Damn You Australians! Stop Hurting Us!

GoremanX · 03-11-2010, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by flyer

Unfortunately, you don't have a monopoly on that type of behaviour. There are a$$ holes everywhere.

I think some places are worse than others. I love to pass judgment over different regions based on anecdotal evidence, it gives me a false sense of moral superiority.

I love false senses, they're so comforting.

Unfortunately, I have no first-hand experience with Australia, I've never been there. All the Australians I know are damn fine people.

**Mallee Boy** · 03-11-2010, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by fractal

Don't dare blame the parents!

Hi Carl,
Yes, you make a valid statement.

The whole issue is so sad and so un-necessary...but where does it start and stop ?
The amount of violence that is on display in such graphic detail via video / computer game animation is mind numbing...and I have seen a fraction of it...I walked away not wanting to see more.

But who to blame? the writers/creators of this crap or the parents for allowing their children to watch it or the inventors of media communications that make it possible......where do you stop?

If the parents try and discipline the kids, the kids take off/ignore/do as they please because they know govt authorities will champion their cause (enter RML) over that of the parents...so the parents authority is eroded and weakened...and with it respect for authority in general.

I would hate to be a young parent today.

So I guess, following my own arguement I don't necessarily "blame" the parents, but neither do I release them from the their responsibility either...in fact my cross hairs settle firmly on govt policy and hand wringer policies that undermine parents....come on RML ..in you come.

Cheers
Grant

GoremanX · 03-11-2010, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Mallee Boy

But who to blame? the writers/creators of this crap or the parents for allowing their children to watch it or the inventors of media communications that make it possible......where do you stop?

I grew up with video games, it was awesome. We didn't have Mafia, gangland and rape simulators back then, but we did have all those things in movies. Are video games more influential because people get to participate in the violence rather than just watching it? It's debatable.

I still play video games regularly, but I tend to stick to the old-school stuff.

Originally posted by Mallee Boy

If the parents try and discipline the kids, the kids take off/ignore/do as they please because they know govt authorities will champion their cause (enter RML) over that of the parents...so the parents authority is eroded and weakened...and with it respect for authority in general.

That sounds a bit like an excuse. It's true that not all influences on a kid's life are within the control of the parent, but most of them are. If you can raise your kid to respect you and others, they tend to end up acting respectful themselves. When your kid looks up to you rather than seeing you as an obstacle, great things happen. Unfortunately, this requires a level of commitment that very few parents are willing to provide these days. Too many parents offload the raising of their kids to outside sources, whether that's hired help or the media. That mutual bond of respect never gets formed. And then some guy in a wheelchair in Australia gets beat senseless with pieces of his own wheelchair.

There's an argument to be made for the hectic lifestyle required nowadays to make enough money to keep a family fed, and so on, and so forth. But that doesn't make the end result any less unfortunate.

**Mallee Boy** · 03-11-2010, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by GoremanX

That sounds a bit like an excuse. It

Absolutely. But it happens when some parents dont take on the responsibility....and I say some because I acknowledge a lot of parents do a great job in trying circumstances but I also believe they dont get the support they deserve.

As you (& others) have said there are no easy or simple answers... but we need to keep looking.
Cheers

GoremanX · 03-11-2010, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Mallee Boy

As you (& others) have said there are no easy or simple answers... but we need to keep looking.

Oh I've got an easy answer... dogs! If you can commit to properly training a dog, there's a good chance you can commit to raising a child. On the other hand, if every dog you own is a yapping nightmare that you're constantly making excuses for (oh but he's so CUTE!), perhaps raising a kid isn't such a bright idea.

Of course, if you love your dog more than your child, there's a whole 'nother problem involved...

Gillies · 03-11-2010, 05:31 PM

The teachers at a school in Queensland Australia tried to point out the root and cause of this world wide 'free world' problem by laying blame where it truly belongs.
Unfortunately it didn't go over well.
Watch Hilarious School Answering Machine Video | Break.com

goddo31 · 03-11-2010, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by flyer

Unfortunately, you don't have a monopoly on that type of behaviour. There are a$$ holes everywhere.

Yeah, I realise this. But I guess it hits upon a sore point, and reminds me of other, related acts that I fear are more unique to Australia. But that's a whole new thread.

I also grew up with video games, including quite a few graphic, wrong, violent ones. I didn't often play those type of games, but at least saw many of them. Many of my friends are the same.

The point about some parents not taking responsibility is probably a good point. In general, all it takes is a visit to a busy public location here to see parents not looking or not caring what their kids do.

fractal · 03-12-2010, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by GoremanX

Oh I've got an easy answer... dogs! If you can commit to properly training a dog, there's a good chance you can commit to raising a child. On the other hand, if every dog you own is a yapping nightmare that you're constantly making excuses for (oh but he's so CUTE!), perhaps raising a kid isn't such a bright idea.

You’ve hit the nail on the head right there. I'm taking this idea to the next level and suggesting problem children could have a type of 'dog whisperer' assigned to them. For a fee of course.

If only we had more Cesar Millans in the world.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/dog-whisperer

Originally posted by goddo31

Yeah, I realise this. But I guess it hits upon a sore point, and reminds me of other, related acts that I fear are more unique to Australia.

I thought the same thing, but given the fact we live in Australia, we are going to hear about it more. I will say, after spending a year in China, the growing disrespect in this nation seems immense though.

lithos · 03-13-2010, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by Gillies

The teachers at a school in Queensland Australia tried to point out the root and cause of this world wide 'free world' problem by laying blame where it truly belongs.
Unfortunately it didn't go over well.
Watch Hilarious School Answering Machine Video | Break.com

Whoever wrote the subtitles for that might have been wise to go to school himself.

Too bad it's old, and bullshit.

wjt · 03-13-2010, 05:18 PM

sorry to op for the tangent. But Mallee i have to strongly disagree, sure there is violence and gore etc in film and movies, and the boundaries keep getting pushed, but thats what the rating system is for (australia not having R ratings for games is a whole other kettle of fish) and responsible monitoring by parents of content.
I grew up playing games and watching violent movies, and still do when time permits, yet i never once thought it was acceptable to harm another person, and I am pretty sure i am not alone there. I guarantee this behaviour occurred before games and violent movies, we just hear about it now with instant global media. I really hate it when people hear bashing/shooting etc and instantly link it with gaming.
The problem in my opinion is legal system leniency, there is little fear of repercussions for ones actions. Poor form by the 2 idiots who spawned the debate, unfortunately they will get a token slap on the wrists and be sent on their way

fractal · 03-14-2010, 04:22 AM

Games are different now days.

In regards to ruthless, violent youths, this has been discussed before. RML made a good point that bullying in the school place is a big one. I believe this.

I've always played violent games and never felt the need to inflict random harm upon another human, however, i'm quite partial to racing games & currently sit on a suspended licence for speeding.

**ChrisPlatt** · 03-14-2010, 12:53 PM

From the Flight of The Conchords HBO series "Drive By" episode (Season 1):

Youtube video: Flippin' the bird at the Australian Embassy

Chris

**Mallee Boy** · 03-14-2010, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by mibane

sorry to op for the tangent. But Mallee i have to strongly disagree, sure there is violence and gore etc in film and movies, and the boundaries keep getting pushed, but thats what the rating system is for (australia not having R ratings for games is a whole other kettle of fish) and responsible monitoring by parents of content.
I grew up playing games and watching violent movies, and still do when time permits, yet i never once thought it was acceptable to harm another person, and I am pretty sure i am not alone there. I guarantee this behaviour occurred before games and violent movies, we just hear about it now with instant global media. I really hate it when people hear bashing/shooting etc and instantly link it with gaming.
The problem in my opinion is legal system leniency, there is little fear of repercussions for ones actions. Poor form by the 2 idiots who spawned the debate, unfortunately they will get a token slap on the wrists and be sent on their way

Hey mate....its a democracy....disagree to your hearts content.

My point is that our kids are exposed to so much violence, and violence portrayed in graphic detail, that I believe it de-sensitizes them to violence. Add into the mix "family" situations that encourage or practice the violence and is it any wonder that we have what we have. Then throw in the legal system that thrives on crime and we do it all over again.

Its no different to the acknowledgement by the magazine editor who said that now she has daughters of her own she thinks "raunchy" articles aimed at young girls is wrong....this comes after she has made her fortune out of producing exactly those magazines for the last decade or so.

Sheer hypocrisy....but we humans lap it up every time so we only have ourselves to blame at the end of the day.

Fl_Gulfer · 03-17-2010, 10:11 AM

They should just change the laws so that when people are busted doing violent crimes (Caught in the act) they should be taken outback of the courthouse and shot. Lets see how many violent crimes there is after that happens a few times.

fractal · 03-18-2010, 02:07 AM

Originally posted by Fl_Gulfer

They should just change the laws so that when people are busted doing violent crimes (Caught in the act) they should be taken outback of the courthouse and shot. Lets see how many violent crimes there is after that happens a few times.

Yes, because that makes so much sense.

Violent crimes won't stop. And in turn neither would your suggested executions, thus creating more violence.

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03-11-2010, 01:01 PM	#16
GoremanX Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Georgia, VT Photos: Albums Posts: 1,657 Original Poster	Originally posted by flyer Unfortunately, you don't have a monopoly on that type of behaviour. There are a$$ holes everywhere. I think some places are worse than others. I love to pass judgment over different regions based on anecdotal evidence, it gives me a false sense of moral superiority. I love false senses, they're so comforting. Unfortunately, I have no first-hand experience with Australia, I've never been there. All the Australians I know are damn fine people.

03-11-2010, 02:23 PM	#17
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904	Originally posted by fractal Don't dare blame the parents! Hi Carl, Yes, you make a valid statement. The whole issue is so sad and so un-necessary...but where does it start and stop ? The amount of violence that is on display in such graphic detail via video / computer game animation is mind numbing...and I have seen a fraction of it...I walked away not wanting to see more. But who to blame? the writers/creators of this crap or the parents for allowing their children to watch it or the inventors of media communications that make it possible......where do you stop? If the parents try and discipline the kids, the kids take off/ignore/do as they please because they know govt authorities will champion their cause (enter RML) over that of the parents...so the parents authority is eroded and weakened...and with it respect for authority in general. I would hate to be a young parent today. So I guess, following my own arguement I don't necessarily "blame" the parents, but neither do I release them from the their responsibility either...in fact my cross hairs settle firmly on govt policy and hand wringer policies that undermine parents....come on RML ..in you come. Cheers Grant

03-11-2010, 02:34 PM	#18
GoremanX Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Georgia, VT Photos: Albums Posts: 1,657 Original Poster	Originally posted by Mallee Boy But who to blame? the writers/creators of this crap or the parents for allowing their children to watch it or the inventors of media communications that make it possible......where do you stop? I grew up with video games, it was awesome. We didn't have Mafia, gangland and rape simulators back then, but we did have all those things in movies. Are video games more influential because people get to participate in the violence rather than just watching it? It's debatable. I still play video games regularly, but I tend to stick to the old-school stuff. Originally posted by Mallee Boy If the parents try and discipline the kids, the kids take off/ignore/do as they please because they know govt authorities will champion their cause (enter RML) over that of the parents...so the parents authority is eroded and weakened...and with it respect for authority in general. That sounds a bit like an excuse. It's true that not all influences on a kid's life are within the control of the parent, but most of them are. If you can raise your kid to respect you and others, they tend to end up acting respectful themselves. When your kid looks up to you rather than seeing you as an obstacle, great things happen. Unfortunately, this requires a level of commitment that very few parents are willing to provide these days. Too many parents offload the raising of their kids to outside sources, whether that's hired help or the media. That mutual bond of respect never gets formed. And then some guy in a wheelchair in Australia gets beat senseless with pieces of his own wheelchair. There's an argument to be made for the hectic lifestyle required nowadays to make enough money to keep a family fed, and so on, and so forth. But that doesn't make the end result any less unfortunate.

03-11-2010, 02:44 PM	#19
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904	Originally posted by GoremanX That sounds a bit like an excuse. It Absolutely. But it happens when some parents dont take on the responsibility....and I say some because I acknowledge a lot of parents do a great job in trying circumstances but I also believe they dont get the support they deserve. As you (& others) have said there are no easy or simple answers... but we need to keep looking. Cheers

03-11-2010, 02:56 PM	#20
GoremanX Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Georgia, VT Photos: Albums Posts: 1,657 Original Poster	Originally posted by Mallee Boy As you (& others) have said there are no easy or simple answers... but we need to keep looking. Oh I've got an easy answer... dogs! If you can commit to properly training a dog, there's a good chance you can commit to raising a child. On the other hand, if every dog you own is a yapping nightmare that you're constantly making excuses for (oh but he's so CUTE!), perhaps raising a kid isn't such a bright idea. Of course, if you love your dog more than your child, there's a whole 'nother problem involved...

03-11-2010, 05:31 PM	#21
Gillies Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery Posts: 50	The teachers at a school in Queensland Australia tried to point out the root and cause of this world wide 'free world' problem by laying blame where it truly belongs. Unfortunately it didn't go over well. Watch Hilarious School Answering Machine Video \| Break.com

03-11-2010, 06:56 PM	#22
goddo31 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,576	Originally posted by flyer Unfortunately, you don't have a monopoly on that type of behaviour. There are a$$ holes everywhere. Yeah, I realise this. But I guess it hits upon a sore point, and reminds me of other, related acts that I fear are more unique to Australia. But that's a whole new thread. I also grew up with video games, including quite a few graphic, wrong, violent ones. I didn't often play those type of games, but at least saw many of them. Many of my friends are the same. The point about some parents not taking responsibility is probably a good point. In general, all it takes is a visit to a busy public location here to see parents not looking or not caring what their kids do.

03-12-2010, 10:18 PM	#23
fractal Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,547	Originally posted by GoremanX Oh I've got an easy answer... dogs! If you can commit to properly training a dog, there's a good chance you can commit to raising a child. On the other hand, if every dog you own is a yapping nightmare that you're constantly making excuses for (oh but he's so CUTE!), perhaps raising a kid isn't such a bright idea. You’ve hit the nail on the head right there. I'm taking this idea to the next level and suggesting problem children could have a type of 'dog whisperer' assigned to them. For a fee of course. If only we had more Cesar Millans in the world. http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/dog-whisperer Originally posted by goddo31 Yeah, I realise this. But I guess it hits upon a sore point, and reminds me of other, related acts that I fear are more unique to Australia. I thought the same thing, but given the fact we live in Australia, we are going to hear about it more. I will say, after spending a year in China, the growing disrespect in this nation seems immense though.

03-13-2010, 06:19 AM	#24
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Originally posted by Gillies The teachers at a school in Queensland Australia tried to point out the root and cause of this world wide 'free world' problem by laying blame where it truly belongs. Unfortunately it didn't go over well. Watch Hilarious School Answering Machine Video \| Break.com Whoever wrote the subtitles for that might have been wise to go to school himself. Too bad it's old, and bullshit.

03-13-2010, 05:18 PM	#25
wjt Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Perth Photos: Albums Posts: 371	sorry to op for the tangent. But Mallee i have to strongly disagree, sure there is violence and gore etc in film and movies, and the boundaries keep getting pushed, but thats what the rating system is for (australia not having R ratings for games is a whole other kettle of fish) and responsible monitoring by parents of content. I grew up playing games and watching violent movies, and still do when time permits, yet i never once thought it was acceptable to harm another person, and I am pretty sure i am not alone there. I guarantee this behaviour occurred before games and violent movies, we just hear about it now with instant global media. I really hate it when people hear bashing/shooting etc and instantly link it with gaming. The problem in my opinion is legal system leniency, there is little fear of repercussions for ones actions. Poor form by the 2 idiots who spawned the debate, unfortunately they will get a token slap on the wrists and be sent on their way

03-14-2010, 04:22 AM	#26
fractal Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,547	Games are different now days. In regards to ruthless, violent youths, this has been discussed before. RML made a good point that bullying in the school place is a big one. I believe this. I've always played violent games and never felt the need to inflict random harm upon another human, however, i'm quite partial to racing games & currently sit on a suspended licence for speeding.

03-14-2010, 12:53 PM	#27
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,694	From the Flight of The Conchords HBO series "Drive By" episode (Season 1): Youtube video: Flippin' the bird at the Australian Embassy Chris

03-14-2010, 02:09 PM	#28
Mallee Boy Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,904	Originally posted by mibane sorry to op for the tangent. But Mallee i have to strongly disagree, sure there is violence and gore etc in film and movies, and the boundaries keep getting pushed, but thats what the rating system is for (australia not having R ratings for games is a whole other kettle of fish) and responsible monitoring by parents of content. I grew up playing games and watching violent movies, and still do when time permits, yet i never once thought it was acceptable to harm another person, and I am pretty sure i am not alone there. I guarantee this behaviour occurred before games and violent movies, we just hear about it now with instant global media. I really hate it when people hear bashing/shooting etc and instantly link it with gaming. The problem in my opinion is legal system leniency, there is little fear of repercussions for ones actions. Poor form by the 2 idiots who spawned the debate, unfortunately they will get a token slap on the wrists and be sent on their way Hey mate....its a democracy....disagree to your hearts content. My point is that our kids are exposed to so much violence, and violence portrayed in graphic detail, that I believe it de-sensitizes them to violence. Add into the mix "family" situations that encourage or practice the violence and is it any wonder that we have what we have. Then throw in the legal system that thrives on crime and we do it all over again. Its no different to the acknowledgement by the magazine editor who said that now she has daughters of her own she thinks "raunchy" articles aimed at young girls is wrong....this comes after she has made her fortune out of producing exactly those magazines for the last decade or so. Sheer hypocrisy....but we humans lap it up every time so we only have ourselves to blame at the end of the day.

03-17-2010, 10:11 AM	#29
Fl_Gulfer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Gulfer Photos: Albums Posts: 3,054	They should just change the laws so that when people are busted doing violent crimes (Caught in the act) they should be taken outback of the courthouse and shot. Lets see how many violent crimes there is after that happens a few times.

03-18-2010, 02:07 AM	#30
fractal Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,547	Originally posted by Fl_Gulfer They should just change the laws so that when people are busted doing violent crimes (Caught in the act) they should be taken outback of the courthouse and shot. Lets see how many violent crimes there is after that happens a few times. Yes, because that makes so much sense. Violent crimes won't stop. And in turn neither would your suggested executions, thus creating more violence.