Warning - ProDigital2000 on ebay....

**hyyz** · 02-12-2010, 09:41 PM

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Even if I may wait for my lens, by no mean I will wait for more than 3 weeks for them to ship it. The reason? It is too close to the 45 day limit for me to file a claim with eBay. 21 days + shipping time + communication with seller about shipment is just too close to 45 days, I guess. It is just too easy to miss the 45 day limit.

I know I can directly call my CC company to ask them to dispute the charge after a week or so wait time. That way, I'll let CC company to deal with PayPal, eBay, and the seller.

I seriously suspect the seller is using our payment to buy the lenses afterward. They have low stock because they lack money.

Pentaxor · 02-13-2010, 01:55 AM

I'd say you contact the seller first, ask them regarding their stock and when are they going to ship if ever you made payment. keep those as record. and dont leave a feedback asap. if ever they fail to do their part of the bargain, report it as fraud and you need to be reimbursed 100% without any extra charge due to their scam or inability to provide services or goods that were never there.

Ben_Edict · 02-13-2010, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by stl09

1. Because they didn't say they didn't have stock and were not expecting stock for quite some time. I don't appreciate paying for something and then not have it arrive within a reasonable time frame.
2. They could of avoided this whole thing with a simple email right after the auction completed saying they over sold the item but were expecting stock. They could of offered to continue to wait or refund.
3. They should not of charged my credit card for something that was not in stock. Other vendors do not charge when items are backordered, they only charge once it has shipped.
They are at fault not me and far as buying from them again they are not the only pentax dealer....

I full understand your annoyance. That lack of basic communications is a poor service.

BUT you were paying through PayPal. So ProDigital2000 did not charge anything off your credit card! PayPal simply took the money off your credit card and transfered it to ProDigital2000 at your order. At least this is not the seller's fault.

But ofcourse you would have probably not initiated that payment, if you'd known the non-delivery status.

Ben

pcarfan · 02-13-2010, 07:35 AM

I had no problems with Prodigital-2000, however I had similar issues with Amazon. I am currently awaiting a refund for an item.

d.bradley · 02-13-2010, 09:06 AM

I'm amazed that one can charge for back-ordered items effectively selling stock you don't have, without even notifying the consumer. Not the best business practice.

**hyyz** · 02-13-2010, 09:45 AM

I was amazed their feedback rating on eBay is so high. I checked their rating before the purchase. Now, it seems I am not the only one that is caught in this situation. I think people should all take the eBay feedback seriously and make it really helpful to others.

I wish I had seen this thread before my purchase.

stl09 · 02-13-2010, 01:22 PM

Ben,

Oh but they did charge my credit card. I verified with Discover and there was charge for the lens but they showed up as Carmen Photo on the day of the auction. I pulled a copy of my statement to verify what I was being told by customer service.

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

I full understand your annoyance. That lack of basic communications is a poor service.

BUT you were paying through PayPal. So ProDigital2000 did not charge anything off your credit card! PayPal simply took the money off your credit card and transfered it to ProDigital2000 at your order. At least this is not the seller's fault.

But ofcourse you would have probably not initiated that payment, if you'd known the non-delivery status.

Ben

stl09 · 02-13-2010, 01:24 PM

I have never had any issues with Amazon allow I would say stay away from their used lenses. I ordered something prior to the holidays and based on the description it sounded like a great deal. When the lens arrived it was not in the best of condition even though it was packed just fine.

Originally posted by pcarfan

I had no problems with Prodigital-2000, however I had similar issues with Amazon. I am currently awaiting a refund for an item.

Ben_Edict · 02-13-2010, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by stl09

Ben,

Oh but they did charge my credit card. I verified with Discover and there was charge for the lens but they showed up as Carmen Photo on the day of the auction. I pulled a copy of my statement to verify what I was being told by customer service.

How the hell can they charge your credit card, if you payed via PayPal? It should be PayPal who charge your credit card and that is an automated process, which can only be triggered by you, not by the seller. The seller does not even get your credit card details - that is the reason, why I use Paypal, because I do not need to distribute my credit card details around the globe, it stays just at one single instance, at Paypal - and so I know, who is responsible, if something goes wrong.

If you payed via PayPal, you should send them a note, that they refund your credit card account in full.

Ben

FHPhotographer · 02-13-2010, 11:45 PM

I believe that any charge to your credit card or bank account by PayPal is on behalf of ABC Merchant becomes PayPal's money the moment it leaves your bank/credit card account. Basically, you are paying PayPal and they are paying the merchant. And that means that when/if the ABC Merchant refunds your money they are really refunding PayPal's money until they move it along to your bank.

Seems like a small detail, but it matters when you think about another PayPal policy that gives them unilateral authority to "lock" your account if they have any reason to believe there is a problem with the transaction. Like maybe you file a grievance? Or ABC doesn't process the refund by a PayPal deadline, or somebody somewhere screwed up something or other? While they investigate that problem, your funds are locked and you have no appeal to this process, what's being done and how long it takes. In 2008 PayPal reportedly had $60 billion in transactions; imagine hypothetically that your few "locked" account dollars are added to a few hundred thousand other locked accounts with their dollars, and that it adds up to one tenth of one percent in "locked" accounts at any given time. It's just a detail, of course, but that detail would amount to $60 million interest-free cash.
Brian

SteveM · 02-13-2010, 11:57 PM

I am disappointed to hear about this, I am a loyal customer of theirs. It's a small shop...why not call them to place an order...they have always delivered for me....

**hyyz** · 02-16-2010, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by smc

I am disappointed to hear about this, I am a loyal customer of theirs. It's a small shop...why not call them to place an order...they have always delivered for me....

For buyers from other areas, if eBay/Paypal can't make the seller honest and trustworthy, how much confidence can a phone call to them give? I definitely don't want to give them my CC info after an incident like this.

BTW, I just noticed the seller canceled all such listings before auctions end. Now, I am going to see what they are going to do with the lens I won...and keep you posted.

matiki · 02-16-2010, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by stl09

First I had purchased items from them in the past and had been satisfied with them.

The problems began a couple of weeks ago. They had posted a bunch of different pentax lenses for sale on a Friday afternoon. I completed the auction and paid for it thru paypal and figured it would be here in a week or so.
After two weeks and nothing I contacted them only to find out they did not have stock nor did the auction state this. They stated they were waiting for Pentax to deliver and were hoping for them to arrive by the end of the month, but this was not a guarantee. Needless to say I was not happy with them regarding their lack of communication and that had already charged my credit card.
Mind you I take feedback very serious and left them feedback that I felt was appropriate for their lack of communication. This really seemed to tick them off and they quickly said they were refunding. I responded and said that I didn't want a refund and was willing to wait, but they should of emailed the week before to tell us of the delay when they knew they didn't have product to ship out. They couldn't seem to get past this and I contacted Ebay customer support and told them of the situation. It still didn't make any difference to them and I got a refund this morning but with a little extra twist. They processed the refund so that I got charged a fee for the refund.

All I can say is that I will never be buying from them again if this is they way want to treat their customers.

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. I'm sure a complaint to Ebay will rectify the partial refund issue. Their policy is quite clear, items must be in stock for the duration of the listing.

Selling practices policy

Quote:

Product availability

When buyers bid on or purchase an item on eBay, they should feel confident that the item is available and will be delivered in a timely manner.

What to do

*

You must ensure the items you are offering are in stock for the duration of the listing and are delivered to the buyer, unless the buyer doesn't meet the terms of your listing.
*

If you run into an inventory problem that's beyond your control, you're still responsible for letting the buyer know when the item will be available or issuing a refund for the full amount immediately.

What not to do

*

You're not allowed to:
o

List an item that may be out of stock at the time of purchase.
o

List an item that you're simultaneously selling outside of eBay.
o

Offer an item that may not be what's delivered to the buyer.

pxpaulx · 02-16-2010, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by hyyz

For buyers from other areas, if eBay/Paypal can't make the seller honest and trustworthy, how much confidence can a phone call to them give? I definitely don't want to give them my CC info after an incident like this.

BTW, I just noticed the seller canceled all such listings before auctions end. Now, I am going to see what they are going to do with the lens I won...and keep you posted.

If you are concerned, why don't you be pro-active and ask them what will occur instead of waiting around hoping you can rat them out later on internet forums? Perhaps they have had problems with Pentax Canada stock, but do not wish to communicate that to their customers, thus hurting their corporate relationship as well, and their ability to offer such great prices. That is the reason you bought from them in the first place is it not? Good prices?

stl09 · 02-16-2010, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by matiki

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. I'm sure a complaint to Ebay will rectify the partial refund issue. Their policy is quite clear, items must be in stock for the duration of the listing.

Selling practices policy

The policy may be clear but they seem to be getting away with it

I did complain to ebay and they just passed me off to paypal, still waiting on a response from them.

02-13-2010, 01:22 PM	#22
stl09 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Photos: Gallery Posts: 487 Original Poster	prodigital Ben, Oh but they did charge my credit card. I verified with Discover and there was charge for the lens but they showed up as Carmen Photo on the day of the auction. I pulled a copy of my statement to verify what I was being told by customer service. Originally posted by Ben_Edict I full understand your annoyance. That lack of basic communications is a poor service. BUT you were paying through PayPal. So ProDigital2000 did not charge anything off your credit card! PayPal simply took the money off your credit card and transfered it to ProDigital2000 at your order. At least this is not the seller's fault. But ofcourse you would have probably not initiated that payment, if you'd known the non-delivery status. Ben

02-13-2010, 01:24 PM	#23
stl09 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Photos: Gallery Posts: 487 Original Poster	prodigital I have never had any issues with Amazon allow I would say stay away from their used lenses. I ordered something prior to the holidays and based on the description it sounded like a great deal. When the lens arrived it was not in the best of condition even though it was packed just fine. Originally posted by pcarfan I had no problems with Prodigital-2000, however I had similar issues with Amazon. I am currently awaiting a refund for an item.

02-13-2010, 11:45 PM	#25
FHPhotographer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fountain Hills, AZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,297	I believe that any charge to your credit card or bank account by PayPal is on behalf of ABC Merchant becomes PayPal's money the moment it leaves your bank/credit card account. Basically, you are paying PayPal and they are paying the merchant. And that means that when/if the ABC Merchant refunds your money they are really refunding PayPal's money until they move it along to your bank. Seems like a small detail, but it matters when you think about another PayPal policy that gives them unilateral authority to "lock" your account if they have any reason to believe there is a problem with the transaction. Like maybe you file a grievance? Or ABC doesn't process the refund by a PayPal deadline, or somebody somewhere screwed up something or other? While they investigate that problem, your funds are locked and you have no appeal to this process, what's being done and how long it takes. In 2008 PayPal reportedly had $60 billion in transactions; imagine hypothetically that your few "locked" account dollars are added to a few hundred thousand other locked accounts with their dollars, and that it adds up to one tenth of one percent in "locked" accounts at any given time. It's just a detail, of course, but that detail would amount to $60 million interest-free cash. Brian Last edited by FHPhotographer; 02-13-2010 at 11:54 PM.

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02-12-2010, 09:41 PM	#16
hyyz Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 478	Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here. Even if I may wait for my lens, by no mean I will wait for more than 3 weeks for them to ship it. The reason? It is too close to the 45 day limit for me to file a claim with eBay. 21 days + shipping time + communication with seller about shipment is just too close to 45 days, I guess. It is just too easy to miss the 45 day limit. I know I can directly call my CC company to ask them to dispute the charge after a week or so wait time. That way, I'll let CC company to deal with PayPal, eBay, and the seller. I seriously suspect the seller is using our payment to buy the lenses afterward. They have low stock because they lack money.

02-13-2010, 01:55 AM	#17
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	I'd say you contact the seller first, ask them regarding their stock and when are they going to ship if ever you made payment. keep those as record. and dont leave a feedback asap. if ever they fail to do their part of the bargain, report it as fraud and you need to be reimbursed 100% without any extra charge due to their scam or inability to provide services or goods that were never there.

02-13-2010, 04:46 AM	#18
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by stl09 1. Because they didn't say they didn't have stock and were not expecting stock for quite some time. I don't appreciate paying for something and then not have it arrive within a reasonable time frame. 2. They could of avoided this whole thing with a simple email right after the auction completed saying they over sold the item but were expecting stock. They could of offered to continue to wait or refund. 3. They should not of charged my credit card for something that was not in stock. Other vendors do not charge when items are backordered, they only charge once it has shipped. They are at fault not me and far as buying from them again they are not the only pentax dealer.... I full understand your annoyance. That lack of basic communications is a poor service. BUT you were paying through PayPal. So ProDigital2000 did not charge anything off your credit card! PayPal simply took the money off your credit card and transfered it to ProDigital2000 at your order. At least this is not the seller's fault. But ofcourse you would have probably not initiated that payment, if you'd known the non-delivery status. Ben

02-13-2010, 07:35 AM	#19
pcarfan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,978	I had no problems with Prodigital-2000, however I had similar issues with Amazon. I am currently awaiting a refund for an item.

02-13-2010, 09:06 AM	#20
d.bradley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 631	I'm amazed that one can charge for back-ordered items effectively selling stock you don't have, without even notifying the consumer. Not the best business practice.

02-13-2010, 09:45 AM	#21
hyyz Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 478	I was amazed their feedback rating on eBay is so high. I checked their rating before the purchase. Now, it seems I am not the only one that is caught in this situation. I think people should all take the eBay feedback seriously and make it really helpful to others. I wish I had seen this thread before my purchase.

02-13-2010, 01:28 PM	#24
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by stl09 Ben, Oh but they did charge my credit card. I verified with Discover and there was charge for the lens but they showed up as Carmen Photo on the day of the auction. I pulled a copy of my statement to verify what I was being told by customer service. How the hell can they charge your credit card, if you payed via PayPal? It should be PayPal who charge your credit card and that is an automated process, which can only be triggered by you, not by the seller. The seller does not even get your credit card details - that is the reason, why I use Paypal, because I do not need to distribute my credit card details around the globe, it stays just at one single instance, at Paypal - and so I know, who is responsible, if something goes wrong. If you payed via PayPal, you should send them a note, that they refund your credit card account in full. Ben

02-13-2010, 11:57 PM	#26
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294	I am disappointed to hear about this, I am a loyal customer of theirs. It's a small shop...why not call them to place an order...they have always delivered for me....

02-16-2010, 12:03 PM	#27
hyyz Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 478	Originally posted by smc I am disappointed to hear about this, I am a loyal customer of theirs. It's a small shop...why not call them to place an order...they have always delivered for me.... For buyers from other areas, if eBay/Paypal can't make the seller honest and trustworthy, how much confidence can a phone call to them give? I definitely don't want to give them my CC info after an incident like this. BTW, I just noticed the seller canceled all such listings before auctions end. Now, I am going to see what they are going to do with the lens I won...and keep you posted.

02-16-2010, 12:46 PM	#28
matiki Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 393	Originally posted by stl09 First I had purchased items from them in the past and had been satisfied with them. The problems began a couple of weeks ago. They had posted a bunch of different pentax lenses for sale on a Friday afternoon. I completed the auction and paid for it thru paypal and figured it would be here in a week or so. After two weeks and nothing I contacted them only to find out they did not have stock nor did the auction state this. They stated they were waiting for Pentax to deliver and were hoping for them to arrive by the end of the month, but this was not a guarantee. Needless to say I was not happy with them regarding their lack of communication and that had already charged my credit card. Mind you I take feedback very serious and left them feedback that I felt was appropriate for their lack of communication. This really seemed to tick them off and they quickly said they were refunding. I responded and said that I didn't want a refund and was willing to wait, but they should of emailed the week before to tell us of the delay when they knew they didn't have product to ship out. They couldn't seem to get past this and I contacted Ebay customer support and told them of the situation. It still didn't make any difference to them and I got a refund this morning but with a little extra twist. They processed the refund so that I got charged a fee for the refund. All I can say is that I will never be buying from them again if this is they way want to treat their customers. I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. I'm sure a complaint to Ebay will rectify the partial refund issue. Their policy is quite clear, items must be in stock for the duration of the listing. Selling practices policy Quote: Product availability When buyers bid on or purchase an item on eBay, they should feel confident that the item is available and will be delivered in a timely manner. What to do * You must ensure the items you are offering are in stock for the duration of the listing and are delivered to the buyer, unless the buyer doesn't meet the terms of your listing. * If you run into an inventory problem that's beyond your control, you're still responsible for letting the buyer know when the item will be available or issuing a refund for the full amount immediately. What not to do * You're not allowed to: o List an item that may be out of stock at the time of purchase. o List an item that you're simultaneously selling outside of eBay. o Offer an item that may not be what's delivered to the buyer.

02-16-2010, 01:01 PM	#29
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Originally posted by hyyz For buyers from other areas, if eBay/Paypal can't make the seller honest and trustworthy, how much confidence can a phone call to them give? I definitely don't want to give them my CC info after an incident like this. BTW, I just noticed the seller canceled all such listings before auctions end. Now, I am going to see what they are going to do with the lens I won...and keep you posted. If you are concerned, why don't you be pro-active and ask them what will occur instead of waiting around hoping you can rat them out later on internet forums? Perhaps they have had problems with Pentax Canada stock, but do not wish to communicate that to their customers, thus hurting their corporate relationship as well, and their ability to offer such great prices. That is the reason you bought from them in the first place is it not? Good prices?

02-16-2010, 01:25 PM	#30
stl09 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO Photos: Gallery Posts: 487 Original Poster	Originally posted by matiki I'm sorry you've had a bad experience. I'm sure a complaint to Ebay will rectify the partial refund issue. Their policy is quite clear, items must be in stock for the duration of the listing. Selling practices policy The policy may be clear but they seem to be getting away with it I did complain to ebay and they just passed me off to paypal, still waiting on a response from them.