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03-22-2010, 06:37 PM   #271
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Ratlady, we know no more than we did. It is like saying I am a Texan.......what the heck does that tell you? The only part I found interesting was that you voluntarily gave up a child, not necessarily "your" child, just a child. No one "took the child" as you have claimed in the past, and if it wasn't even "your child" I can't see where you have a case for anything but a line of pure BS that you have been trying to sell us here. You want some symapthy or credability... .....how about some truth and specifics, for a change!

The only think I learned of your "beliefs" is .....
"Seriously, here, Rupert. What do you want to know. The names I call my Gods, so you can try and treat Them like you treat yours? Heh. You see, *my* faith don't work like that. You deal with *me.*"

So am I to assume that you are your own god? If so, I can't see where you are going to gain a lot of followers......For a god, you have an awful lot of problems!
Rergards!

03-22-2010, 07:04 PM   #272
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You're making crap up again, Rupert.

I haven't been speaking to you for months and you still use your own insistent disinformation as facts about me. Is that 'Truth?' Do you have the *right* to defame people either way? No.

You just want to claim that the harm you cause and are complicit in isn't 'harm' You want to claim that it's the fault of innocents, if you can possibly skew it in a way that suits your 'bible' claims to authority.


But you lie.

Do you understand this, Rupert? Claiming to know things about me which you do not...

Is a lie.

You claim your Bible entitles you to this...

But you lie.

You failing to understand my own written words does not change the fact that...

You lie.

It was not *voluntary* that I left that family, left my daughter, left the one dearest to me at the time. People talking like *you* simply threatened to hurt my child worse if I stayed. I would have given anything for her, and did in fact give about all I had. I just couldn't protect her. Because I was chronically-ill and supposed to die. (Did in fact die, at that, interestingly-enough.)


Don't you *dare* try to twist that into your 'backwards,' troll.

And when I say *you deal with me,* no, I am not claiming to be a Goddess or something. I'm simply saying.

Face *me.*
03-22-2010, 09:41 PM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
You're making crap up again, Rupert.

I haven't been speaking to you for months and you still use your own insistent disinformation as facts about me. Is that 'Truth?' Do you have the *right* to defame people either way? No.

You just want to claim that the harm you cause and are complicit in isn't 'harm' You want to claim that it's the fault of innocents, if you can possibly skew it in a way that suits your 'bible' claims to authority.


But you lie.

Do you understand this, Rupert? Claiming to know things about me which you do not...

Is a lie.

You claim your Bible entitles you to this...

But you lie.

You failing to understand my own written words does not change the fact that...

You lie.

[COLOR="Red"]It was not *voluntary* that I left that family, left my daughter, left the one dearest to me at the time. People talking like *you* simply threatened to hurt my child worse if I stayed. I would have given anything for her, and did in fact give about all I had. I just couldn't protect her. Because I was chronically-ill and supposed to die. (Did in fact die, at that, interestingly-enough.)
[/COLOR]

Don't you *dare* try to twist that into your 'backwards,' troll.

And when I say *you deal with me,* no, I am not claiming to be a Goddess or something. I'm simply saying.

Face *me.*


Ratlady Liar, there are many here that recall your post here and subsequent references to it, where you told of "your child" being taken from you.....alluding to the Fundies as being responsible. Now you can't even say that YOU even have a child, and very plainly above you state that you left your child. No Fundies, no Judge, no kidnappers in the night.....YOU LEFT YOUR CHILD and have yet to prove that you ever had a child. Can you provide papers to show you ever had a child? Regardless, you were lying then or are lying now......so it makes you a certified liar pushing an agenda based on lies. I consider anything you post as pure agenda driven trash where the truth is not discernible. I doubt that anyone here is surprised....
Regards
03-23-2010, 06:48 PM   #274
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A response Ratlady, or do you just want to be known as a proven liar? You are so quick to jump on any opportunityto post your agenda driven dribble when you see the slightest connection to anything that does no agree with your "lifestyle", but appatently being a proven liar is not offensive to you in the least? Why is that?
Regards!

03-23-2010, 07:07 PM   #275
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The connection is ...The bigotry you and others push, Rupert. That should be clear enough. As I said multiple times, you are the one who claimed I said there was some judge involved. When that was just what you imagined. You are the one that claims being forced to do the last thing I would have wanted to because of *duress * and our family having no possibility of legal recourse.. constitutes 'voluntary abandonment.'

Your claims of 'lies' are off-base. Lies, themselves, not to put too fine a point on it. It's *your* view of the situation which is contradictory, not mine.
03-23-2010, 07:22 PM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
The connection is ...The bigotry you and others push, Rupert. That should be clear enough. As I said multiple times, you are the one who claimed I said there was some judge involved. When that was just what you imagined. You are the one that claims being forced to do the last thing I would have wanted to because of *duress * and our family having no possibility of legal recourse.. constitutes 'voluntary abandonment.'

Your claims of 'lies' are off-base. Lies, themselves, not to put too fine a point on it. It's *your* view of the situation which is contradictory, not mine.
Add one more lie to your liars list Ratlady....or show me where I ever said a Judge took your child. I asked you if a Judge took your child in a Court of Law, and to tell us why and provide us a transcript. Of course, you never did because it was all a totally misleading lie that "your" child was taken from you. You have plainly admitted here that you ABANDONED YOUR CHILD. Haven't you heard Ratlady, one lie leads to another....that is now three in two days........And what kind of religion of yours is it that you want us to admire? Is lying a virtue in your religion?
Regards!
03-23-2010, 07:42 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Add one more lie to your liars list Ratlady....or show me where I ever said a Judge took your child. I asked you if a Judge took your child in a Court of Law, and to tell us why and provide us a transcript. Of course, you never did because it was all a totally misleading lie that "your" child was taken from you. You have plainly admitted here that you ABANDONED YOUR CHILD. Haven't you heard Ratlady, one lie leads to another....that is now three in two days........And what kind of religion of yours is it that you want us to admire? Is lying a virtue in your religion?
Regards!
No, *you* demanded I produce transcripts and claimed I had said there was a judge involved. Then you continue to claim *I'm* lying when I say I never said that.

At least you've admitted that my daughter via a same-sex relationship was my child. What you *won't* admit is that it was the bigotry of people like you that made that heartbreak necessary. I did not *offer* details. If you put anything together, though, you'd maybe realize I was sick, supposedly terminally, on the run from hostile family, unable to get treatment, and not expected to survive, never mind really able to provide once discrimination stood to cost us our home, not to mention custody for either of us. While she was being harassed at school over us and we were unable to protect her there. We simply had no recourse.

These are all things that people felt entitled, if not 'commanded' to do to us because of things like *you* say, Rupert. You seem to insist that anyone who says this causes real harm when you point and say 'Evil,' ...must be lying. Even if it's you who do the lying and claim you have 'special permission.'

No conscience about that? Not even a wee bit?


Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 03-23-2010 at 07:52 PM.
03-23-2010, 07:53 PM   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
No, *you* demanded I produce transcripts and claimed I had said there was a judge involved. Then you continue to claim *I'm* lying when I say I never said that.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote

At least you've admitted that my daughter via a same-sex relationship was my child. What you *won't* admit is that it was the bigotry of people like you that made that heartbreak necessary. I did not *offer* details. We simply had no recourse.
So, can you post the link Ratlady? Of course not, because it would give you lie number four in two days!

I have admitted no such thing! Are you going to tell us that you actually gave birth to a child? Be careful....I save all these and it could haunt you in the future, just as your current lies are haunting you now. So....yes or no, did you give birth to the child you ABANDONED? You know, the one that the "Fundies" DID NOT TAKE?
Regards!
03-23-2010, 07:55 PM   #279
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You're just confused, Rupert. And claiming that gives you the right to make mean-spirited and false accusations.

No, I don't take notes on your every ridiculous word.
03-23-2010, 09:22 PM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
You're just confused, Rupert. And claiming that gives you the right to make mean-spirited and false accusations.

No, I don't take notes on your every ridiculous word.
Avoiding the question again aren't you Ratlady? I guess lie #4 would be hard for you to add to your growing list.


You really should take notes, when you lie like you do, it will help you keep your lies straight...but eventually, they will catch you anyhow, as they have here.
Regards!
03-23-2010, 09:32 PM   #281
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There *is* no question, Rupert. You're just trolling.
03-24-2010, 06:36 AM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
There *is* no question, Rupert. You're just trolling.
That's lie #4 Ratlady, you are beginning to sound like the Master Liar I always knew you were, now everyone else knows it too. You avoid the question because it would constitute lie #5 in three days, and you know it. Take a few years off Ratlady, try to straighten out your twisted and pathetic life,( according to what you have written on this Forum) and then come back after you have learned how to tell the truth. If you do that, you will be unrecognizable here for sure.
Regards!
02-17-2011, 02:44 PM   #283
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I may be a bit late for this discussion, and it has gone off topic quite a few times, but I thought I had a few cents to contribute to the original topic.

I'm surprised at how much support the King James Version got. If modern readers of the Bible want to get hold of a Bible that is as accurate as possible, for the purpose of an historical reading, they should steer clear of the KJV. Not only is the KJV (AKA the Authorised Version or AV) written in very old english (which, fyi, it was even when it was written!!!), it is also based largely on the Textus Receptus, which is a very late Latin manuscript.

Most modern Bibles are much more historically accurate because they are based on scientific textual criticism techniques. More and older copies of the Bible have been found since the KJV was translated, and all these manuscripts have been examined and compared. We are now fairly confident that we are closer to the original text than we have been for centuries.

QuoteOriginally posted by dosdan Quote
The discovery of the DSS is not important are regards the question of God hiding His word or not. As I understand it, no important new works were found, as far as Christians are concerned. What is important to us is that up to that time the oldest hebrew scriptures were the Masoretic ones from 9th Century AD. The DSS contains manuscripts from 2nd Century BC. The comparison of the 22 manuscripts found from the book of Isiah, one of the most important books in the OT for Christians, showed there there has been very little difference in the two versions. Comparisons like this showed that holy scripture has survived the process of copying and transmission over time remarkably well.
This is quite true. Thank you.

Now, to get a really good historical reading of the Bible you would have to go back to the original Hebrew / Greek / Aramaic. I'm assuming the average reader will not be willing to put in the time and effort to learn the language and cultural setting of these languages. Therefore we normally settle for a translation. So how to pick a translation?

Anyone who has tried to translate something from one language to another knows that it's usually impossible to make a word-for-word translation, even among very similar and related languages. When we get to not-so-similar languages, things like sentence structure change. Not to mention idioms and figures of speech, which if translated literally would make no sense (like what was mentioned in this thread earlier - a translation of prayer into a South American language as something like, "wagging one's tail in front of a foreign overlord"!!!)

Translations vary from very literal to what we call "dynamic". A literal translation will TRY to follow the sentence structure as closely as possible. This often makes the translation very wooden and hard to read. However, it does mean it's close to the original in WORDING. Some good modern "literal" translations are (in order of my preference): the English Standard Version (ESV), the NET Bible, the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) and the New American Standard Bible (NASB). Most of these versions have been updated from time to time to reflect advances in Textual Criticism, newly found manuscripts, and changes in the English language. In order to get the most historically accurate version, please make sure you get the latest update or revision.

Moving on to dynamic translations. These try to help bridge the gap between the original readers in the original language and context, and us. They are an idea-by-idea translation. This means they try to convey the meaning of the sentence in the way we as English speakers would say it, even if it means changing words or sentence structure a bit in the process. This is all good and well, but in order to do this we must first be able to understand what the author meant in the first place, in the original language! And for various sections of the Bible, this is much debated! So when reading a dynamic translation you are reading the biases and opinions of the translation team. Good examples of dynamic translations in my preferential order are as follows: New International Version (NIV) and the New Living Translation (NLT). Again, please make sure you pick up the latest edition of these, as they have been significantly modified over the years. Note that the latest NIV is just coming out now. It is available online, but is still hard to get in print. Mark 1 - PassageLookup - New International Version, ©2010 - BibleGateway.com

So here you are between a rock and a hard place. Do you take a literal translation and struggle to understand it? Or do you take a dynamic translation and read more of the translator's opinions and biases? Probably the best thing to do (apart from going back to the original languages) is to read a selection of versions, some of each of the literal and dynamic.

I hope this helps others who may in the future be looking for a Bible to read for historical, cultural or interest's sake.
02-17-2011, 03:28 PM   #284
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I'm a serious student of all the major religions and their literature, but in terms of the Bible and related documents I'm partial to this. It's got every version of the Bible you could ever want and almost every relevant study book, maps, glossaries, et all too. I first got a version of this program when I was in college and I took several classes in comparative religion and the Bible as literature and it proved just invaluable.

My personal favorites are the Catholic Bibles, the Douay and the New American Bible. KJV was pretty standard usage around here when I was growing up but it's a bit too flowery in terms of the speech for my taste. KJV to me is too much like reading Shakespeare but it's not nearly as much fun as reading Shakespeare, so I seldom bother with it anymore. Bible Works is a bit pricey but worth if if you can afford it. You can find it available via some schools with a student discount. It's a lot cheaper that way.

Bibleworks: Full Version

If not, this freeware program is pretty good and has a lot of versions.

e-Sword - the Sword of the LORD with an electronic edge
02-17-2011, 03:36 PM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by secateurs Quote

So here you are between a rock and a hard place. Do you take a literal translation and struggle to understand it? Or do you take a dynamic translation and read more of the translator's opinions and biases? Probably the best thing to do (apart from going back to the original languages) is to read a selection of versions, some of each of the literal and dynamic.

I hope this helps others who may in the future be looking for a Bible to read for historical, cultural or interest's sake.
that is if one would consider doing such task. problem is who would be willing enough to set aside their bias towards other religion and study them on both sides of the coin? most often, people are stubborn and would rather force the issue into one.

one thing I have noticed during my limited study of world religions is that each religion contains certain inadequacy of explaining things and would rather fall upon the reader for personal opinion on what to follow. I somehow laugh at what is being taught by certain leaders of faith is somehow suggests or favor their own belief. not to negate nor connect/intertwine with others. personally, no religion is perfect and the very teachings of what is included in the scriptures can be used to contradict the other if one's opinion is enforced.

for someone who wants to study these things without any prejudice, would take a lot dedication and time.
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