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03-05-2010, 10:49 AM   #1
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Obama Now Supports Miltary Trials for Terrorists

I guess he's been against it long enough now that he can switch to being in favor of it and make it sound like it was his idea.

CNN Story

03-05-2010, 11:35 AM   #2
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Since these people were all captured during or as a result of armed hostilities against the United States, the Geneva Convention requires the convening of a military tribunal to determine if they are "Privileged (Lawful) Combatants" or "Unprivileged (Unlawful) Combatants" (see Wikipedia - Combatant) If they are determined to be Lawful Combatants (which is doubtful given the definition) then they can be further tried in a formal military tribunal. If, as is more likely IMHO, they are adjudged to be Unlawful Combatants, then they are supposed to be tried in civilian courts.

Now I don't like it, but since, under everything I understand about the "Laws of War," these guys were all "Unlawful Combatants" and so should be tried as such in civilian courts. To try them in a military tribunal expands the concept of a Lawful Combatant to future terrorists and also warrants their safety if captured (a privilege not "guaranteed" to unlawful combatants since they are not legally protected by the conventions).

The only good thing about trying these guys in military tribunals is that the rules of evidence are less onerous and their appeals more limited. However, they will all be convicted regardless so why not do it in a civilian court where they are not afforded the honor of being considered "soldiers" rather than the scum criminals that they are.

Mike

Last edited by MRRiley; 03-05-2010 at 12:06 PM. Reason: damned typos
03-05-2010, 11:59 AM   #3
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Those are good points Mike, and I have mixed feelings about which way it should be. My issue is with a President that can't seem to make up his mind about ANYTHING and just flat refuses to do anything he said he would do (except spend more money than anybody in history).
03-05-2010, 01:28 PM   #4
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Get used to the flip flops. We have a collection of dumb asses in the big committee driving the bus now. I think they have installed about 10 steering wheels, 6 brake pedals, half of the 20 gas pedals were made by Toyota and all carry weapons that shoot marshmellows only from the hip and only at inert objects.

Maybe we can pay millions to some fly speck So Pacific island-country to do the military trials now that Club Gitmo is closing. Be sure they have nice weather and good facilites.

Be sure and read 'em all the Miranda rights before the military trials and definetly before any fresh captures get to talk to any intellegence wonks. Give each one a water board for belly surfing too.

Yuh think the AG will resign with the rest of the head scratchers with the bewildered looks?

Ramzi, one the the first WTC bombers said Americans are stupid.

It's all great comedy.

03-05-2010, 01:35 PM   #5
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Maybe it's not about 'flip-flopping,' so much as politics being the art of the possible.

Frankly, I don't think that those connected with 9/11 deserve the dignity of being called a 'military' in any way.

Frankly, I think New Yorkers would be the best people for them to face, actually. This is not, however, what New Yorkers seem to want. So.

'Flip-flop?' Or actually jjust being responsive, rather than claiming eternal rightness and doing like Bush did, which is to say, doing whatever he wanted, regardless of how wrong it was going?

I say, if the locals really don't want the trials, OK. They deserved that choice.
03-05-2010, 03:52 PM   #6
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My biggest fear was one or all of these guys representing themselves in a civilian court. All it would take would be a motion of discovery and access to a fax machine. We would literally be handing over a great deal of information to our enemies about our intelligence programs set up to evade future terrorist plots. A military trial caps a lot of these potential problems.
03-05-2010, 03:57 PM   #7
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I don't really care what Obama does or doesn't do.....no matter how bad he gets he will never outbungle Jesus George Bush......although he is trying his best at it. When we have another 4500 dead young Soldiers in Iraq, and the entire world hates him, you guys get back with me...I'll know that he is catching up.
Regards!

03-05-2010, 04:45 PM   #8
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QuoteQuote:
I don't really care what Obama does or doesn't do.....
So if he vetoed his own health care bill wouldn't get you fired up? Had a picture of him taken pouring a gallon of antifreeze in the reflection pool? Changed the Presidental March to R. Kelly's "Bump N Grind"?
03-05-2010, 04:50 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Das Boot Quote
So if he vetoed his own health care bill wouldn't get you fired up? Had a picture of him taken pouring a gallon of antifreeze in the reflection pool? Changed the Presidental March to R. Kelly's "Bump N Grind"?
Interesting 'ifs' ...you have made up.
03-05-2010, 04:59 PM   #10
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QuoteQuote:
Interesting 'ifs' ...you have made up.
I've been slowly losing my mind over the past nine days. It's just me and a 7 month old baby and I think he's getting tired of seeing me. This is my only means to talk with grown ups... well... The wife and 4 year old will be back Sunday night. I've only been able to talk to her once since she left (can't wait to see those roaming charges) and it's been very very lonely. Who would have thought?

Last edited by Das Boot; 03-05-2010 at 05:07 PM.
03-06-2010, 07:39 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Das Boot Quote
This is my only means to talk with grown ups... well...
LOL!!! Here???
03-06-2010, 08:45 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
However, they will all be convicted regardless so why not do it in a civilian court where they are not afforded the honor of being considered "soldiers" rather than the scum criminals that they are.

Mike
I second that motion.....
To be "fair and just" the law must be consistent...
Since we actually have no consistency of law in the US... poor vs rich crooks..
it's pointless to argue...
03-06-2010, 09:39 AM   #13
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The city of New York said it would have trouble assuring security. Plus of course, the cost of said security.
Just another Bush blunder Obama got stuck with.
These so called people should have been tried already.
Bush always was slow on justice.
03-06-2010, 10:03 PM   #14
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NY State is teetering on bankruptcy so the cost of security is a real issue. I do agree that these guys should have been tried years ago. If these trials end up in civilian courts, their lawyers will probably not want them tried in NY, claiming that a fair trial would be impossible. That may hold true for any civilian jury in the US. The events of 9/11 are not forgotten. A military tribunal might provide a more "fair trial". I don't like the idea of treating them as "military cobatants" either. They are murderers and criminals and should be hunted down and treated as such.
03-07-2010, 12:20 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by shooz Quote
The city of New York said it would have trouble assuring security. Plus of course, the cost of said security.
Just another Bush blunder Obama got stuck with.
These so called people should have been tried already.
Bush always was slow on justice.



Jesus George was not only slow, he didn't even recognize the concept of justice. There was no excuse to let this linger on for years, when it could have and should have been completed within a year of capture at the outside edge of time. He held on without trial so he would get more time to torture and mutilate for the benefit of his sicko buddies, and to avoid exposing all the innocent captives he held for so long before their eventual release. Of course, he did release many that were very guilty too......including the recent backers of the attempted bomber of another Jumbo Jet. All in all, Jesus George was just a first class bungler....there is no way to deny it. The landscape of America is littered with reminders of his failures. Right wing fruitloops try to pin these massive mistakes on Obama, just like they did the recent airline bomber...that was a direct product of Jesus Georges release of a top Al-Qaeda bomb maker back to Yemen. You find something that Jesus George could screw up in his eight years of terror....and you will find that he did.
Right wingers are regretful for these mistakes and blunders, and now want to make up for it by asking for a second chance....for their girl Sarah to make it all right. Since she is even dumber than George, it should be very interesting.......
Regards!
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