[wowtip]

Many times when I bought stuff here at Pentaxforums Marketplace and other places online the seller politely asks if I can mark it as a gift, to avoid some paypal fees.

Apart from the morality of cheating Paypal of their hard earned fees, is there a reason not to accept this kind of proposal?

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Last edited by Peter Zack; 02-21-2010 at 09:22 AM. Reason: Title change

[Peter Zack]

I'm not sure how this gets the seller out of fees. Unless you mean that you do the deal as a Personal Money transfer. NEVER EVER DO THAT ON ANY SALE. Let me repeat. NEVER DO THAT.

1) if the packing slip shows the item as a gift, the buyer is trying to avoid customs duties which in many countries with a VAT or GST or import duties, is breaking the law
2) Most importantly. if you are the buyer and use the personal money transfer paid through Paypal, you ar on your own completely.

There's no recourse on the deal if something goes sideways due to lower fees this way Paypal washes it's hands on anything done this way.
You can not ask paypal to refund to you or open a claim or do anything. They charge less to do this assuming it's a money transfer between family members or close friends. You are completely on your own if something goes wrong.

NEVER DO THAT UNLESS YOU KNOW THE PERSON PERSONALLY!!!! If that happens there's little the mod team here or paypal can do to help you.

Edit, I'm going to retitle your thread if you don't mind because I want everyone to read it. If you don't want the change, I'll reverse it.

[Rupert]

I'm not sure I follow your scenario here...how do you cheat Paypal this way? I seldom use Paypal, but would not look for a way to cheat them....or you...or anyone else. There are consequences for our actions, and the unseen consequences are the worst kind for the offender.
I had an acquaintance several years back that was always bragging about cheating the IRS and giving me a hard time for paying every dime I owed, even though I bitched about it. I reminded him that by not reporting income, he was not contributing to Soc Sec and when he retired would not have a decent check....but he showed me how he was doing his own investing and would be much better off anyhow. Then one day, with no warning and no advance indications, he just dropped over dead with a heat attack. The IRS was there faster than the mortician and confiscated everything he had in this world....leaving his wife ( she knew what he was doing) with no home, no assets, and $227. a month to live on. Nope, it doesn't pay to steal a pack of chewing gum.....I have a story about that too.
Regards!
Regards!

[deadwolfbones]

It's not about cheating paypal, it's about "cheating" the customs system in the importing country. I've only done this once and it went fine, but I don't really feel comfortable with it overall.

[JeffJS]

I don't dictate where the money comes from. Most seem to be fine with paying the tacked on fees. Either for using a CC or for the protection, or both. I also give them the option of using a paper form of payment, a luxury that ebay no longer allows. I expect international customers (outside of the USA) to know how far their government is going to make them bend over for import duties and VAT so they understand the total cost. One would be amazed at how many Don't know that they have to pay an additional close to 25% for the privilege of buying used items from abroad. The only thing I will do that may help the buyer is mark an item as USED (anymore) because it is.

[wowtip]

Peter, it is completely ok with the change of title, I just want the public opinion on this.

To clarify, I am not even sure why the question is asked, several times when I bought stuff (nothing too expensive) here and elsewhere I have got a request along the lines "Would it be ok to mark it as a Gift in PayPal, it would save me some fees". Just looking for any drawbacks there might be to allow that.

If I read your answer right Peter, the proper response would be a "No.", every time.

[dadipentak]

I've never been asked and would not agree to such a request. I don't understand the ins & outs and don't need to--it would be a misrepresentation.

[Rupert]

Is there some problem with just sticking with the truth? It seems to always work out for the best, but is seldom the first choice anymore. Why is that?
Regards!

[wlank]

Apart from the morality of cheating Paypal of their hard earned fees, is there a reason not to accept this kind of proposal?

Apart from the morality of cheating on my wife by having sexual affairs with other women, is there a reason not to do this?

[rparmar]

Wow, you guys are really coming out on the side of big morality here, which in this case is also the side of big business and big government. Perhaps this makes sense where you are, but it does not make sense everywhere.

Where I live, anything more than thirty bucks brought across the border is assumed to be for commercial purposes. When I imported my own belongings the government assumed I was going to use my own clothing and dishes for commercial purposes and was ready to assign me tax at 22%, duty, service fees, etc. etc. all piled on top of one another.

So I took some advice from my import/export agent.

The government has a cash cow, money grab operation in place, pure and simple. If I can get around this type of a swindle with an agreement on declared value between buyer and seller, then I will. And many reputable people here on the forums and elsewhere do this as a matter of course. I always state in any such transaction that I realise this limits my recourse when it comes to insurance, etc.

(But hey, insurance is another of the great scams of modern society.)

Unjust laws are made to be challenged or circumvented by any and all means. This is a victimless "crime", if indeed a crime it is.

Do unscrupulous people use this method to rip off sellers? I have never heard of it happening. There are plenty of other simple ways to accomplish the same goal. No reason to single out this one for special attention.

P.S. This has nothing to do with PayPal or any other specific payment method.

[rparmar]

Apart from the morality of cheating on my wife by having sexual affairs with other women, is there a reason not to do this?

That depends. Do the other women use PayPal?

[Reportage]

paypal is 2% of the whole transaction inclusive of everything right?

transparency is the best. If they ask for paypal, add 2% to the price. If they say they can find another who will mark as gift, let go the deal as that way...none of your problem.

From the prices of products i have seen...i wouldnt be surprised if online prices are already marked up for paypal/credit card payments...even if they dont support such payment plans.

In many cases...retail prices are usually different compared to online prices.

Well since we are all sittin' so tall in the saddle on our MORAL High Horse here... How many of our US members are writing checks to our state govt's to pay for the sales tax that is not being reported from all of those Internet purchases...


Is it 'not' ok to deceive Paypal/ebay/foreign govts, but perfectly OK not to pay sales tax to our own state governments for the Adorama / B&H purchases? Just asking?

[wowtip]

Thanks for all the feedback, much more than I expected.

I would probably not lose too much sleep over letting -someone else- avoid/cheat Paypal's money transfer fees, especially when dealing with people I "know" on these forums.