The new Gitmo

Phil1 · 01-26-2010, 12:33 PM

Pretty funny actually, but if you live here you will cry:

SAN FRANCISCO (AFP) – Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger suggested California could ease its crowded prison system by sending thousands of undocumented inmates to specially built jails in Mexico.

Speaking to reporters at the Sacramento Press Club, Schwarzenegger said California could ease its strained finances by a billion dollars if 20,000 illegal immigrants currently held in the state were housed across the border.

"I think that we can do so much better in the prison system alone if we can go and take, inmates for instance, the 20,000 inmates that are illegal immigrants that are here and get them to Mexico," Schwarzenegger said.

"Think about it -- if California gives Mexico the money. Not 'Hey, you take care of them, these are your citizens'. No. Not at all.

"We pay them to build the prison down in Mexico. And then we have those undocumented immigrants down there in prison. It would half the costs to build the prison and run the prison. We could save a billion dollars right there that could go into higher education."

Schwarzenegger's remarks come as California prepares for the latest in a long line of state budget crises.

Schwarzenegger declared a fiscal emergency earlier this month, warning severe cuts were necessary to stem a 19.9-billion-dollar deficit.

California has some of the most overcrowded prisons in the United States, with an estimated 170,000 inmates housed in facilities designed for 100,000 people, according to 2007 figures.

Schwarzenegger said he believed the financial burden of California's prisons could be eased if the private sector moved into the industry.

"I think that there is no reason why we should have just state employees and public prisons," Schwarzenegger said. "Why shouldn't we have private prisons and private prisons competing with public prisons?

"I don't want to go and get rid of public prisons, not at all. It's not an attack on their labor union even though they may take it as such.

>>>That's $1,000,000,000/20,000 = $500,000 each. How about giving them each $100, take DNA samples and cut them loose on Mexico? If they are caught again here they get to go on welfare and vote. Just trying to help out. The state employee unions own the capitol if you haven't heard.

lesmore49 · 01-26-2010, 12:56 PM

I don't know what the solution is to building prisons and jails...or gaols as we say in Canada and they say in Britain.

Back in the early 1800's in Britain, the Brits used to anchor old Royal Navy ships which were used as floating prisons, just outside of harbours, as land based, prisons, workhouses, poor houses were over loaded.

In fact convicted criminals in Britain, were sentenced to transportation to Australia...then a far off, strange and forbidding land.

Through the centuries I don't think any country has had a perfect solution to prison overcrowding.

So what do you do ? At least Arnold is looking at different solutions and I'm not saying this one described on the article is the way to go.

I don't think there is any point rattling on about assumed reasons why prisons are over crowded...the usual stuff about political prisoners, those consigned to a life of containment because of poverty and social ills.

All that does is get into an emotive tug of war that goes nowhere, except eventually in the bin, along with all those other threads that dissolve into unwarranted, personal attacks.

So let's not go down the road, fraught with trouble.

This issue is simply.... how do you accommodate all the prisoners that are imprisoned ?

Gooshin · 01-26-2010, 12:59 PM

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yndfqN1VKhY[/yt]

graphicgr8s · 01-26-2010, 01:19 PM

They could always call Sheriff Joe for advice. He seems to have it down to a science

Maricopa County Sheriff's Office

Phil1 · 01-26-2010, 01:37 PM

Maybe The Governator should use the Obama gambit and ship them all to New York for retrial and release. No need for the Calif. state to finance new Baja Crime Extension Universities south of the border. You can only guess how well those will be run with Calif taxpayers' cash. WTF it's only taxpayers money anyway.

BPT · 01-26-2010, 01:42 PM

The idea of shipping off the illegal aliens from mexico back to mexico to me sounds like a winning plan. As far as I know Canada and the US have a treaty that allows a Canadian arrested in the US to serve his time in Canada and vice-versa. Let the country of origin take care of them.

The other thing they could do is lighten the sentences on drug related crimes, that would probably lighten the load considerably

Phil1 · 01-26-2010, 03:07 PM

'The other thing they could do is lighten the sentences on drug related crimes, that would probably lighten the load considerably'

Some of these guys are really bad a$$ people. It's a mistake to let them go anywhere. Pot is a traffic ticket here and only if you get pi$$y with the police. LA is just opening legal 'herb' stores. If they are in the slammer you can be pretty sure it's for serious stuff.

If Calif does it, Calif will have to build the prisons down there and run them. It's a loose-loose deal but cheaper.

lesmore49 · 01-26-2010, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Phil1

'The other thing they could do is lighten the sentences on drug related crimes, that would probably lighten the load considerably'

Some of these guys are really bad a$$ people. It's a mistake to let them go anywhere. Pot is a traffic ticket here and only if you get pi$$y with the police. LA is just opening legal 'herb' stores. If they are in the slammer you can be pretty sure it's for serious stuff.

If Calif does it, Calif will have to build the prisons down there and run them. It's a loose-loose deal but cheaper.

I dunno...another jurisdiction running a prison in another country ? I see some sovereignty issues developing if that's the case.

On one hand it sounds good on the surface, cheaper (in reality...anything involved with building new infrastructure and new bureaucracy...never ends up cheaper after all is said and done), ship those who are citizens of the country back to serve time in their native land, California divesting itself of a problem, etc.

So given that California is writing out IOU's for anything and everything, how are they going to finance this ambitious undertaking ?

In the end, this idea appears to be fraught with problems and expense that it would be wise to go back to the drawing board, IMHO.

MRRiley · 01-27-2010, 10:59 AM

The mexican government would just let them all out and they'd be right back in California

Wheatfield · 01-30-2010, 09:28 AM

If you send an illegal immigrant home, is he still a criminal?

Parallax · 01-30-2010, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

If you send an illegal immigrant home, is he still a criminal?

If illegally entering the country was the only crime, then I would say no. Mexico does not have a law prohibiting it's citizens from entering the U.S., so no crime was committed in Mexico. I assume the point here is that if illegal entry was the only crime that was committed and we send the person to the Mexican contract facility they may have no obligation (or even legal standing) to keep the individual locked up.

Phil1 · 01-30-2010, 10:14 AM

'If Calif does it, Calif will have to build the prisons down there and run them. It's a loose-loose deal but cheaper.'

'I dunno...another jurisdiction running a prison in another country ? I see some sovereignty issues developing if that's the case.'

Well then how about shipping them to the new US non-citizen criminal depository New York? Bloomberg seems to like the idea. No wait I guess he thought about it for 2 NY seconds and now says no thanks. I guess flip-flops work well back there.

Well Plan B would be to send them all to Obama in Washington DC. Immigration is a federal issue after all. Let the feds deal with them.

Catch and release only works for fish.

Just tryin to help the Governator out here.

graphicgr8s · 01-30-2010, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Parallax

If illegally entering the country was the only crime, then I would say no. Mexico does not have a law prohibiting it's citizens from entering the U.S., so no crime was committed in Mexico. I assume the point here is that if illegal entry was the only crime that was committed and we send the person to the Mexican contract facility they may have no obligation (or even legal standing) to keep the individual locked up.

You like that canned mexican food don't you?

Parallax · 01-30-2010, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by graphicgr8s

You like that canned mexican food don't you?

Actually, I do like Mexican food.
That picture is an example of Tex-Mex.

Rupert · 01-30-2010, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

Actually, I do like Mexican food.
That picture is an example of Tex-Mex.

Not nitpicking at you...again...but anyone that knows good Tex-Mex knows that the authentic stuff has jalapenos in there....that can is a knock off made in China if I ever saw one.
Regards!

01-26-2010, 12:33 PM	#1
Phil1 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,292	The new Gitmo Pretty funny actually, but if you live here you will cry: SAN FRANCISCO (AFP) – Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger suggested California could ease its crowded prison system by sending thousands of undocumented inmates to specially built jails in Mexico. Speaking to reporters at the Sacramento Press Club, Schwarzenegger said California could ease its strained finances by a billion dollars if 20,000 illegal immigrants currently held in the state were housed across the border. "I think that we can do so much better in the prison system alone if we can go and take, inmates for instance, the 20,000 inmates that are illegal immigrants that are here and get them to Mexico," Schwarzenegger said. "Think about it -- if California gives Mexico the money. Not 'Hey, you take care of them, these are your citizens'. No. Not at all. "We pay them to build the prison down in Mexico. And then we have those undocumented immigrants down there in prison. It would half the costs to build the prison and run the prison. We could save a billion dollars right there that could go into higher education." Schwarzenegger's remarks come as California prepares for the latest in a long line of state budget crises. Schwarzenegger declared a fiscal emergency earlier this month, warning severe cuts were necessary to stem a 19.9-billion-dollar deficit. California has some of the most overcrowded prisons in the United States, with an estimated 170,000 inmates housed in facilities designed for 100,000 people, according to 2007 figures. Schwarzenegger said he believed the financial burden of California's prisons could be eased if the private sector moved into the industry. "I think that there is no reason why we should have just state employees and public prisons," Schwarzenegger said. "Why shouldn't we have private prisons and private prisons competing with public prisons? "I don't want to go and get rid of public prisons, not at all. It's not an attack on their labor union even though they may take it as such. >>>That's $1,000,000,000/20,000 = $500,000 each. How about giving them each $100, take DNA samples and cut them loose on Mexico? If they are caught again here they get to go on welfare and vote. Just trying to help out. The state employee unions own the capitol if you haven't heard.

01-26-2010, 12:56 PM	#2
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,342	I don't know what the solution is to building prisons and jails...or gaols as we say in Canada and they say in Britain. Back in the early 1800's in Britain, the Brits used to anchor old Royal Navy ships which were used as floating prisons, just outside of harbours, as land based, prisons, workhouses, poor houses were over loaded. In fact convicted criminals in Britain, were sentenced to transportation to Australia...then a far off, strange and forbidding land. Through the centuries I don't think any country has had a perfect solution to prison overcrowding. So what do you do ? At least Arnold is looking at different solutions and I'm not saying this one described on the article is the way to go. I don't think there is any point rattling on about assumed reasons why prisons are over crowded...the usual stuff about political prisoners, those consigned to a life of containment because of poverty and social ills. All that does is get into an emotive tug of war that goes nowhere, except eventually in the bin, along with all those other threads that dissolve into unwarranted, personal attacks. So let's not go down the road, fraught with trouble. This issue is simply.... how do you accommodate all the prisoners that are imprisoned ?

01-26-2010, 12:59 PM	#3
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yndfqN1VKhY[/yt]

01-26-2010, 01:19 PM	#4
graphicgr8s Guest	They could always call Sheriff Joe for advice. He seems to have it down to a science Maricopa County Sheriff's Office

01-26-2010, 01:37 PM	#5
Phil1 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,292 Original Poster	Maybe The Governator should use the Obama gambit and ship them all to New York for retrial and release. No need for the Calif. state to finance new Baja Crime Extension Universities south of the border. You can only guess how well those will be run with Calif taxpayers' cash. WTF it's only taxpayers money anyway.

01-26-2010, 01:42 PM	#6
BPT Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Fruitvale, British Columbia Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 310	The idea of shipping off the illegal aliens from mexico back to mexico to me sounds like a winning plan. As far as I know Canada and the US have a treaty that allows a Canadian arrested in the US to serve his time in Canada and vice-versa. Let the country of origin take care of them. The other thing they could do is lighten the sentences on drug related crimes, that would probably lighten the load considerably

01-26-2010, 03:07 PM	#7
Phil1 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,292 Original Poster	'The other thing they could do is lighten the sentences on drug related crimes, that would probably lighten the load considerably' Some of these guys are really bad a$$ people. It's a mistake to let them go anywhere. Pot is a traffic ticket here and only if you get pi$$y with the police. LA is just opening legal 'herb' stores. If they are in the slammer you can be pretty sure it's for serious stuff. If Calif does it, Calif will have to build the prisons down there and run them. It's a loose-loose deal but cheaper.

01-26-2010, 03:35 PM	#8
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,342	Originally posted by Phil1 'The other thing they could do is lighten the sentences on drug related crimes, that would probably lighten the load considerably' Some of these guys are really bad a$$ people. It's a mistake to let them go anywhere. Pot is a traffic ticket here and only if you get pi$$y with the police. LA is just opening legal 'herb' stores. If they are in the slammer you can be pretty sure it's for serious stuff. If Calif does it, Calif will have to build the prisons down there and run them. It's a loose-loose deal but cheaper. I dunno...another jurisdiction running a prison in another country ? I see some sovereignty issues developing if that's the case. On one hand it sounds good on the surface, cheaper (in reality...anything involved with building new infrastructure and new bureaucracy...never ends up cheaper after all is said and done), ship those who are citizens of the country back to serve time in their native land, California divesting itself of a problem, etc. So given that California is writing out IOU's for anything and everything, how are they going to finance this ambitious undertaking ? In the end, this idea appears to be fraught with problems and expense that it would be wise to go back to the drawing board, IMHO.

01-27-2010, 10:59 AM	#9
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	The mexican government would just let them all out and they'd be right back in California

01-30-2010, 09:28 AM	#10
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	If you send an illegal immigrant home, is he still a criminal?

01-30-2010, 09:37 AM	#11
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Wheatfield If you send an illegal immigrant home, is he still a criminal? If illegally entering the country was the only crime, then I would say no. Mexico does not have a law prohibiting it's citizens from entering the U.S., so no crime was committed in Mexico. I assume the point here is that if illegal entry was the only crime that was committed and we send the person to the Mexican contract facility they may have no obligation (or even legal standing) to keep the individual locked up.

01-30-2010, 10:14 AM	#12
Phil1 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 1,292 Original Poster	'If Calif does it, Calif will have to build the prisons down there and run them. It's a loose-loose deal but cheaper.' 'I dunno...another jurisdiction running a prison in another country ? I see some sovereignty issues developing if that's the case.' Well then how about shipping them to the new US non-citizen criminal depository New York? Bloomberg seems to like the idea. No wait I guess he thought about it for 2 NY seconds and now says no thanks. I guess flip-flops work well back there. Well Plan B would be to send them all to Obama in Washington DC. Immigration is a federal issue after all. Let the feds deal with them. Catch and release only works for fish. Just tryin to help the Governator out here.

01-30-2010, 11:53 AM	#13
graphicgr8s Guest	Originally posted by Parallax If illegally entering the country was the only crime, then I would say no. Mexico does not have a law prohibiting it's citizens from entering the U.S., so no crime was committed in Mexico. I assume the point here is that if illegal entry was the only crime that was committed and we send the person to the Mexican contract facility they may have no obligation (or even legal standing) to keep the individual locked up. You like that canned mexican food don't you?

01-30-2010, 11:56 AM	#14
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by graphicgr8s You like that canned mexican food don't you? Actually, I do like Mexican food. That picture is an example of Tex-Mex.

01-30-2010, 01:59 PM	#15
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Originally posted by Parallax Actually, I do like Mexican food. That picture is an example of Tex-Mex. Not nitpicking at you...again...but anyone that knows good Tex-Mex knows that the authentic stuff has jalapenos in there....that can is a knock off made in China if I ever saw one. Regards!