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04-01-2010, 10:47 PM   #1
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There Is A Line......

Some here may think that I cross the line often, or too often, or get too close......may be, just depends on your sensitivity or the thickness of your hide.

However, I am seeing more and more episodes in the "real world" where the line of human decency has been crossed....mutilated really...by some that think they have the right to be sick and perverted at the expense of innocent victims. A case in point is a story on Chris Matthews tonight (Yes, I know you guys on the right hate him, but keep listening). It concerned a father that sued a group of "Church People" for picketing his sons funeral....his son that was killed in Iraq, because the young man deserved death as God's punishment for America's tolerance of homosexuals. Here is a grieving family, burying their young son, and hearing and seeing a horde of perverts chanting that he deserved to die....and much worse. The young boy was not even gay....they do this at the funeral of any Soldier that dies in combat when the opportunity arises. Would it have mattered if he had been gay? Hell no, it wouldn't be any less vulgar.

So the father sued them.....won the first round, then lost on appeal and was ordered to pay the legal fees of the "Church People". It is now headed for the Supreme Court, and let's hope that bunch of losers can get this one right.

While we all have broad rights and can have a wide range of beliefs and opinions, even as we do on this Forum....there is a sort of sickness that has engulfed our Nation when we see this sort of activity that is so obviously out off character of the intent of our freedom of speech that we need to make our intolerance of it known . I hope I can get some bipartisan agreement here, it would make me feel better about our group and restore a little of my personal confidence in our country....not that anyone here owes me a thing....but I do think we owe it to each other....and to the father of that young man and his family, as well as all the others that have been forced to endure this atrocity.
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04-01-2010, 11:16 PM   #2
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"There Is A Line......"

This is what happens when we lose that must uniquely human and necessary quality - the ability to feel doubt.

Something we should keep in mind when posting here as well.
04-01-2010, 11:39 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
"There Is A Line......"

This is what happens when we lose that must uniquely human and necessary quality - the ability to feel doubt.

Something we should keep in mind when posting here as well.
That may explain some of it, but not all. I was watching a program the other night on gangs....a regular on some channel, I don't know which exactly. Anyhow, a gang had a targeted the sister of a rival gang for retaliation. That is bad enough, but they got the wrong girl by mistake, and a young girl that was with her. They were celebrating the murders when informed that they got the wrong party...bit still continued celebrating the murders anyhow. This sort of thing has to be way beyond the loss of doubt. At the risk of having the Ratlady obliterate this thread, I am going to call it Evil, for lack of any other explanation in my limited vocabulary.

So I am putting you down as being more than just a little offended by what happened to this young man's family...is that correct?
Best Regards!
04-02-2010, 03:34 AM   #4
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The father was also ordered to repay the $16K costs of the church's legal fees. Read somewhere yesterday that Bill O'Reily picked up the tab. Put me on the side that thinks crap like this should not happen. I would not want to be a member of a church with members like these.

04-02-2010, 04:38 AM   #5
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The celebration of violence by the young to me seems to be conditioned as acceptable behavior by violent movies and video games... We give the message that this sort of stuff is cool and there are no consequences.

Adult hate mongering is just sick. You stop looking for things you have in common and rather demonize the others - you might not be able to say this in words, and deny the words if they are said, but you don't see the others as fully human, and therefore you are excused to do anything to them, again without consequence.

The church group's behavior was evil, especially if somewhere along the chain someone or a group of some people are purposely fanning these flames for their own gain, knowing better and perhaps even being cynically hypocritical: for those people are doubly at fault, as they think of this church group (and similar) as less than human as well, to be manipulated for immediate advantage, and without consequence.

Morality and ethics are based on valuing consequences and the lives of others; we all make mistakes based on ignorance and lack of understanding, but aspire to taking responsibility of the future, and of our neigbors as our brothers. It seems there are a lot of people who do not believe in this, or the thought doesn't even occur...
04-02-2010, 06:01 AM   #6
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There is free speech.

Then there is common decency and common sense and compassion for our fellow beings.

This "church" (and I use that term very loosely) lacks all three.
04-02-2010, 06:18 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
There is free speech.

Then there is common decency and common sense and compassion for our fellow beings.

This "church" (and I use that term very loosely) lacks all three.
Yes ................
04-02-2010, 06:33 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
There is free speech.

Then there is common decency and common sense and compassion for our fellow beings.

This "church" (and I use that term very loosely) lacks all three.
Problems occur when people think that having a right to speak also gives them a right to be heard.

04-02-2010, 08:09 AM   #9
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Morning Rupert.
Way I see it is these people gangbangers and the leader of this BS church don't care about right or wrong , just their own rotten little agendas.
Gang activity needs to be penalized far more severely on a nationwide basis .
With regards to this "church" organizing protests at the funerals of our fallen servicemen , I know a few retired Marines who would love to get a copy of their schedule of events.
Without trying to throw my personal religious views in too much , I'd like to say that I believe there is a special place in hell for people like the leaders of this "church".
04-02-2010, 08:15 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
Morning Rupert.
Way I see it is these people gangbangers and the leader of this BS church don't care about right or wrong , just their own rotten little agendas.
Gang activity needs to be penalized far more severely on a nationwide basis .
With regards to this "church" organizing protests at the funerals of our fallen servicemen , I know a few retired Marines who would love to get a copy of their schedule of events.
Without trying to throw my personal religious views in too much , I'd like to say that I believe there is a special place in hell for people like the leaders of this "church".
We are in serious agreement here Seacapt. Last year we had these sick bastards announce that they were showing up at the funeral of a local fallen Soldier ( they love the publicity, so make sure the Press will be there) When they arrived on the scene, local Bikers had, at a distance, surrounded the entire perimeter. These perverts all of a sudden lost their First Amendment Zeal......imagine that!
Best Regards
Your Pal

Old Rupert does have a softer side Seacapt...I'll show this to you, since you are my Pal, but don't "show it around" ......I have an image to uphold here you know!

When my Dolly says it is time for me to Rock-A Bye aby....I do what I am told...

Just doing what I am told to do......


My Squirrels don't call me the "Big Ugly" for nothing, once again proving they are damn smart!

Last edited by Rupert; 04-02-2010 at 08:24 AM.
04-02-2010, 08:29 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I am going to call it Evil, for lack of any other explanation in my limited vocabulary.
Evil:

A perfectly decent description of what these folks did.

The problem for me is that it lets us off too easily. While "evil" may describe it does not explain.

What is the source of such behavior? It must be more than just a simple-minded Manichean struggle between darkness and light - it's a comforting thought but probably wrong.

Last edited by wildman; 04-02-2010 at 08:35 AM.
04-02-2010, 09:12 AM   #12
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we are in complete agreement here rupert. as someone who does some local photojournalism, and knowing that they have been seen nationwide and little has been done to stop it, if I were to bear witness to such a thing I would absolutely refuse to photograph it, (while making sure they knew I was refusing to give them exposure) and I would do my best to encourage anyone else there to do the same. they want media coverage, but if they don't get it, they have no reason to continue this completely horrid behavior. they have the right to say what they want (within the law), but they wont bother saying it if it falls on deaf ears. they aren't crusaders for anything, so I think they would give up pretty easy if ignored. now we just need to practice ignoring them.
04-02-2010, 09:13 AM   #13
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Those bikers are among my heroes.

That Westboro Baptist Church are nothing but sadistic religious *thugs* ...the homophobia they use an excuse to hate America and abuse everyone in sight, is largely the same thing when put more 'politiely,' though. They say it's 'just the Bible' when they wave signs calling LGBT people *beasts,* complete with citation, actually.

It's not just a matter of 'overzealousness,' though, they seem to have gone way past fundamentalist Christianity and made some kind of hateful death cult out of it. They're overtaken by nothing but hatred and fear, and don't care who they harm about it...

That, Rupert, you could call 'evil,' I think. They've certainly 'got backwards.' But their homophobia comes from the same place as any other religious-based motivations.

And, no, Booger, the Catholic Church doesn't "manufacture homosexuality:" it manufactures the "sin" of homosexuality and blames homosexuals for what it does, teaches, and covers up for.

A full third of the victims are *girls,* people keep forgetting. It's not about a healthy adult orientation, it's about *power, control, and these 'sin dramas* They see victims as 'sins' and not *people.*

These priests actually think they're doing the victims a favor in one way or another. By 'dealing with your sin' or however they spin it.

Boys are targeted more, for the sexual end of abuse, anyway, a) cause of the closet-case factor, (the clergy being supposedly the only respectable place for gay people to go be celibate, which is a pressure-cooker of itself,) but b) Because the very homophobia the priests teach isolates and silences the victims. Girls are theoretically better-protected: virginity's something of a commodity and it's less certain the victims would be blamed if they talk. Also it's more likely we *would* talk.

Either way, it's *vulnerability* they target. People who are outcasts or have trouble at home or are considered 'suspect' of being queer, 'sluts,' 'weird,' learning-disabled, or already traumatized in one way or another catch a lot of it. Not believing in Christianity, is itself something that can open one up for ostracization and being targeted for 'spiritual counseling.'

The Church likes to think that 'more of the same,' ...blaming homosexuality and saying that makes people pedophiles or pederasts, of course calling LBGT people 'objectively disordered,' ...ie not credible witnesses a priori, (Also simply ignoring the physical and emotional abuse that's also pretty rampant) ...ignoring female victims, and blaming the rest... is going to solve things. People don't seem to be buying that anymore, at least.

So, no, they don't 'manufacture homosexuality' ...Just a whole lot of damage.

Oh, and they don't actually abuse more than all other churches or anything, it just comes in a different and more institutionalized form.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 04-02-2010 at 09:21 AM.
04-02-2010, 09:34 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Some here may think that I cross the line often, or too often, or get too close......may be, just depends on your sensitivity or the thickness of your hide.

However, I am seeing more and more episodes in the "real world" where the line of human decency has been crossed....mutilated really...by some that think they have the right to be sick and perverted at the expense of innocent victims. A case in point is a story on Chris Matthews tonight (Yes, I know you guys on the right hate him, but keep listening). It concerned a father that sued a group of "Church People" for picketing his sons funeral....his son that was killed in Iraq, because the young man deserved death as God's punishment for America's tolerance of homosexuals. Here is a grieving family, burying their young son, and hearing and seeing a horde of perverts chanting that he deserved to die....and much worse. The young boy was not even gay....they do this at the funeral of any Soldier that dies in combat when the opportunity arises. Would it have mattered if he had been gay? Hell no, it wouldn't be any less vulgar.

So the father sued them.....won the first round, then lost on appeal and was ordered to pay the legal fees of the "Church People". It is now headed for the Supreme Court, and let's hope that bunch of losers can get this one right.

While we all have broad rights and can have a wide range of beliefs and opinions, even as we do on this Forum....there is a sort of sickness that has engulfed our Nation when we see this sort of activity that is so obviously out off character of the intent of our freedom of speech that we need to make our intolerance of it known . I hope I can get some bipartisan agreement here, it would make me feel better about our group and restore a little of my personal confidence in our country....not that anyone here owes me a thing....but I do think we owe it to each other....and to the father of that young man and his family, as well as all the others that have been forced to endure this atrocity.
Best Regards
Rupert
Well Rupert, you won't find me agreeing with you too often, especially when it comes to politics. However, in this case, I'm firmly with you. Other than to say I think they are all phucked in the head hypocrites, I'm not going to much into what I think of "Church People". They should open that book they claim to follow and read what it says about judging others. That, by the way, does not refer to people who actually try to live the life of a believer. You would never see one of them at one of these so called protests.

I honestly think that the freedom of speech our bill of rights gives us, was intended to be the freedom to speak out against the government without fear of reprisal. That right has been so completely perverted by so many that it's original intent is lost. It is too often used or rather abused, throwing anything resembling basic decency into the crapper.

Whether the man was gay or not doesn't matter one bit. Not to me anyway. If someone is capable of and willing to, pick up a rifle and march into battle on my behalf, it doesn't matter to me if he/she/it wants to plaster their gay pride flag on their chest. I only hope that they come back alive and well as I would like to see every US soldier do.

Without getting into a debate about whether we should be there or not (I'm not going to debate it with anyone), these "church people" should remember that, gay or not, this man and others died or were maimed, protecting their right to protest and worship whatever god they see fit. Agree or disagree with the cause or lifestyle (chosen or born into, whatever), some decency and reverence should be held for our fallen troops.

The first amendment to the US Constitution...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I don't see anything in there that entitles people to be a raging dickhead.

04-02-2010, 09:36 AM   #15
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Pretty hard for any of us to consider this anything other than evil and disgusting.

It sickens me when hate and Christian churches combine. Funny how from the ten commandments "Love thy neighbour..." can so easily be ignored if the so called cause is just(ified)

So if you really feel strongly about it: Put your wallet here From This on WBAL
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