[Phil1]

'- The second incident could easily have killed some or all of the sailors on board of the rammed ship. Not the same thing in my opinion.'

Someone above that saw the video says that the small vessel stopped dead ahead of the larger vessel. Dumb a$$ move. Take what physics deals you.

Big vessels have no brakes, some take a mile to stop and have a huge turning circle. I take it no one was killed and the publicity was gained. A deliberate stunt by assumed sober people.

We have druggies occasionally wander on the freeways at night naked trying to stop 70 MPH cars and such. It usually doesn't work very well.

Thanks for the info on what the small vessel was originally designed for. I think that was the high speed Atlantic crossing record boat so the damn thing can go 50-60 MPH and get out of a 7-10 knot bigger vessel's way no problemo.

This might have been a way to dump the thing at sea and cause pollution rather than pay to have it cut up and land filled. I certainly trust they have carbon credits for the fuel used, no live animals were hurt and they cleaned up the spilled hydrocarbon based fuels spread on the waters. I trust too the plastics and stuff were environmentally safe to dump at sea. That's equivelant to a lot of plastic market bags on the waters if it sunk.

[Ash]

I have problems following this discussion:

1. Whaling is illegal. That's a simple fact.
2. The Japanese justifiy there whale hunting as on "scientific" purpose. That's an very obvious ly, because there is no scientific benefit in hunting large numbers of whales in a small sea area. Science has progressed beyond simply hunting animals… Anyway, they sell the whale meat on the free market and make good money out of it. Not exactly what I would understand as being scientific.
3. it is very obvious, that nobody would ram a massive whaling vessel with a small fibre-Trimaran. That's suicide. And though conservation activists sure long for the public, they are not suicidal. The whaling vessel is the culprit.
4. if the activists block whaling vessels or try to protect the whales, they are basically trying to prevent an illegal activity. That's what I expect from good citizens!

Ben

Good points Ben.
The fundamental problem is one of breaking the law. The issue is nothing is being done about this lawless culling of whales. And it's the Japanese alone who seem to monopolise the hunt for them. There is a breach of trust and mutual respect here, and being in Australian waters the Japanese vessel could well be jeopardised for continuing to do illegal activity despite stern warnings.

I'm personally against the Japanese whaling operations, however what Watson and his Sea Shepards do borders on insanity. If you stand on the train tracks long enough you are eventually going to get flattened and thats just what happened here.

What to do? As a conservationist/greenie do you just try to save the whales by the usual snail-paced legal methods, or do you take action? If you take action, what action can be taken?

[Ash]

The actions of both sides has endangered the lives of both. I am not condoning whaling for a second. It is within everyones right to protest but not when there is no need to maliciously cause damage that could kill or injure someone (such as the laser incident). They play with fire, antagonising and inciting an incident and then one does occur they run off telling tales as if they were doing nothing to provoke it.

Just saying that both sides are as bad as each other in a messy and awful situation.

Correct, the Sea Shepherd crew are not innocent in the matter.
They attempt to cripple the Japanese vessels even to the point of sinking them.
Certainly the Japanese crew know this and seek to defend themselves.
Although threatening lives is terribly malicious, the conservationists have no doubt exhausted all their more peaceful efforts to ward off the whaling, and *no-one* comes to their aid in stopping the illegal practice.

[Ash]

I have watched this Sea Shepherd in action on TV, and personally, I think the entire crew are a bunch of dope smoking hippies using Whales as an excuse to collect large sums of cash from animal rights supporters to get out on the open sea and party.

Indeed much can be said, Rupert, about the type of people the groups attract. Medicine Sans Frontier is another that comes to mind - only a 'special' type of doctor is found to do such work...

Having said that, I am all for protecting whales, and think there should be strong International protection....something like surface to surface missiles would be my preference for the Japanese ships instead of a few stink bombs.

If you're gonna go, go all out, eh?
But seriously, Aussie pollies are mute about this issue as if they have to kiss backsides and diplomatically ignore that this is a problem we can solve with more definitive means. The Navy comes to mind - certainly works against people smuggling...

[Ash]

I'm personally against the Japanese whaling operations, however what Watson and his Sea Shepards do borders on insanity. If you stand on the train tracks long enough you are eventually going to get flattened and thats just what happened here.

Agreed. Put yourself in harm's way, be ready to suffer the consequences.

Missing the point though. They were prepared for the consequences - and suffered them here. But as far as the Sea Shepherd crew's concerned, this incident served as a good publicity stunt for conservationism, and now the world is watching this illegal activity occur and hopefully moved to put more pressure on politicians and come between the backsides they're kissing.

So perhaps now there will be some more systematic action to stop the whaling.

[Ash]

'- The second incident could easily have killed some or all of the sailors on board of the rammed ship. Not the same thing in my opinion.'

Someone above that saw the video says that the small vessel stopped dead ahead of the larger vessel. Dumb a$$ move. Take what physics deals you.

Big vessels have no brakes, some take a mile to stop and have a huge turning circle. I take it no one was killed and the publicity was gained. A deliberate stunt by assumed sober people.

These guys, crazy as they are, weren't *that* smashed to get in a multimillion dollar vessel and risk losing it (and their own lives) for nothing. This incident at least means they had it damaged (and they got injured) for their cause. Yes, they knew they'd get in its way but there's more to it than that.

The Japanese crew are simply relentless. They don't care about the consequences of their own actions. The Sea Shepherd crew are trying everything they can to influence them to little avail. They feel compelled to go to more drastic measures. So they get hit. But then when the 'defensive' force the Japanese used against the Sea Shepherd *after* it was dismembered and the crew scattered around the vessel is clearly seen, the message is further reinforced:

We, the Japanese, will fight for our right to whale, even if you consider it illegal (we obviously don't and don't care if you do), and will use whatever force we like to ensure we're not obstructed in our mission.

Poor justification IMO for their actions and intentions.

[Parallax]

Missing the point though. They were prepared for the consequences - and suffered them here. But as far as the Sea Shepherd crew's concerned, this incident served as a good publicity stunt for conservationism, and now the world is watching this illegal activity occur and hopefully moved to put more pressure on politicians and come between the backsides they're kissing.

So perhaps now there will be some more systematic action to stop the whaling.

You can't help but have some degree of admiration for anybody who puts it on the line like that for what they believe in. It would be in their best interest to ensure that any action they take is lawful but still this is one time I'm on the environmentalist's side. This isn't some obscure species of toad unknown outside the scientific community that they are trying to protect. They are magnificent animals that need to be preserved.

[Ash]

so its okay for conservationists to ram a whaling ship but they cry foul when they are rammed in return.

huh?

They're only crying foul to get the message across - the Japanese whalers are conducting illegal activity, and we want something more done about it.

[Ash]

You can't help but have some degree of admiration for anybody who puts it on the line like that for what they believe in. It would be in their best interest to ensure that any action they take is lawful but still this is one time I'm on the environmentalist's side. This isn't some obscure species of toad unknown outside the scientific community that they are trying to protect. They are magnificent animals that need to be preserved.

Right Jim. We can see it this way because of our own value system.
The Japanese don't value the whales (I wonder if they would if they drove them to extinction) and don't care that we do. No moral conscience.

[Ratmagiclady]

Right Jim. We can see it this way because of our own value system.
The Japanese don't value the whales (I wonder if they would if they drove them to extinction) and don't care that we do. No moral conscience.

Frankly, to a certain degree of their point of view, in spite of the crass lies about what they're doing: they're an island nation who are, on some political level, trying to reserve the 'right' to fish or hunt where they darn well please. This is part of how it seems to play to *them,* even if in practice it's just commercial and irresponsible.

Some of what I've heard on their side is little different from New England. (With irony, of course, it was Japanese driftnet boats that made the locals feel that way, but, hey.)

[Rupert]

Well, I certainly do appreciate your efforts on behalf of Handsome Squirrels! A little tip from someone that is an expert......"Squirrel-proof" is an oxymoron, don't waste your time or effort unless it is for the entertainment factor.......watching them destroy "Squirrel-proof" feeders is a ton of fun!
Regards!

[Ratmagiclady]

Well, I certainly do appreciate your efforts on behalf of Handsome Squirrels! A little tip from someone that is an expert......"Squirrel-proof" is an oxymoron, don't waste your time or effort unless it is for the entertainment factor.......watching them destroy "Squirrel-proof" feeders is a ton of fun!
Regards!

If any of my foozle-tailed neighbors are getting into *my* bird-feeder, they deserve it. The simple expedient of a large overhang means the birdies get theirs, and squirrels get what falls. (don't tell neighbors, but I feed them, too, anyway. ) I love em. As long as they don't get in the walls, or anything, which doesn't seem to be anywhere near as tempting for them down here as in the Northeast, anyway.

[Rupert]

I'll gladly take that Ratlady and give you three gold stars...anyone that will feed my Squirrels is not all bad, no matter what anyone may think or say. Someday we will be glad of our Squirrel kindness....they are going to rule the world....conquering one nut at a time. We have no shortage here for them, do we?
Regards!

[Ratmagiclady]

I'll gladly take that Ratlady and give you three gold stars...anyone that will feed my Squirrels is not all bad, no matter what anyone may think or say. Someday we will be glad of our Squirrel kindness....they are going to rule the world....conquering one nut at a time. We have no shortage here for them, do we?
Regards!

Hey, you're the only one in your world saying I was *any* 'bad' in the first place. That's all up to you.

[Blue]

Does Australia not have a "coast guard?" While the turkeys in the Sea Sheppard a brick shy of a load, the Aussie cost guard should have put a round from a 5" across the Japanese poacher's bow with instructions of "prepare to be boarded."

However, several Nation's are having problems with their waters being violated for fishing and oil drilling. The Japanese and the Chinese fishermen are very flagrant in violating waters and they need to be treated as pirates and poachers.