratmagiclady]

I'm actually very positive on the dogs idea. Mix the dogs up with machine-based chemical sniffers. Trying to beat *either or both* along with the other kinds of scanners and intel is a level of complexity most would-be bombers just can't be prepared to deal with. They may not care if they live or die, but they want to *succeed,* and there's vanity there.

[Parallax]

Frankly, what you quoted from Rupert there, Parallax, ...isn't even true. They may 'profile' in some ways, but there's a *lot* more hostility and death, there. Not that it all comes from draconian 'security measures,' but essentially escalating things isn't what I'd call 'part of the solution.'

" but there's a *lot* more hostility and death, there" So then we should wait until there is as much here before we get serious about security? What a great plan!
You're right, let's just all try to get along. I'm sure if we treat them nicer they'll leave us alone.

[Ratmagiclady]

You're right, let's just all try to get along. I'm sure if we treat them nicer they'll leave us alone.

If you don't want to think it through, then, well, that's your problem. Since when has declaring people's families fair game made anyone safer? Sure wouldn't work in any neighborhood *I* know.

There's playing hardball, and then there's throwing away all pretense of civilization.

[Parallax]

..............there's throwing away all pretense of civilization.

That is exactly what the other side has done.

[Ratmagiclady]

That is exactly what the other side has done.

Precisely. Civilization is the real target. They want to play warlord.

We should not surrender on this point. Even if we must take a few risks in the process.