For RatMagicLady

Green_Manelishi · 03-23-2010, 02:34 PM

Woman stabs man with Wicca dagger : News : KVII

So, was the stabber a good witch, bad witch, or simply not a witch at all?

jsherman999 · 03-23-2010, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Green_Manelishi

Woman stabs man with Wicca dagger : News : KVII

So, was the stabber a good witch, bad witch, or simply not a witch at all?

.

Bad witch.

What kind of witch would you be, Greenie?

.

Green_Manelishi · 03-23-2010, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by jsherman999

.

Bad witch.

What kind of witch would you be, Greenie?

.

Me? Why I'm not a witch at all. I'm the Green Manelishi, from Offutt AFB, Omaha, Nebraska.

Gooshin · 03-23-2010, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Green_Manelishi

Me? Why I'm not a witch at all. I'm the Green Manelishi, from Offutt AFB, Omaha, Nebraska.

So are you like a witch wannabe?

séamuis · 03-23-2010, 02:57 PM

this forum is going to shit.

Gooshin · 03-23-2010, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

this forum is going to shit.

this particular forum was born out of shit, it just devolved into a worse kind of shit..

séamuis · 03-23-2010, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Gooshin

this particular forum was born out of shit, it just devolved into a worse kind of shit..

this is true. very true.

causey · 03-23-2010, 03:23 PM

Seems to me the quality of the shit is better now. The original shit stank. (Or does its bad smell make it better?)

I asked this question in another thread: why do some people wage a veritable war on RML? One may find RML's opinions or style strange, weird, even annoying, or/and RML's writing difficult to understand, perhaps unintelligible, but are these reasons to act aggressively toward a member of the forum? (Are there any other reasons of which I'm not aware?) It's really easy to ignore what someone writes on this forum if one decides it's not worth having a conversation with that person. Given the battle scenes I have seen so far, it looks like opportunely ignoring another may yield just the minimal and essential degree of tolerance and civility we need.

About good, evil, etc.--a bit of reflection might not hurt. What if it's not as simple as making a quick distinction? Can Christians easily imagine Jesus attending a public condemnation of that female killer and shouting: "Evil, evil!"? What if it is possible to accommodate having the notion of evil with the purity of a heart that 'knows no evil'? Could you imagine the possibility that one of the dirtiest trick of Evil is that it maintains itself through thought and discourse about itself (in moralistic judgment of someone else's doings)? (And who are WE to judge?)

"Let he without sin throw the first stone." (Someone can throw stones at another fellow human being in one's mind. Bad intentions are just bad intentions even if not fulfilled in action.)

Green_Manelishi · 03-23-2010, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Gooshin

So are you like a witch wannabe?

Force Recon wannabee. The greatest compliments I've ever received were from folks who assumed I am a Marine, and from Marines who told me "You would have made a great Marine".

Damn Brit · 03-23-2010, 03:47 PM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!

I feel I can sleep safely now with people like you to protect us.

Ratmagiclady · 03-23-2010, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Green_Manelishi

Woman stabs man with Wicca dagger : News : KVII

So, was the stabber a good witch, bad witch, or simply not a witch at all?

Frankly, coming from Amarillo, home of some pretty serious anti-Pagan stuff, I doubt the story, or at least the spin. For one, all the story says is the woman claimed to have been raped and the headline concurs with the local police chief who simply said he didn't believe her.

Also, from the article: " In a MySpace blog, Sanford writes about dreams, particularly the recurring image of a pale horse, and quotes biblical passages."

This is hardly what I'd call 'Wiccan.' In Wiccan practice, the 'dagger,' (called, actually, an athame) is actually considered to be desecrated if used for any mundane purpose whatsoever, never mind to *stab* someone with, and Wiccans I know hardly make a practice of carrying them around on hikes, generally-speaking.

All of this sounds like sensationalism around someone with some mental issues... people who are having a hard time are often attracted to what's seen as 'occultey' things, ...this doesn't mean they or the police or press have a clue about Wicca. These kinds of headlines usually start with splashy allegations, the reality proves a whole lot less 'interesting,' and you don't hear about them again.

It's simply an unlikely choice of murder weapon for a Wiccan. Someone who *thinks* it's supposed to represent some 'sacrificial dagger' might leap to that assumption, or want others to, (it's a common defamation/scare tactic) but that's just not what it represents to Wiccan symbol and practice.

Could be she's telling the truth, though: in the last ditch, such things are, after all, quite pointy. We have only the sheriff's say-so on calling her a liar, ....presumably she would have been taken to the hospital and had a rape kit run, but that information is left out of what Amarillo took off the AP feed. Amarillo istelf is the home of some pretty apocalyptic 'spiritual warfare' types who have a real hate-on for Pagans and all the rest. And they certainly like to talk about 'pale horses' and read Bible quotes and claim Wiccans (and the local UU) are some kind of Satanic murderers.

Checking news feeds: we get more "Police claim:" "According to police, Sanford, who had met Leyva a week ago at a local casino, invited him to the foothills for the Wicca celebration of spring, known as Beltane."

Beltane isn't till May. The recent holiday is called Ostara. If she's Wiccan, she doesn't know her own holidays, apparently.

You would be trying to associate me with this somehow?

SteveM · 03-23-2010, 04:02 PM

So why the green frog?....and what happens when you put on a crown....?

**yucatanPentax** · 03-23-2010, 04:03 PM

Well, at the risk of (whatever), I have to agree.

Wiccan's don't normally quote Biblical passages as teh Bible is simply not all that important to them. And the "pale horse" reference sounds more like something from Revelations than the gods of mother earth.

There must be much more to this story than is in the tiny article.

I have to agree with causey, although it appears to me that RML takes pretty good care of herself in the forums.

Ratmagiclady · 03-23-2010, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by yucatanPentax

Well, at the risk of (whatever), I have to agree.

Wiccan's don't normally quote Biblical passages as teh Bible is simply not all that important to them. And the "pale horse" reference sounds more like something from Revelations than the gods of mother earth.

There must be much more to this story than is in the tiny article.

Or much less. From what I see in another article, it seems to read like someone who may have believed a bunch of disinformation about Wicca decided to try and use a few of the trappings for a little bit of a lark with someone she picked up at a casino... Someone freaked out, stabbing came down one way or another, babbles incoherently at police who believe she's 'A Wiccan Witch' but nothing else she says, press splashes story around in ways most usual stabbings don't say 'Christian stabs Christian During Lenten Observances.'

A lot of police are subjected to 'occult experts' who are Fundies running around telling them about Satanic Panic accusations of murders and ritual sacrifices that never happened, ...some metalhead kids leave some mess in the woods or someone has a freakout within a block of a Tarot deck, and they have some kind of 'Witch' or 'Voodoo' or "Satanism' flap about it till the facts come out.

But, yeah, the 'Pale Horse' is from the Christian book of Revelations. ...associated with death and the end of the world. There are a fair number of references to *white* horses in Pagan tradition, as a symbol of England and the sovereignty of the land (Still used in coronation rituals to this day, actually) but I doubt that figures anywhere in this case. Certainly the phrasing is Biblical.

Anyway, the total lack of knowledge what she's talking about seems to me just to mean someone's in way too much of a hurry to pin this on a religion, of which she doesn't even know when it's the biggest holiday. It'd be like if someone said "Christianity made me do it!" and said it was Christmas when they strangled someone at Thanksgiving with a First Communion dress. So, I don't buy it.

Quote:

I have to agree with causey, although it appears to me that RML takes pretty good care of herself in the forums.

Why, thank you. Not that I don't appreciate a little bit of a hand and all. This really is pretty silly.

Nesster · 03-23-2010, 04:35 PM

I can go to the mall and buy me a Clash t-shirt and a handful of safety pins. That doesn't make me a punk, any more than buying a gun and shooting someone makes me a right wing nut job. But put the two together and it would be a meth crazed punk skinhead shoots some guy.

03-23-2010, 02:34 PM	#1
Green_Manelishi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: On the edge ... Posts: 179	For RatMagicLady Woman stabs man with Wicca dagger : News : KVII So, was the stabber a good witch, bad witch, or simply not a witch at all?

03-23-2010, 03:23 PM	#8
causey Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Arlington, VA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,757	Seems to me the quality of the shit is better now. The original shit stank. (Or does its bad smell make it better?) I asked this question in another thread: why do some people wage a veritable war on RML? One may find RML's opinions or style strange, weird, even annoying, or/and RML's writing difficult to understand, perhaps unintelligible, but are these reasons to act aggressively toward a member of the forum? (Are there any other reasons of which I'm not aware?) It's really easy to ignore what someone writes on this forum if one decides it's not worth having a conversation with that person. Given the battle scenes I have seen so far, it looks like opportunely ignoring another may yield just the minimal and essential degree of tolerance and civility we need. About good, evil, etc.--a bit of reflection might not hurt. What if it's not as simple as making a quick distinction? Can Christians easily imagine Jesus attending a public condemnation of that female killer and shouting: "Evil, evil!"? What if it is possible to accommodate having the notion of evil with the purity of a heart that 'knows no evil'? Could you imagine the possibility that one of the dirtiest trick of Evil is that it maintains itself through thought and discourse about itself (in moralistic judgment of someone else's doings)? (And who are WE to judge?) "Let he without sin throw the first stone." (Someone can throw stones at another fellow human being in one's mind. Bad intentions are just bad intentions even if not fulfilled in action.) Last edited by causey; 03-23-2010 at 04:07 PM.

03-23-2010, 03:55 PM	#11
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Green_Manelishi Woman stabs man with Wicca dagger : News : KVII So, was the stabber a good witch, bad witch, or simply not a witch at all? Frankly, coming from Amarillo, home of some pretty serious anti-Pagan stuff, I doubt the story, or at least the spin. For one, all the story says is the woman claimed to have been raped and the headline concurs with the local police chief who simply said he didn't believe her. Also, from the article: " In a MySpace blog, Sanford writes about dreams, particularly the recurring image of a pale horse, and quotes biblical passages." This is hardly what I'd call 'Wiccan.' In Wiccan practice, the 'dagger,' (called, actually, an athame) is actually considered to be desecrated if used for any mundane purpose whatsoever, never mind to stab someone with, and Wiccans I know hardly make a practice of carrying them around on hikes, generally-speaking. All of this sounds like sensationalism around someone with some mental issues... people who are having a hard time are often attracted to what's seen as 'occultey' things, ...this doesn't mean they or the police or press have a clue about Wicca. These kinds of headlines usually start with splashy allegations, the reality proves a whole lot less 'interesting,' and you don't hear about them again. It's simply an unlikely choice of murder weapon for a Wiccan. Someone who thinks it's supposed to represent some 'sacrificial dagger' might leap to that assumption, or want others to, (it's a common defamation/scare tactic) but that's just not what it represents to Wiccan symbol and practice. Could be she's telling the truth, though: in the last ditch, such things are, after all, quite pointy. We have only the sheriff's say-so on calling her a liar, ....presumably she would have been taken to the hospital and had a rape kit run, but that information is left out of what Amarillo took off the AP feed. Amarillo istelf is the home of some pretty apocalyptic 'spiritual warfare' types who have a real hate-on for Pagans and all the rest. And they certainly like to talk about 'pale horses' and read Bible quotes and claim Wiccans (and the local UU) are some kind of Satanic murderers. Checking news feeds: we get more "Police claim:" "According to police, Sanford, who had met Leyva a week ago at a local casino, invited him to the foothills for the Wicca celebration of spring, known as Beltane." Beltane isn't till May. The recent holiday is called Ostara. If she's Wiccan, she doesn't know her own holidays, apparently. You would be trying to associate me with this somehow? Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 03-23-2010 at 04:14 PM.

03-23-2010, 04:28 PM	#14
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by yucatanPentax Well, at the risk of (whatever), I have to agree. Wiccan's don't normally quote Biblical passages as teh Bible is simply not all that important to them. And the "pale horse" reference sounds more like something from Revelations than the gods of mother earth. There must be much more to this story than is in the tiny article. Or much less. From what I see in another article, it seems to read like someone who may have believed a bunch of disinformation about Wicca decided to try and use a few of the trappings for a little bit of a lark with someone she picked up at a casino... Someone freaked out, stabbing came down one way or another, babbles incoherently at police who believe she's 'A Wiccan Witch' but nothing else she says, press splashes story around in ways most usual stabbings don't say 'Christian stabs Christian During Lenten Observances.' A lot of police are subjected to 'occult experts' who are Fundies running around telling them about Satanic Panic accusations of murders and ritual sacrifices that never happened, ...some metalhead kids leave some mess in the woods or someone has a freakout within a block of a Tarot deck, and they have some kind of 'Witch' or 'Voodoo' or "Satanism' flap about it till the facts come out. But, yeah, the 'Pale Horse' is from the Christian book of Revelations. ...associated with death and the end of the world. There are a fair number of references to white horses in Pagan tradition, as a symbol of England and the sovereignty of the land (Still used in coronation rituals to this day, actually) but I doubt that figures anywhere in this case. Certainly the phrasing is Biblical. Anyway, the total lack of knowledge what she's talking about seems to me just to mean someone's in way too much of a hurry to pin this on a religion, of which she doesn't even know when it's the biggest holiday. It'd be like if someone said "Christianity made me do it!" and said it was Christmas when they strangled someone at Thanksgiving with a First Communion dress. So, I don't buy it. Quote: I have to agree with causey, although it appears to me that RML takes pretty good care of herself in the forums. Why, thank you. Not that I don't appreciate a little bit of a hand and all. This really is pretty silly. Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 03-23-2010 at 04:51 PM.

03-23-2010, 02:38 PM	#2
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by Green_Manelishi Woman stabs man with Wicca dagger : News : KVII So, was the stabber a good witch, bad witch, or simply not a witch at all? . Bad witch. What kind of witch would you be, Greenie? .

03-23-2010, 02:43 PM	#3
Green_Manelishi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: On the edge ... Posts: 179 Original Poster	Originally posted by jsherman999 . Bad witch. What kind of witch would you be, Greenie? . Me? Why I'm not a witch at all. I'm the Green Manelishi, from Offutt AFB, Omaha, Nebraska.

03-23-2010, 02:54 PM	#4
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	Originally posted by Green_Manelishi Me? Why I'm not a witch at all. I'm the Green Manelishi, from Offutt AFB, Omaha, Nebraska. So are you like a witch wannabe?

03-23-2010, 02:57 PM	#5
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	this forum is going to shit.

03-23-2010, 02:58 PM	#6
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	Originally posted by séamuis this forum is going to shit. this particular forum was born out of shit, it just devolved into a worse kind of shit..

03-23-2010, 03:02 PM	#7
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by Gooshin this particular forum was born out of shit, it just devolved into a worse kind of shit.. this is true. very true.

03-23-2010, 03:41 PM	#9
Green_Manelishi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: On the edge ... Posts: 179 Original Poster	Originally posted by Gooshin So are you like a witch wannabe? Force Recon wannabee. The greatest compliments I've ever received were from folks who assumed I am a Marine, and from Marines who told me "You would have made a great Marine".

03-23-2010, 03:47 PM	#10
Damn Brit Guest	ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!! I feel I can sleep safely now with people like you to protect us.

03-23-2010, 04:02 PM	#12
SteveM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,294	So why the green frog?....and what happens when you put on a crown....?

03-23-2010, 04:03 PM	#13
yucatanPentax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Dallas / Yucatan Posts: 1,840	Well, at the risk of (whatever), I have to agree. Wiccan's don't normally quote Biblical passages as teh Bible is simply not all that important to them. And the "pale horse" reference sounds more like something from Revelations than the gods of mother earth. There must be much more to this story than is in the tiny article. I have to agree with causey, although it appears to me that RML takes pretty good care of herself in the forums.

03-23-2010, 04:35 PM	#15
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	I can go to the mall and buy me a Clash t-shirt and a handful of safety pins. That doesn't make me a punk, any more than buying a gun and shooting someone makes me a right wing nut job. But put the two together and it would be a meth crazed punk skinhead shoots some guy.