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01-31-2010, 06:16 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Quite right Mike, well said. It's about time people started realising that America is the root of quite a bit that is evil in the world today.

I agree with Dan regarding American nutters though, America is in a class of its own in that area.
I've never held the US blameless. Sure we have done things wrong, but we are not alone in that. We are amateurs in meddling compared to some countries, such as England, Portugal, Spain and France during the 14-19th centuries during the "colonial" period. France and Japan made the mess we unsuccessfully tried to clean up in Vietnam, Russia annexed 90% or Europe before finally imploding... We had the Soviet Union's help in screwing up Korea... Need I go on?

As for nutters... Lets see....

Osama Bin Laden, Mohammad Atta, most of the 9/11 hijackers... Saudis
Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Omar Rajab Amin... Kuwaitis
Saddam Hussein, Chemical Ali, Tariq Aziz... Iraqis

Certainly I could go on and on and on. This is one area where America is completely outclassed. We don't grow nutters anywhere near as nutters as any of these guys...

However, I never did say America didn't have "nutters". Sure we have nutters but so do other countries. For instance, if you check, you will find that the rate of assaults per capita in the US and Australia are virtually identical (US - .75 per 100 & Aus - .70 per 100).

I just take exception with it having anything to do with our 2nd Amendment. I've owned firearms virtually all of my life and I've never once fired one in anger or in protection of myself or my family, however, as a law abiding citizen the capability to do so is guaranteed to me.

Mike


Last edited by MRRiley; 01-31-2010 at 06:31 PM.
01-31-2010, 06:40 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
I agree with Dan regarding American nutters though, America is in a class of its own in that area.
Hey, what remains of my wits will not go down without a fight. Their comrades before them have sold themselves dearly.
01-31-2010, 06:43 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
I've never held the US blameless. Sure we have done things wrong, but we are not alone in that. We are amateurs in meddling compared to some countries, such as England, Portugal, Spain and France during the 14-19th centuries during the "colonial" period. France and Japan made the mess we unsuccessfully tried to clean up in Vietnam, Russia annexed 90% or Europe before finally imploding... Need I go on?

As for nutters... Lets see....

Osama Bin Laden, Mohammad Atta, most of the 9/11 hijackers... Saudis
Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Omar Rajab Amin... Kuwaitis
Saddam Hussein, Chemical Ali, Tariq Aziz... Iraqis

Certainly I could go on and on and on. This is one area where America is completely outclassed. We don't grow nutters anywhere near as nutters as any of these guys...

However, I never did say America didn't have "nutters". Sure we have nutters but so do other countries. For instance, if you check, you will find that the rate of assaults per capita in the US and Australia are virtually identical (US - .75 per 100 & Aus - .70 per 100).

I just take exception with it having anything to do with our 2nd Amendment. I've owned firearms virtually all of my life and I've never once fired one in anger or in protection of myself or my family, however, as a law abiding citizen the capability to do so is guaranteed to me.

Mike
Save
yourself the aggravation, Mike. Gary
has made it pretty clear through numerous posts that he is anti-America. Feeling as he does about the U.S. I can't help but wonder just what it is he is doing here.
01-31-2010, 06:47 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
I've never held the US blameless. Sure we have done things wrong, but we are not alone in that. We are amateurs in meddling compared to some countries, such as England, Portugal, Spain and France during the 14-19th centuries during the "colonial" period. France and Japan made the mess we unsuccessfully tried to clean up in Vietnam, Russia annexed 90% or Europe before finally imploding... We had the Soviet Union's help in screwing up Korea... Need I go on?

As for nutters... Lets see....

Osama Bin Laden, Mohammad Atta, most of the 9/11 hijackers... Saudis
Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Omar Rajab Amin... Kuwaitis
Saddam Hussein, Chemical Ali, Tariq Aziz... Iraqis

Certainly I could go on and on and on. This is one area where America is completely outclassed. We don't grow nutters anywhere near as nutters as any of these guys...

However, I never did say America didn't have "nutters". Sure we have nutters but so do other countries. For instance, if you check, you will find that the rate of assaults per capita in the US and Australia are virtually identical (US - .75 per 100 & Aus - .70 per 100).

I just take exception with it having anything to do with our 2nd Amendment. I've owned firearms virtually all of my life and I've never once fired one in anger or in protection of myself or my family, however, as a law abiding citizen the capability to do so is guaranteed to me.

Mike
Mike it's possible that we don't need to grow the nutters. We just get them from England, etc.

01-31-2010, 06:52 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Quite right Mike, well said. It's about time people started realising that America is the root of quite a bit that is evil in the world today.

I agree with Dan regarding American nutters though, America is in a class of its own in that area.
Its truly sad that you believe this.
01-31-2010, 06:56 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Save
yourself the aggravation, Mike. Gary
has made it pretty clear through numerous posts that he is anti-America. Feeling as he does about the U.S. I can't help but wonder just what it is he is doing here.
I can take criticism of this country from fellow citizens and from resident or naturalized aliens. They've earned the right in one way or other... but getting ignorant "opinions" from people (like Dan evidently) who base their entire knowledge of the US from Zane Grey novels, Rambo movies and Miami Vice or even a visit to Disneyland, just galls me. I've never once criticized Australia, or Canada, or the UK as regard to how they run their own affairs. What they do in their countries is their business and it's not my call to criticise them so I don't.

Mike

Last edited by MRRiley; 01-31-2010 at 07:02 PM. Reason: damned typos
01-31-2010, 07:06 PM   #37
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Well, I tend to think that after watching how Bush made us look to the world, ...trying his darndest to be a stereotype, himself, really.... It's not hard to see some of those perceptions come from our own media.

I think we may be missing the distinction between 'nutter' (aka 'real looney') and 'F'n Psycho.' The latter of which can take many forms without necessarily being ...colorful. These sets may overlap on occasion, but I do think the former was what was meant originally.

Yaknow?

01-31-2010, 07:14 PM   #38
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Despite what others think about my feelings towards Americans Mike, I'm sure you're not in that camp. They're just sulking because their threads get closed when they forget how to play nice.
My previous comment was meant to be tongue in cheek. After all, America has Hollywood to give the nutters ideas.







QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
I've never held the US blameless. Sure we have done things wrong, but we are not alone in that. We are amateurs in meddling compared to some countries, such as England, Portugal, Spain and France during the 14-19th centuries during the "colonial" period. France and Japan made the mess we unsuccessfully tried to clean up in Vietnam, Russia annexed 90% or Europe before finally imploding... We had the Soviet Union's help in screwing up Korea... Need I go on?

As for nutters... Lets see....

Osama Bin Laden, Mohammad Atta, most of the 9/11 hijackers... Saudis
Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Omar Rajab Amin... Kuwaitis
Saddam Hussein, Chemical Ali, Tariq Aziz... Iraqis

Certainly I could go on and on and on. This is one area where America is completely outclassed. We don't grow nutters anywhere near as nutters as any of these guys...

However, I never did say America didn't have "nutters". Sure we have nutters but so do other countries. For instance, if you check, you will find that the rate of assaults per capita in the US and Australia are virtually identical (US - .75 per 100 & Aus - .70 per 100).

I just take exception with it having anything to do with our 2nd Amendment. I've owned firearms virtually all of my life and I've never once fired one in anger or in protection of myself or my family, however, as a law abiding citizen the capability to do so is guaranteed to me.

Mike
02-01-2010, 04:48 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
For instance, if you check, you will find that the rate of assaults per capita in the US and Australia are virtually identical (US - .75 per 100 & Aus - .70 per 100).

I just take exception with it having anything to do with our 2nd Amendment. I've owned firearms virtually all of my life and I've never once fired one in anger or in protection of myself or my family, however, as a law abiding citizen the capability to do so is guaranteed to me.
Ah Mike, stats, I love them. Try these on for size:

Homicide Rate per 100,000 (most recent):
US: 5.4
Australia: 1.2

Source: List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Let's delve a bit further using the same source:
Comparison of change in rate between 2000 & 2008:
US: 5.6/5.4 = -3.6%
Aust. 1.54/1.2 = -23.6%

Gun control restriction were introduced in Australia in 1987, 1996 and 2002. Let's look at the rate change over this period:

Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm related deaths in Australia declined 47%.
Source: Mouzos, Jenny and Rushforth, Catherine (2003). Trends and Issues in Crime and Criminal Justice No. 269: Firearm related deaths in Australia, 1991-2001. Australian Institute of Criminology. ISBN 0-642-53821-2; ISSN 0817-8542. Australian Institute of Criminology - Error.

Look at the article on the effects of Gun Control in Australia here: Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting stat from the beginning of that article:
Currently, about 5.2% of Australian adults (765,000 people) own and use firearms for purposes such as hunting, controlling feral animals, collecting and target shooting. That was from the Sporting Shooter Association of Australia (SSAA), not government propaganda. I wonder how that compares to the US?

Whatever Australia has done, it appears to be working.

Mike, when the mayhem gets too much for you, and you bring your family to live here, when you put your weary head down on your pillow at night, you will be able to sleep soundly (like me), without worrying about whether or not you've placed your pistol under that pillow.

BTW, when I was younger, I was a hunter and a member of SSAA. I was also in the Australian Army Reserve for over 8 years and instructed on & used firearms of many types.

Dan.

Last edited by dosdan; 02-01-2010 at 05:12 AM.
02-01-2010, 05:09 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
After all, America has Hollywood to give the nutters ideas.
How many posters have you seen for US action movies where one or more of the stars is not holding a gun?
02-01-2010, 06:59 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by dosdan Quote
Ah Mike, stats, I love them. Try these on for size:

Homicide Rate per 100,000 (most recent):
US: 5.4
Australia: 1.2







Dan.
I'm not really a NRA supporter nor an "apologist" for American aggression but if you want to use statistics here is one you Aussies should not be too proud of:
Tied w/ New Zealand for 3rd place in assaults.... (US 9th)
And #1 in total crime victims (US 15th).......
Total crime victims (most recent) by country
You may not have gun problems but you have problems if you look at it statistically.......
#1 in car thefts, burglaries, and total crime.....
http://www.nationmaster.com/country/as/Top-Rankings
Better check these listings more closely.
Maybe you need more guns......
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

Last edited by jeffkrol; 02-01-2010 at 07:51 AM.
02-01-2010, 07:37 AM   #42
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You know, I've always wanted to see Australia, but I'm sort of afraid to go there. You can't go near any water without the risk of being attacked by sharks or crocks, kangaroos run wild in the streets and jump all over people's cars, and even if you do survive all of that you'll get bit by poisonous spiders or snakes, or die of heat stroke because the temperature never drops below 120 degrees Fahrenheit. I know all of that is true because I have seen it in movies.
02-01-2010, 07:38 AM   #43
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I think Dosdan should have the cops over a couple of times a month to have a look around to make sure everything is o.k. at his place and maybe have a peak at his hard drive to make sure there are no inappropriate images on there. What's inappropriate will be at the officers' discretion.


QuoteOriginally posted by dosdan:
] . . . BTW, when I was younger, I was a hunter and a member of SSAA. I was also in the Australian Army Reserve for over 8 years and instructed on & used firearms of many types.
That's all fine and good. There have been situations in our military where many men that enlisted or were drafted were already marksmen and the military was damn glad about because there were wars going on at the time. Several of my great uncles, uncles and dad fell into this category. We've had a youth marksmanship program for that very reason.

Last edited by Blue; 02-01-2010 at 07:46 AM.
02-01-2010, 08:21 AM   #44
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There are really three things you can be sure of.....Death, Taxes, and Guns in America. All the back and forth talk is fine, but the guns will still be here, and if the Aussies had the right to vote, they would be there too.
As for idiotic conspiracy theories...sure I believe there are plenty of conspiracies, it is just that most of them never materialize. My Squirrels plan to take over the world....will they make it? More likely than that currency we see here. Of course conspiracies do make the cut....they plotted to get the guns from law abiding Aussie citizens....and they did it! Won't happen here, too many of us would use our guns to "Just Say No". You come knockin' on my door for my guns and I will first give you all my ammo....and millions of others will do the same.
Regards!
02-01-2010, 08:34 AM   #45
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1. Banning guns works, which is why New York, DC, & Chicago cops need guns.

2. Washington DC's low murder rate of 69 per 100,000 is due to strict gun control, and Indianapolis' high murder rate of 9 per 100,000 is due to the lack of gun control.

3. Statistics showing high murder rates justify gun control but statistics showing increasing murder rates after gun control are "just statistics."

4. The Brady Bill and the Assault Weapons Ban, both of which went into effect in 1994 are responsible for the decrease in violent crime rates, which have been declining since 1991.

5. We must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time and anyone who would own a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid.

6. The more helpless you are the safer you are from criminals.

7. An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.

8. A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

9. When confronted by violent criminals, you should "put up no defense -- give them what they want, or run" (Handgun Control Inc. Chairman Pete Shields, Guns Don't Die - People Do, 1981, p.125).

10. The New England Journal of Medicine is filled with expert advice about guns; just like Guns & Ammo has some excellent treatises on heart surgery.

11. One should consult an automotive engineer for safer seatbelts, a civil engineer for a better bridge, a surgeon for internal medicine, a computer programmer for hard drive problems, and Sarah Brady for firearms expertise.

12. The 2nd Amendment, ratified in 1787, refers to the National Guard, which was created 130 years later, in 1917.

13. The National Guard, federally funded, with bases on federal land, using federally-owned weapons, vehicles, buildings and uniforms, punishing trespassers under federal law, is a "state" militia.

14. These phrases: "right of the people peaceably to assemble," "right of the people to be secure in their homes," "enumerations herein of certain rights shall not be construed to disparage others retained by the people," and "The powers not delegated herein are reserved to the states respectively, and to the people" all refer to individuals, but "the right of the people to keep and bear arm" refers to the state.

15. "The Constitution is strong and will never change." But we should ban and seize all guns thereby violating the 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments to that Constitution.

16. Rifles and handguns aren't necessary to national defense! Of course, the army has hundreds of thousands of them.

17. Private citizens shouldn't have handguns, because they aren't "military weapons", but private citizens shouldn't have "assault rifles", because they are military weapons.

18. In spite of waiting periods, background checks, finger printing, government forms, etc., guns today are too readily available, which is responsible for recent school shootings. In the 1940's, 1950's and1960's, anyone could buy guns at hardware stores, army surplus stores, gas stations, variety stores, Sears mail order, no waiting, no background check, no fingerprints, no government forms and there were no school shootings.

19. The NRA's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign about kids handling guns is propaganda, but the anti-gun lobby's attempt to run a "don't touch" campaign is responsible social activity.

20. Guns are so complex that special training is necessary to use them properly, and so simple to use that they make murder easy.

21. A handgun, with up to 4 controls, is far too complex for the typical adult to learn to use, as opposed to an automobile that only has 20.

22. Women are just as intelligent and capable as men but a woman with a gun is "an accident waiting to happen" and gun makers' advertisements aimed at women are "preying on their fears."

23. Ordinary people in the presence of guns turn into slaughtering butchers but revert to normal when the weapon is removed.

24. Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

25. A majority of the population supports gun control, just like a majority of the population supported owning slaves.

26. Any self-loading small arm can legitimately be considered to be a "weapon of mass destruction" or an "assault weapon."

27. Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.

28. The right of Internet pornographers to exist cannot be questioned because it is constitutionally protected by the Bill of Rights, but the use of handguns for self defense is not really protected by the Bill of Rights.

29. Free speech entitles one to own newspapers, transmitters, computers, and typewriters, but self-defense only justifies bare hands.

30. The ACLU is good because it uncompromisingly defends certain parts of the Constitution, and the NRA is bad, because it defends other parts of the Constitution.

31. Charlton Heston, a movie actor as president of the NRA is a cheap lunatic who should be ignored, but Michael Douglas, a movie actor as a representative of Handgun Control, Inc. is an ambassador for peace who is entitled to an audience at the UN arms control summit.

32. Police operate with backup within groups, which is why they need larger capacity pistol magazines than do "civilians" who must face criminals alone and therefore need less ammunition.

33. We should ban "Saturday Night Specials" and other inexpensive guns because it's not fair that poor people have access to guns too.

34. Police officers have some special Jedi-like mastery over hand guns that private citizens can never hope to obtain.

35. Private citizens don't need a gun for self-protection because the police are there to protect them even though the Supreme Court says the police are not responsible for their protection.

36. Citizens don't need to carry a gun for personal protection but police chiefs, who are desk-bound administrators who work in a building filled with cops, need a gun.

37. "Assault weapons" have no purpose other than to kill large numbers of people. The police need assault weapons. You do not.

38. When Microsoft pressures its distributors to give Microsoft preferential promotion, that's bad; but when the Federal government pressures cities to buy guns only from Smith & Wesson, that's good.

39. Trigger locks do not interfere with the ability to use a gun for defensive purposes, which is why you see police officers with one on their duty weapon.

40. Handgun Control, Inc. says they want to "keep guns out of the wrong hands." Guess what? You have the wrong hands.


"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
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