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01-19-2010, 04:07 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
All the rest of what you say I'm saying... To justify verbal abuse... Is not what I said.
I know you think you understand what you believe I said, but I believe you fail to realize that what you understood me to say in fact bears no relation to what I actually meant.

01-19-2010, 04:25 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
RML,

You over-simplified people owning their own homes and rental property..

Actually, where I think this gets 'oversimplified' is when someone like Parallax or the other resident cons try to 'simplify' poverty, (not to mention what they imagine to be my 'lifestyle' but refuse to define,) and when someone who actually knows *how this works* speak up, they start talking about sex and excrement and whatever noise might distract from the fact that what they rationalize as some kind of 'incentive' to be like them while they kick everyone else in sight...


Is not. Such. 'Incentive.' It's just kicking people.

You 'conservatives' are *defending* Lies. About abstractions... Which hurt... Real people... That you mock... By saying, 'Get a job, cripple, you deserved it!' And then say, 'Well, even if demanding you justify yourself all day shows I'm full of shit, I'm the real victim here, cause you're 'oversimplifying' my position. And you are associated with excrement somehow.'
01-19-2010, 04:27 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I know you think you understand what you believe I said, but I believe you fail to realize that what you understood me to say in fact bears no relation to what I actually meant.
You show no sign any of what I said even computes. When I refute what you say, you just attack by some other petty angle. And then in a couple days you'll act like I never made any case in the first place.


Speaking of how people don't value your efforts.

This is why we look like eedjits to Canadians, sport. You wanted to see blood and heartbreak, there it was. And you all just look the other way and find some way to turn it backwards.

(Remember when I told you you should be glad I am not one who could be bludgeoned nto Manichaeanism, Rupert? I say this cause it's been tried. Hard.)
01-19-2010, 04:37 PM   #124
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NACL

I'll buy #1,2 and 3. I can't answer the huge disparity on the same drugs north and south of the Canadian border. We are getting screwed

#4, I am more of a flat tax guy. All fer one, one fer all, no deductions. A minimum poverty cut off. The one Forbes proposed way back was 17% on all income, no exceptions and a min income cut off of $30K. I'm not looking this up but going from memory. The min poverty level and perhaps the % would have to be adjusted upwards for current conditions/inflation of course. I know, all the tax accountants would really be pi$$ed, oh well. No SS/SSI payouts for those uber rich either, ditto illegals.

01-19-2010, 04:40 PM   #125
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QuoteQuote:
You 'conservatives' are *defending* Lies. About abstractions... Which hurt... Real people... That you mock... By saying, 'Get a job, cripple, you deserved it!' And then say, 'Well, even if demanding you justify yourself all day shows I'm full of shit, I'm the real victim here, cause you're 'oversimplifying' my position. And you are associated with excrement somehow.'
I never stated anything about your situation nor have I ever, simplified or otherwise except maybe for a tea comment a long long time ago.
01-19-2010, 04:46 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Phil1 Quote
NACL
No SS/SSI payouts for those uber rich either, ditto illegals.

I'm gonna bypass 'illegals' for the moment, since my own life as a natuaral-born-american citizen is being used as a diversion there: (Point of interest: if an 'illegal' has a straight marriage with a citizen, bing, they're American. If it's not a straight marriage, they can be deported to Iran or elsewhere ...For being queer, officially... where they kill you for being queer. Just FYI.)

As for Social security to the 'uber-rich,' well, the 'uber-rich' are few in numbers. It may be 'staying alive' to *me,* but to them, it's a token that says they are getting what they paid into, and that's important to them.

The point of Social Security is that it's *for everyone.* It's *not* charity for the poor, it's.. *sharing our wealth.* However rich you are, you *do* deserve it.

And you should remember that everyone does. Maybe it's pocket change to you, it could to others be six people keeping a roof on this month.

If you wanna get political about it, go ahead and give to the nation what you see fit.

(But, oh, by the way, rich people don't actually qualify for SSI. If blood relations who've threatened to *kill* you have too much money, you don't qualify for SSI. Not till you hit retirement age, actually. )

Point of interest: I almost ha to have a sham of straight marriage to stay in college so I could escape ... Paying for dorms I couldn't afford to live in and be findable by people who wanted to do bad things to me...
*thud of palm against head.* What an *appealing*' lifestyle. ' It must be *lots* of fun. Where do I sign up?

It must have been lots of fun, cause to this day, people are assuming I'm having way too much 'illicit fun' twenty years later with my major rheumatoid arthritis and endocrine breakdowns to snuggle with anyone and not somehow massively screw up Christian conservatives' otherwise *brilliant* macroeconomics.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 01-19-2010 at 05:06 PM.
01-19-2010, 04:47 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Thanks for the entertainment gokenin, your little smilies are amusing. Now to answer some of your points
1)Yes I am for limiting malpractice payouts. In fact I'll do you one better, I'd like to see us adopt the British system on all torte litigation. It would cut waaayyyyy down on ALL litgation, not just the medical type
2) First of all I was not talking about drugs that are available in Canada etc but not US. I was talking about the same drug available in both countries. For instance a normal perscription of Lipator(sp?) in the US costs about $125-150 per month. Same perscription, same dosage exact same brand name drug costs a Canadian about $35. Why is that? And don't try to tell me that the manufacturing processses are different, drug gets made in the same plant. Sold in Canada $35 sold in US $125-150.
3) I don't know the reason for the cost differential, maybe its because the US lets big Pharma get away with it and Canada doesn't? It's possible that Canada subdizes the cost of the drug, I don't know. The US government subdizes the cost of gasolene thru special tax breaks, maybe if they subdized gasolene a little bit less and gave that subsidy towards cheaper drugs...
4) I make no secret that I'm in favor of a steeper income tax graduation. If you will check the earlier posts I mentioned the Oliver Wendell Holmes quote about taxation and civilization. And yes, it's true that many European countries have much higher tax rates than we do. Terrible terrible terrible, those poor people, except that they live longer, their babies die less often, less mental illness, they have more vacation time and minimum wage is higher. And if you want to talk about disposable income, I'll have to say to you that despite all my OT, much of my disposable income goes to paying for the medications common to most American males 60 yrs old. I've got precious little of that.

NaCl(a teabagger I'm not)H2O
See this is where if you actually stop and listen to people you might actually come to realize that people tend to have more in common than we have that seperates us. I am a Republican and I agree with you on the first point but will either party allow tort reform No because they are made up of lawyers and special intrest groups will not allow it. The second and third points I cant answer all I can tell you something from my personal experience at work. I work in the college textbook field and you can get an international edition of a book that is printed for sale in asia that costs roughly 30% of what it costs in "western" nations ie US,Canada and Europe . the book will be black and white only no fancy color graphs or pictures, it will be softcover as opposed to a hardcover and the actual paper will be rough paper not the high gloss paper of most textbooks. The reason for this discrepancy is that the people in the "west" have more money so we can charge them more because they have more disposable income so lets charge more for them. I am not saying this is what the drug companies are doing but it may be what they are thinking. I dont know the answer to income taxes all i know is they take more than i get back and that the "wealthy" have more taxe shelters that they can use to get out paying their fair share than I do. ok enough of my soapbox and remember you actually agreed with one of those evil Republicans today

01-19-2010, 04:48 PM   #128
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sorry double post
01-19-2010, 05:03 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by gokenin Quote
See this is where if you actually stop and listen to people you might actually come to realize that people tend to have more in common than we have that seperates us. I am a Republican and I agree with you on the first point but will either party allow tort reform No because they are made up of lawyers and special intrest groups will not allow it. The second and third points I cant answer all I can tell you something from my personal experience at work. I work in the college textbook field and you can get an international edition of a book that is printed for sale in asia that costs roughly 30% of what it costs in "western" nations ie US,Canada and Europe . the book will be black and white only no fancy color graphs or pictures, it will be softcover as opposed to a hardcover and the actual paper will be rough paper not the high gloss paper of most textbooks. The reason for this discrepancy is that the people in the "west" have more money so we can charge them more because they have more disposable income so lets charge more for them. I am not saying this is what the drug companies are doing but it may be what they are thinking. I dont know the answer to income taxes all i know is they take more than i get back and that the "wealthy" have more taxe shelters that they can use to get out paying their fair share than I do. ok enough of my soapbox and remember you actually agreed with one of those evil Republicans today
I'm not in much disagreement with this except for "I dont know the answer to income taxes all i know is they take more than i get back" I'm assuming you are talking returned tax money after filing? There are few of us, if any, that could receive the benefits we are provided by government with what we send in, no matter how much or what percentage it may be. There is little doubt much of it is wasted but no doubt that we could not provide ourselves with the same benefits for our single contribution.
Regards!
01-19-2010, 05:10 PM   #130
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Hi, Rupert. Read, much?
01-19-2010, 05:11 PM   #131
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actually I was talking about the services and benefits that the state offers but I am not entitled to because I make more that I should to get the benefits but not enough to be able to truelly enjoy life I am smack in that "working poor" class that is in the middle of no man's land as far as benefits go
01-19-2010, 05:41 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by gokenin Quote
actually I was talking about the services and benefits that the state offers but I am not entitled to because I make more that I should to get the benefits but not enough to be able to truelly enjoy life I am smack in that "working poor" class that is in the middle of no man's land as far as benefits go
That goes to them wanting to see blood before they give as a 'handout' (even if it's not) what would, less-adversarially-given, be a better investment.

Because of this idea of 'You really have to hurt before you get the ---securty in society you paid for.....' Inefficiencies happen. People are *wasted* while these SOBs will be like, 'You aren't hurting enough yet, starve it out, and then do something brilliant... So, Get worse! This is 'incentive!' But not here."
01-19-2010, 05:53 PM   #133
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Back to the election

Wall Street watched closely. The Dow Jones industrial average rose 116 points, and analysts attributed the increase to hopes the election would make it harder for Obama to make his changes to health care. That eased investor concerns that profits at companies such as insurers and drug makers would suffer.
Drug stocks up, hospital stocks were down.
Close Mass. race threatens national Dems - Capitol Hill- msnbc.com
Sad that hospitals are for profit in the first place....
But healthcare shares rallied the most in the regular session on hopes that policy gridlock in Washington would slow the healthcare overhaul, removing a threat to the profits of insurers and drug companies.

The S&P Healthcare Index climbed 2 percent, with drug company Eli Lilly , up 4.4 percent at $37.41, among the standouts. Health insurers' shares also rallied briskly, with Humana Inc , up 7.1 percent at $51.94.

Massachusetts voters were deciding a tight race on Tuesday to replace the late Edward Kennedy, a Democrat. The loss of one seat in the U.S. Senate could hurt the Democrats' ability to proceed to a vote on the planned healthcare overhaul that seemed to be in the final stages of the legislative process.

"A Republican win would be a positive for the markets since it would mean increased potential for gridlock in Washington," said Carmine Grigoli, chief U.S. strategist at Mizuho Securities USA in New York. "This is probably especially true now, given the very large social agenda of the Obama administration."

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=OBR&date...19&id=10953949
Does any of that sound like a win for you and me? I don't think so.
01-19-2010, 08:24 PM   #134
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I heard something a few minutes back and went to check it out......it was the Fat lady singing in Massachesetts, and it was a heck of a racket she was making. You can call it what you want, there is plenty of blame for the Democratic loss of what should have been a cake walk, but to my mind this is a pure Obama loss. He has failed to deliver to the majorityof Americans that elected him and now it is time for payback. If he had stuck to his promises and not tried to play footsies with the Republicans, his base would have elected Coakley...even though she stinks to high heaven. Open your eyes Mr Obama, the worst is yet to come if you can't get your act together.
Regards!
01-19-2010, 08:29 PM   #135
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Let the spinning, squalling and bawling begin!
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