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03-14-2010, 10:38 AM   #1
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A small essay about science and evolution

Science is the continuous attempt to refine our theoretical model of the world around us. This model will probably never be perfect, but it is what allows us to interact with the world in more predictable ways. And it does get better all the time.

A scientific theory is simply a theoretical model proposed for explaining some phenomena. Such a model may be wrong, but in that case it simply won't survive scrutiny. Because, to survive, it has to be able to explain something or to enable us to build useful things based on it. In biblical terms, it has to bear good fruits. A scientific theory useful only to itself becomes an independent part of the scientific body of knowledge and withers away.

Without science, we are not able to produce better tools or better weapons. In evolutionary terms, science is one of the selection criteria that determines the survival of a society. It always was this way.

Evolution is a successful scientific theory. It provides a very useful tool for understanding how changes take place in species, societies, and even ideas (a theory that can be applied to theories). What evolution does is to explain the mechanism by which some features survive and get better and others disappear, leading to specialization of the species. That mechanism can be seen at work in many more ways than one. There are few theories as fundamental to understanding the world for what it is, as evolution is.

And the mechanism of evolution works. Here's the simplest example: genetic algorithms in computer science. A genetic algorithm is evolution in a nutshell. A genetic algorithm is used to search for an optimal solution to a problem. The basic ideas are simple: you start with a random population of solutions and then you combine pairs to form new solutions, all the while applying a selection criteria to keep only the best solutions, so that the population size remains constant. An interesting aspect is that the "inbreeding" that happens during combinations of solutions can lead to stagnation around a local optimal solution and prevent the algorithm from finding the global optimum, so mutations are introduced in the combinations, to prevent that from happening. After a number of such generations of solutions, you can stop this evolution and pick the best solution in the population - that will be optimal or very close to it. So, here we have an example of evolutionary mechanism harnessed by man for solving practical problems. Anyone can read a book or take a few computer science coursed and see these ideas work.

It works.

03-14-2010, 10:48 AM   #2
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Well, a lot of nice words there to explain what is supposed to be a simple proposition that we should all recognize as "the way it is". My favorite part "(a theory that can be applied to theories)" Now I admit to a little skepticism when you need a theory to explain your theory.....but I'm sure it all works out. Just like the dead lizard that was the missing link.....then wasn't! Was he just a theory to the theory, or just another sack of garbage that stunk up the place before it could be marketed to other pointy headed idiots?
Regards!
03-14-2010, 10:52 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Well, a lot of nice words there to explain what is supposed to be a simple proposition that we should all recognize as "the way it is". My favorite part "(a theory that can be applied to theories)" Now I admit to a little skepticism when you need a theory to explain your theory.....but I'm sure it all works out. Just like the dead lizard that was the missing link.....then wasn't! Was he just a theory to the theory, or just another sack of garbage that stunk up the place before it could be marketed to other pointy headed idiots?
Regards!
Well, I noticed that what I write and what you read are very different. It's as if you are having a conversation with myself all by yourself. So, don't let anything I say interrupt that - in fact, I know you won't.
03-14-2010, 11:11 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Well, I noticed that what I write and what you read are very different. It's as if you are having a conversation with myself all by yourself. So, don't let anything I say interrupt that - in fact, I know you won't.
Finally, you got something right! I was beginning to wonder if you ever would! Now if you can just tell me about that lizard...and Global Warming....I will be as enlightened as you....think you are.
Regards!

03-14-2010, 12:43 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Well, I noticed that what I write and what you read are very different. It's as if you are having a conversation with myself all by yourself. So, don't let anything I say interrupt that - in fact, I know you won't.

Now you know how *I* feel.
03-14-2010, 12:59 PM   #6
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Yep, evolution. Remember when all the evidence pointed to the world being flat? Yet the Bible even said that it was not flat but actually an orb. Remember when all the evidence pointed to the earth being the center of the solar system?
03-14-2010, 03:18 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Now you know how *I* feel.
Oh, I never dared to presume that I was special in the eyes of the Rupert.
03-14-2010, 05:37 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Oh, I never dared to presume that I was special in the eyes of the Rupert.


Oh, you are "special", and will be even more so when you try to tell me about that lizard thingy and how we caused the last Ice Age...or the one before that....or the one before that.......We didn't even have old Fred Flintstone....but we were the cause.......right? You put all your confidence in science, they will always have a theory as to why the theory they did have was not in line with the one they have today. If that gives you confidence, and apparently it does, it certainly qualifies you for "Special".
Regards!

03-14-2010, 11:05 PM   #9
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Tell me something LC. Where did matter come from?
03-14-2010, 11:11 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
Tell me something LC. Where did matter come from?
The same place God came from.
03-14-2010, 11:12 PM   #11
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Better yet, where did it doesn't matter come from?
03-14-2010, 11:17 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
The same place God came from.
And where was that?
03-14-2010, 11:39 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
And where was that?
That's a silly childish infinite regress and I think you know that.

Because I believe you know that and, in spite of knowing this, you seriously presented such a question to the forum I have lost all respect for your opinions.

Last edited by wildman; 03-15-2010 at 12:16 AM.
03-14-2010, 11:39 PM   #14
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And so it goes on...

There's little point going on participating in loaded arguments by agenda-driven hard-lined logic fanatics seeking to decipher the origin of the world by mathematical deduction.

There is more evidence (yes, scientific) against the idea of evolutionary and trusty Big-Bang theories than there is for them: http://creation.com/article/3830 - Refuting Evolution chapter 2: Variation and natural selection versus evolution

Enjoy.
03-15-2010, 01:15 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
There's little point going on participating in loaded arguments by agenda-driven hard-lined logic fanatics seeking to decipher the origin of the world by mathematical deduction.
And that's how the logical conclusion (of not participating in loaded arguments) is ignored. This must be theological. I think I'm getting the hang of it. If it doesn't make any sense, then it makes sense. Uhm, no, I still don't get it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
There is more evidence (yes, scientific) against the idea of evolutionary and trusty Big-Bang theories than there is for them: Refuting Evolution chapter 1: Evolution & creation, science & religion, facts & bias - Refuting Evolution chapter 2: Variation and natural selection versus evolution
Let us know when Dr. Jonathan Sarfati gets this "scientific" evidence published elsewhere than on creation.com - for example, in an actual scientific peer-reviewed journal. Because, you see, science is not about some guy publishing a paper on the site of agenda-driven hard-lined theologic fanatics. Look at what papers Dr. Sarfati did get published - none have anything to do with debunking evolution - it's not like his actual scientific contributions are being ignored - this is just not one of them.
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