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03-19-2010, 03:15 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoremanX Quote
It's only since I got headbutted in the face that it's become a major nuisance again. I wonder if I'm suffering from some physical or psychological issue without being aware of it. I hope it's physical and it'll heal soon.
Maybe it is psychological. I'd suggest seeing your doctor Frank.

03-19-2010, 03:26 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by fractal Quote
Have you tried any natural remedies such as teas? Is there anthing that you could be doing that is disturbing your sleep, such as overly generous amounts of caffeine or alcohol?
Over the years I've tried every natural remedy I've ever heard of, including teas. I even tried some pharmaceutical solutions as a drastic measure, but that had some nasty results and I don't want to go there again. I've been on the wagon for 14 years (don't ask, it's not pretty), and I almost never have any caffeine. Maybe one coffee a week, at most.

Sometimes I just can't shut my mind off. I envy my wife's ability to just turn off her brain and fall asleep within minutes. I've never been able to do that.

It's official now, I was supposed to be up 24 minutes ago and I never slept. This is going to be one FINE day...
03-19-2010, 03:36 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by fractal Quote
Maybe it is psychological. I'd suggest seeing your doctor Frank.
My wife may be an O.D. (as I'm very fond of bragging about), but the truth is, I despise doctors. I'm very mule-headed in this regard, every doctor I've ever seen had a bad habit of reaching for the prescription pad to try and solve the simplest things. I don't blame them, I think most experienced doctors have given up trying to help people find the root cause of problems. No-one wants to change anything in their lifestyle, they just want problems fixed immediately with no fuss, and prescriptions are the ideal solution for that. But me, I resent the practice. So even though I can walk to any clinic or hospital and be seen by any doctor absolutely free of charge, I try to avoid that option like the plague.

Besides, my nose is almost completely healed now. If things don't get better within a week or so, I may change my mind about seeing a doctor.
03-19-2010, 04:11 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoremanX Quote
Sometimes I just can't shut my mind off. I envy my wife's ability to just turn off her brain and fall asleep within minutes. I've never been able to do that.
I once was in a Kaiser Medical program of non-chemical intervention for certain problems (which are nobody's business), which program included meditation training. Nothing mystical, just some simple stuff.

Lay down, close eyes, concentrate in turn on every segment of your body. Toes to fingertips, everything in-between. Slowly. Pace yourself. Think of nothing else. Don't move. Every muscle: feel it, relax it, be aware of it. Then, on to the next bit. (It's the same basic principle as telling a rosary.)

And: Put 'reality' aside. All your plans and problems and pains, whatever is grinding at you, obsessing you -- pack it up. Literally. Glance briefly at each item, mentally put it in a box, put that box on a shelf. You can open those tomorrow. You'll be going elsewhere now.

So: Think of someplace calm. A pond, meadow, beach, park, mountain, some quiet place you can visualize and put yourself into. Your favorite space; go there. Feel it, smell it, see it. Relax in it. Be very still. (This is a form of self-hypnosis.)

Now: Concentrate on one. Not one of anything; just one. One fills you, surrounds you, is you. Not a spirit, not a force, not a reason, not a theology; just one. After you've been one for awhile, you might go on to two; or you might stay at one. One is OK. (This is sort of like concentrating on OM.)

Those are some of the... tricks? exercises? techniques? ...that I learned. They work for me when I'm not too groggy, when I remind myself to use them. I nearly always do the go-someplace-calm thing -- for me, it's sitting under a conifer by an alpine lake. Each night, instead of being in San Francisco or Zacatecas or Tulsa or Guatemala City or wherever my body is parked, I'm at that lake. It's comfy.

Like any tricks, exercises, techniques, these take practice. Do them over and over. It might help to take some secular (or religious, if that's your trip) meditation-relaxation-stillness classes. Check it out.

03-19-2010, 08:01 AM   #20
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That's very good practice, Rico, that's actually very similar to some practices I've done for a long time.

Goreman, I wonder if you caught the bit I wrote for you on that thing about the incident with your nose: there could very well be some bound-up energy from the incident that's finding its way into your sleep troubles: if you've been prone to them before, that's a likely spot for them to turn up. Remember it doesn't have to be what the rational mind calls a big trauma for your body and subconscious to think it's something you 'need' to stay up for.

Some meditation like that can be pretty helpful, ...just be patient with it. The trick's kind of to not be so goal-oriented about 'getting to sleep' while doing it.

Me, I tend to the nocturnal, at least seasonally: it seems all other factors aside, what's left of my Circadian rhythm just drifts throughout the year. The modern world's not really designed around it, but I figure at least some of us ought to be cut out for the night watch.

I heard a sleep expert say that ninety percent of insomnia stems from *not going to bed.* Which may not count for much with actual disruptions, but some of us are accustomed to being ready to sleep before we do, then end up overtaxing ourselves.

Chamomile tea, (They make some blends with the likes of catnip, hops, and such in there, too) can be pretty helpful to a lot of folks: you could have some of that right before bed, (Don't have anything else afterwards, though, particularly caffeine, sugar, or alcohol.

Getting trench-naps during the day can help you, too, believe it or not: keep em to intervals of twenty minutes: it'll give the body and mind a chance to get some reserves back after the chronic sleeplessness.
03-19-2010, 08:29 AM   #21
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I haven't found a magic solution. I work evening shifts, 3:00 -11:30 with a 30+ mile commute each way. I have difficulty falling asleep and when I do, it's a max of 5 hrs. It's less than a 50-50 chance I will get back to sleep. I cut back on coffee which helped a little and I quit smoking 3 years ago. I still have issues this time of year for some reason. Maybe it's the angle of the sun as I wake up many days when daylight comes. It's slightly better with daylight time. I do take a daytime nap sometimes but that makes the insomnia worse because I not as tired later. I avoid medications although in allergy season I do take some Benedryl which does make me drowsy. If I am taking it a lot, that effect doesn't happen.
03-19-2010, 12:14 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Those are some of the... tricks? exercises? techniques? ...that I learned. They work for me when I'm not too groggy, when I remind myself to use them. I nearly always do the go-someplace-calm thing -- for me, it's sitting under a conifer by an alpine lake. Each night, instead of being in San Francisco or Zacatecas or Tulsa or Guatemala City or wherever my body is parked, I'm at that lake. It's comfy.
I learned this exercise a few years ago (the relaxing body parts one bit at a time thing). I perform it exactly as you describe, it's eerie. But I never took it to the next level you describe (the "one", the "om"). I'll try that tonight. Usually I just end up with a terrifically relaxed and numb body for 20+ minutes, until some tickle forms in my legs and the whole effect is ruined.

Turns out I didn't waste the day after all. I totally expected to crash and burn in the truck at the WalMart parking lot, but instead I got my 14th or 15th wind and was able to go biking. The weather was indeed terrific, and I managed a solid 18 miles. By far the best ride of the year, thanks to the lack of snow and wind. I can't believe I was able to do so much with all my photo gear on my back and studded tires still on the bike. Of course, now I'm all exhausted and feeling dizzy, but I also feel invigorated. I really needed this ride.

I got some new gear to carry my photography stuff that makes me look like a total dork but makes biking insanely easy. I'll try and take pictures of myself so I can show everyone what a complete dork I look like. All the women were giving me weird looks on the trail today. Good thing I'm already married, otherwise I'd have a real hard time getting a date.

Hopefully when I get home at 8:00pm tonight, I can fall into a deep sleep for the next 12 hours and wake up at a normal time tomorrow.

03-19-2010, 12:28 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Me, I tend to the nocturnal, at least seasonally: it seems all other factors aside, what's left of my Circadian rhythm just drifts throughout the year.
My Circadian rhythm is very fixed: 3am to 11am EDT is my ideal sleep time. Any deviation from this wrecks everything. Interestingly, when I was in Vegas last September to get married, my Circadian rhythm stayed exactly the same... midnight to 8am (which is equivalent to 3am to 11am in my Eastern time zone). Unfortunately, real life often intervenes with my Circadian rhythm because 3am to 11am is not considered "normal".

QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Chamomile tea, (They make some blends with the likes of catnip, hops, and such in there, too) can be pretty helpful to a lot of folks: you could have some of that right before bed
Yep, tried all of those, and every variation I've ever heard of. Most of the time they just make me have to pee when I'm trying to fall asleep.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Getting trench-naps during the day can help you, too, believe it or not: keep em to intervals of twenty minutes: it'll give the body and mind a chance to get some reserves back after the chronic sleeplessness.
I tried that, they tend to ruin my sleepiness when my normal sleep time comes around

I assure you, I'm not trying to be difficult. This is something I've been dealing with since high school and it's been plaguing my entire life. But I do appreciate everyone's suggestions. It gives me some ideas on what else I could try. Right now I feel like I could sleep for 12 hours straight. I'm just waiting for my wife to be done work so we can go home.
03-19-2010, 02:57 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoremanX Quote
(on naps)
I tried that, they tend to ruin my sleepiness when my normal sleep time comes around

I assure you, I'm not trying to be difficult. This is something I've been dealing with since high school and it's been plaguing my entire life. But I do appreciate everyone's suggestions. It gives me some ideas on what else I could try. Right now I feel like I could sleep for 12 hours straight. I'm just waiting for my wife to be done work so we can go home.
Don't worry, it's cool: particularly with regards to napping, it *will* oft as not mess with you, but it does make you better able to deal with the vagaries of an already-messed-up cycle better than not-napping.

All that aside, it actually seemed pretty clear that your brush with violence back there bothered you. This is very natural. Doesn't mean you mighn't have left some of your self, there, call it part of your attention. Doesn't have to make sense or be judged, it's just quite possibly there.

To the more 'animal' parts of your being, that doesn't matter. Those parts also don't care why or how the experience is released, so you can do that in whatever manner you please, you just can't think or define it away. All you need to do is be present, walk through what has gotten hung-up, and well, let go of what you 'should' be doing. That's not going anywhere. Just do and feel and breathe what's 'next.' No struggle. Just be present.
Feel 'gravity.' You aren't going anywhere.

People tend to leave parts of themselves all over place and time, so, just feel and breathe what's 'home' at any given moment. That's all you need to be doing just then, the rest can happen. Wandering bits of soul tend to spring right back given half a chance, so that's all you need to do most of the time.
Herbs won't force the issue, they just do what they do, it can be helpful.
03-19-2010, 04:28 PM   #25
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I can feel as tired as possible some nights and as soon as I go to bed I wake right up. I'm usually in bed around midnight, fall asleep around 2 and have to be up at 7:30 ish. My Alarm clock is set for 7 and it is usually 8am after hitting the snooze button 6 times before I can force myself out of bed.

Rarely do I get a restful night sleep. I can function fairly well during the day but I'm sure it is having a big impact on my brain. My memory is usually terrible and my thinking is pretty sluggish.

It would be nice to have a good night sleep one of these days.
03-19-2010, 06:35 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoremanX Quote
I can't sleep. It's been the bane of my existence for decades, but it's been killing me slowly these past 2 weeks. I need to be up at 6am, it's now 2am, and I can't get to sleep. I think I've gotten all of 8 hours of sleep this last week, none of it restful.

Anyone else deal with chronic insomnia? I've done years of research on the subject, and sleep in general, and none of it has helped me get to sleep reliably. Other than a good whack to the head, what's helped you guys sleep?
Hi Goreman,

Just read your post.

You mentioned that you have had sleep problems which eventually were nearly "under control" until this headbutting in the face.
You may well have a post concussion syndrome which has compounded the pre-existing condition.
If/when you feel like it, drop me a PM, maybe I can help and guide you to the proper "authorities" on the subject matter.
Cheers!
JP
03-19-2010, 07:22 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by GoremanX Quote
Yep, tried all of those, and every variation I've ever heard of. Most of the time they just make me have to pee when I'm trying to fall asleep.
Yeah, avoid the hippie remedies. I cannot claim any expertise on the matter, but I would be willing to bet that what you are dealing with is 100% mental. I find myself struggling to get to sleep at times--most often when I have to get up at a certain time and start counting down (7 hours left...6.5 hours left...6 hours left, shit, gotta get some sleep NOW and so on)--with a mind that doesn't like to go to sleep. I think it's caused mostly by worrying about things in life (general anxiety disorder can cause a LOT of sleep problems), but I suspect it's exacerbated by spending time on the computer or watching TV before bed. Have you tried shutting off all that stuff and spending some time reading before bedtime? That's the one thing that almost always works for me; picking up a book and spending a half hour to an hour reading something enjoyable.
03-19-2010, 07:27 PM   #28
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Try a couple of drops of lavender essential oil on your pillow Frank.

Don't listen to Pingflood, where he comes from it was too cold for hippies.
03-20-2010, 06:46 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Try a couple of drops of lavender essential oil on your pillow Frank.
That one sounds more promising than my mother's last remedy; swallow 3 drops of essential orange oil in a teaspoon of olive oil. All that one did was give me acid reflux all night. She SWORE she learned about that one at a conference and it would create a strong soporific. Whatever. At least this lavender thing doesn't involve me swallowing anything, and it would be more pleasant to smell than my own sweaty pillowcase.

As expected, I slept like a baby last night. Got home from Williston, VT, collapsed in bed, and fell asleep within an hour or so (I dozed in the truck on the way home, let my wife drive).

There's a strong possibility the issue was psychological. Of course, it's not manly to admit such things and I'm a "real man". However, I also know that I find biking extremely therapeutic, and yesterday's ride feels like it did wonders for my mental clarity. Maybe this goes back to the whole "run vs fight" instinct thing. In any case, not only did I sleep like a baby and feel well rested, I also got up 2 hours earlier than my "normal" time today so I'll hopefully be tired again tonight despite sleeping for 12 hours straight.

It's warm out again today, maybe it's about time I put those summer tires back on my bike...
03-20-2010, 09:16 AM   #30
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I shouldn't have posted in this thread yesterday. I went to bed at 1am last night (er.. this morning) and didn't fall asleep until 3. The sleep I did get was poor at best.

Was up at 7:30 to get ready for a full day of work.
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