Is the Devil real?

Green_Manelishi · 04-05-2010, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

Perhaps you'll enlighten me about scripture. And about hate. When I was ordained as a Baptist minister some decades ago, I was weak in those subjects.

It appears you still are weak in your knowledge of Scripture but your rant shows your master has taught you well.

jgredline · 04-05-2010, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by RioRico

Perhaps you'll enlighten me about scripture. And about hate. When I was ordained as a Baptist minister some decades ago, I was weak in those subjects.

So Rio,
You where a BM. What turned you?

RioRico · 04-05-2010, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Green_Manelishi

It appears you still are weak in your knowledge of Scripture but your rant shows your master has taught you well.

I have neither time nor stomach for this. Far be it for me to impede your beliefs; you'll believe whatever you want anyway. Bye now.

EDIT: Let me explain (briefly). If you wish to dispute what I've written, fine. But since you only attack me as a person, feh, who needs you?

Originally posted by jgredline

So Rio,
You where a BM. What turned you?

Experience. Study. Reality.

Rupert · 04-05-2010, 07:52 PM

I'm just guessing here....with some good experience as background. I've known a few Ex Baptist Ministers, and they are generally the most bitter anti God people on earth. They go out into the world imagining a Big Fancy Church, a huge congregation, fancy home, cars, and boats along with fine golfing equipment and High-Class friends/members uplifting them at every word from their Golden Lips.........
When it doesn't work out that way, there is suddenly no God, or God is a liar and user of man. They never imagine that they were the ones that failed, or that God saw through them all along. On the other hand, they might actually be better off than those that succeeded and now wallow in wealth and rub shoulders with high standing politicians, forgetting their real purpose to serve God.......there is a special place for them too.
When we fail, it is always easier to blame the Boss than ourselves, even if we know we are at fault. It is a lot like the "shoot the messenger" approach when bad news comes our way. Judas was a great example of the price some are apparently willing to pay to avoid the truth.
Best Regards!

jgredline · 04-05-2010, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

I'm just guessing here....with some good experience as a background. I've known a few Ex Baptist Ministers, and they are generally the most bitter anti God people on earth. They go out into the world imagining a Big Fancy Church, a huge congregation, fancy home and cars and boats along with fine golfing equipment and High-Class friends/members uplifting them at every word from their Golden Lips.........
When it doesn't work out that way, there is suddenly no God, or God is a liar and user of man. They never imagine that they were the ones that failed, or that God saw though them all along. On the other hand, they might actually be better off than tose that succeeded and now wallow in wealth and rub shoulders with high standing politicians, forgetting their real purpose to serve God.......there is a special place for them too.
Best Regards!

Rupert, For the most part I agree with you. The difference is that I would not lump in all baptist into the same group. I know quite a few that have their theology straight, but I know more that don't...Still it goes back to ''work out your own salvation'' Not work for your salvation....

Rupert · 04-05-2010, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by jgredline

Rupert, For the most part I agree with you. The difference is that I would not lump in all baptist into the same group. I know quite a few that have their theology straight, but I know more that don't...Still it goes back to ''work out your own salvation'' Not work for your salvation....

Well, I didn't say "ALL"...it is a word I try to avoid and if I use it.....it is usually with regret. Many Pastors are doing the work they were called to do, and get little credit, no doubt. Many more are in it for the Power and Cash, there is little doubt about that. If you have ever been around a Baptist Convention, you know that most Pastors wear the size of their Church like an Officers wife wears her husbands rank.......I know all about that too. You hear lot about how many they have "saved" in the last year too.....It all reminds me a lot of the story of the Widow Woman and her tiny offering.......Numbers mean little to God.......hearts mean everything.
Best Regards!

jgredline · 04-05-2010, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

Well, I didn't say "ALL"...it is a word I try to avoid and if I use it.....it is usually with regret. Many Pastors are doing the work they were called to do, and get little credit, no doubt. Many more are in it for the Power and Cash, there is little doubt about that. If you have ever been around a Baptist Convention, you know that most Pastors wear the size of their Church like an Officers wife wears her husbands rank.......I know all about that too. You hear lot about how many they have "saved" in the last year too.....It all reminds me a lot of the story of the Widow Woman and her tiny offering.......Numbers mean little to God.......hearts mean everything.
Best Regards!

Rupert, I apologize for the ''ALL'', you are right. I also completely agree with what you said here. It is a real shame that many of these ministers believe ''they'' are the ones who do the saving when salvation is 100% a work of God.

The truth is that no Christian who was ever ''born again'' has ever lost his/her salvation and in order to be a Christian by the biblical definition, one must be born again and if one is born again, Jesus said no one will snap him from his hand. I know you know this Rupert, but I say it for others who may not.

Rupert · 04-05-2010, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by jgredline

Rupert, I apologize for the ''ALL'', you are right. I also completely agree with what you said here. It is a real shame that many of these ministers believe ''they'' are the ones who do the saving when salvation is 100% a work of God.

The truth is that no Christian who was ever ''born again'' has ever lost his/her salvation and in order to be a Christian by the biblical definition, one must be born again and if one is born again, Jesus said no one will snap him from his hand. I know you know this Rupert, but I say it for others who may not.

Yes, I know that and a lot of other Biblical facts, but there is little point in selling it here. Few in this country have not been exposed to the Word, and our responsibility ends with that. There is not a single example where Jesus persued anyone after they rejected His call. Unlike Pastors that a want to sing "one more hymm"...for twenty more verses, once was all Jesus needed to do His work. I'm certainly not better than Jesus. "Many are called...few are chosen"
Best Regards!

jgredline · 04-05-2010, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

Yes, I know that and a lot of other Biblical facts, but there is little point in selling it here. Few in this country have not been exposed to the Word, and our responsibility ends with that. There is not a single example where Jesus persued anyone after they rejected His call. Unlike Pastors that a want to sing "one more hymm"...for twenty more verses, once was all Jesus needed to do His work. I'm certainly not better than Jesus. "Many are called...few are chosen"
Best Regards!

Agreed again

RioRico · 04-06-2010, 01:16 AM

Maybe I should explain my background a bit. "Power and cash" were definitely not factors. I was raised Quaker (dad's side) and Methodist (mom's side). Quaker grandma watched too much televangelism and sent me to Oral Roberts U when it was new -- I did a program there. Then I lived with a Chassidic Jewish hippie commune awhile. Then I went to Mexico City and ended up in a Free Baptist community there, where after some study the bishop ordained me. I never took that too seriously -- if *I* could be a BM, *anyone* could.

Then I looked seriously into rationalism, and realized all religions were crutches, control structures. All religions are schisms from other religions, all are heresies, and whichever is strongest anywhere is the Dominant Heresy. Dissidents beware! And then I read THE BIRTH OF THE GODS (Guy Swanson, U.Michigan, 1970), a study of 50 indigenous cultures. Swanson correlates spiritual beliefs with specific social factors, but shows that otherwise, there is no generality of beliefs. Some cultures have nothing that you'd recognize as a religion. There are no universalities, except that people are people.

Later (with the growth of computer networking) I got into skepticism. I ran a popular elist, and was invited to edit other paranormal-conspiracy-UFO forums. My brief: debunk the myths, inject some reality. I could only take a few years of that, as most conspiracy theories have a bedrock of anti-Semitism, and I just couldn't stomach dealing with neo-Nazis forever. Now I've given up on politics too. It's much safer to just argue about cameras and lenses. I peek into this Religion-Politics forum and it's mostly sickening -- ad hominems, toxic bickering, nothing substantial. Feh. Y'all have fun now.

wildman · 04-06-2010, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by RioRico

I peek into this Religion-Politics forum and it's mostly sickening -- ad hominems, toxic bickering, nothing substantial. Feh. Y'all have fun now.

I come from a very different background but have come to substantially the same conclusion:

This forum is a triumph of opinion over substance.

**newmikey** · 04-06-2010, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by jgredline

I know there are many folks here who do not believe in GOD but are demons real? Is Satan (the devil) himself real?

Demons are a figment of your own brain, milling chemical substances and getting rid of surplus hallucinogenics.

The Devil (Satan) is actually a stand-in, slash sidekick, for God. Believers mix and match both at will but neither of these actually exist - they are like the proton and anti-proton: when brought together, they self-annihilate and generate energy.

The eventual answer must be: No!

Green_Manelishi · 04-06-2010, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by RioRico

I have neither time nor stomach for this. Far be it for me to impede your beliefs; you'll believe whatever you want anyway. Bye now.

You are not capable of impeding my beliefs. You too will believe, or not, whatever you choose.

EDIT: Let me explain (briefly). If you wish to dispute what I've written, fine. But since you only attack me as a person, feh, who needs you?

I was not "attacking" you, only your claims. No one "needs" me.

Experience. Study. Reality.

Same here. Experience. Study of truth (it's the only way to recognize a lie). Real reality; not a reality I choose.

---------- Post added 04-06-2010 at 08:07 AM ----------

Originally posted by RioRico

Maybe I should explain my background a bit. "Power and cash" were definitely not factors. I was raised Quaker (dad's side) and Methodist (mom's side). Quaker grandma watched too much televangelism and sent me to Oral Roberts U when it was new -- I did a program there. Then I lived with a Chassidic Jewish hippie commune awhile. Then I went to Mexico City and ended up in a Free Baptist community there, where after some study the bishop ordained me. I never took that too seriously -- if *I* could be a BM, *anyone* could.

Then I looked seriously into rationalism, and realized all religions were crutches, control structures. All religions are schisms from other religions, all are heresies, and whichever is strongest anywhere is the Dominant Heresy. Dissidents beware! And then I read THE BIRTH OF THE GODS (Guy Swanson, U.Michigan, 1970), a study of 50 indigenous cultures. Swanson correlates spiritual beliefs with specific social factors, but shows that otherwise, there is no generality of beliefs. Some cultures have nothing that you'd recognize as a religion. There are no universalities, except that people are people.

Later (with the growth of computer networking) I got into skepticism. I ran a popular elist, and was invited to edit other paranormal-conspiracy-UFO forums. My brief: debunk the myths, inject some reality. I could only take a few years of that, as most conspiracy theories have a bedrock of anti-Semitism, and I just couldn't stomach dealing with neo-Nazis forever. Now I've given up on politics too. It's much safer to just argue about cameras and lenses. I peek into this Religion-Politics forum and it's mostly sickening -- ad hominems, toxic bickering, nothing substantial. Feh. Y'all have fun now.

So you blame God for the failings of humans?

jgredline · 04-06-2010, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by RioRico

Maybe I should explain my background a bit. "Power and cash" were definitely not factors. I was raised Quaker (dad's side) and Methodist (mom's side). Quaker grandma watched too much televangelism and sent me to Oral Roberts U when it was new

This is a real shame. While grandma was trying to give you a better life, you got sent to the wolves. Many good folks have been caught up in this WOF false teaching....

Quote:

-- I did a program there. Then I lived with a Chassidic Jewish hippie commune awhile. Then I went to Mexico City and ended up in a Free Baptist community there, where after some study the bishop ordained me. I never took that too seriously -- if *I* could be a BM, *anyone* could.

Sadly, this is true of too many places...What ends up happening is you end up with Barrio theology...

Quote:

Then I looked seriously into rationalism, and realized all religions were crutches, control structures. All religions are schisms from other religions, all are heresies, and whichever is strongest anywhere is the Dominant Heresy. Dissidents beware! And then I read THE BIRTH OF THE GODS (Guy Swanson, U.Michigan, 1970), a study of 50 indigenous cultures. Swanson correlates spiritual beliefs with specific social factors, but shows that otherwise, there is no generality of beliefs. Some cultures have nothing that you'd recognize as a religion. There are no universalities, except that people are people.

Well perhaps this is where you went wrong. ''IMO'' it appears to me that you studied and took to heart the wrong book or books. Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with all mighty God. Each person should do their own study on the scriptures. Everything from secular sources should be checked against scripture.

Quote:

Later (with the growth of computer networking) I got into skepticism. I ran a popular elist, and was invited to edit other paranormal-conspiracy-UFO forums. My brief: debunk the myths, inject some reality. I could only take a few years of that, as most conspiracy theories have a bedrock of anti-Semitism, and I just couldn't stomach dealing with neo-Nazis forever. Now I've given up on politics too. It's much safer to just argue about cameras and lenses. I peek into this Religion-Politics forum and it's mostly sickening -- ad hominems, toxic bickering, nothing substantial. Feh. Y'all have fun now.

But yet here you are. You told me in another thread that you would see me in hell...I pray that I will see you indeed, but in heaven.

Rupert · 04-06-2010, 10:59 AM

I made Mrs Rupert very angry once....well, to be honest, more than once, and if I had been able to get a shot off while loking back and running at full speed, I could show you a photo of the Devil that would transform your doubts instantly. If you guys were worth it, I would try to provoke her ( it's not hard) to get a shot, but you are not worth the risk involved. Sorry!

They say the Devil can appear as an Angel........believe it!

04-05-2010, 07:44 PM	#33
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by Green_Manelishi It appears you still are weak in your knowledge of Scripture but your rant shows your master has taught you well. I have neither time nor stomach for this. Far be it for me to impede your beliefs; you'll believe whatever you want anyway. Bye now. EDIT: Let me explain (briefly). If you wish to dispute what I've written, fine. But since you only attack me as a person, feh, who needs you? Originally posted by jgredline So Rio, You where a BM. What turned you? Experience. Study. Reality. Last edited by RioRico; 04-05-2010 at 07:59 PM.

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04-05-2010, 07:30 PM	#31
Green_Manelishi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: On the edge ... Posts: 179	Originally posted by RioRico Perhaps you'll enlighten me about scripture. And about hate. When I was ordained as a Baptist minister some decades ago, I was weak in those subjects. It appears you still are weak in your knowledge of Scripture but your rant shows your master has taught you well.

04-05-2010, 07:38 PM	#32
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628 Original Poster	Originally posted by RioRico Perhaps you'll enlighten me about scripture. And about hate. When I was ordained as a Baptist minister some decades ago, I was weak in those subjects. So Rio, You where a BM. What turned you?

04-05-2010, 07:52 PM	#34
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	I'm just guessing here....with some good experience as background. I've known a few Ex Baptist Ministers, and they are generally the most bitter anti God people on earth. They go out into the world imagining a Big Fancy Church, a huge congregation, fancy home, cars, and boats along with fine golfing equipment and High-Class friends/members uplifting them at every word from their Golden Lips......... When it doesn't work out that way, there is suddenly no God, or God is a liar and user of man. They never imagine that they were the ones that failed, or that God saw through them all along. On the other hand, they might actually be better off than those that succeeded and now wallow in wealth and rub shoulders with high standing politicians, forgetting their real purpose to serve God.......there is a special place for them too. When we fail, it is always easier to blame the Boss than ourselves, even if we know we are at fault. It is a lot like the "shoot the messenger" approach when bad news comes our way. Judas was a great example of the price some are apparently willing to pay to avoid the truth. Best Regards!

04-05-2010, 07:59 PM	#35
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rupert I'm just guessing here....with some good experience as a background. I've known a few Ex Baptist Ministers, and they are generally the most bitter anti God people on earth. They go out into the world imagining a Big Fancy Church, a huge congregation, fancy home and cars and boats along with fine golfing equipment and High-Class friends/members uplifting them at every word from their Golden Lips......... When it doesn't work out that way, there is suddenly no God, or God is a liar and user of man. They never imagine that they were the ones that failed, or that God saw though them all along. On the other hand, they might actually be better off than tose that succeeded and now wallow in wealth and rub shoulders with high standing politicians, forgetting their real purpose to serve God.......there is a special place for them too. Best Regards! Rupert, For the most part I agree with you. The difference is that I would not lump in all baptist into the same group. I know quite a few that have their theology straight, but I know more that don't...Still it goes back to ''work out your own salvation'' Not work for your salvation....

04-05-2010, 08:31 PM	#36
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Originally posted by jgredline Rupert, For the most part I agree with you. The difference is that I would not lump in all baptist into the same group. I know quite a few that have their theology straight, but I know more that don't...Still it goes back to ''work out your own salvation'' Not work for your salvation.... Well, I didn't say "ALL"...it is a word I try to avoid and if I use it.....it is usually with regret. Many Pastors are doing the work they were called to do, and get little credit, no doubt. Many more are in it for the Power and Cash, there is little doubt about that. If you have ever been around a Baptist Convention, you know that most Pastors wear the size of their Church like an Officers wife wears her husbands rank.......I know all about that too. You hear lot about how many they have "saved" in the last year too.....It all reminds me a lot of the story of the Widow Woman and her tiny offering.......Numbers mean little to God.......hearts mean everything. Best Regards!

04-05-2010, 08:49 PM	#37
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rupert Well, I didn't say "ALL"...it is a word I try to avoid and if I use it.....it is usually with regret. Many Pastors are doing the work they were called to do, and get little credit, no doubt. Many more are in it for the Power and Cash, there is little doubt about that. If you have ever been around a Baptist Convention, you know that most Pastors wear the size of their Church like an Officers wife wears her husbands rank.......I know all about that too. You hear lot about how many they have "saved" in the last year too.....It all reminds me a lot of the story of the Widow Woman and her tiny offering.......Numbers mean little to God.......hearts mean everything. Best Regards! Rupert, I apologize for the ''ALL'', you are right. I also completely agree with what you said here. It is a real shame that many of these ministers believe ''they'' are the ones who do the saving when salvation is 100% a work of God. The truth is that no Christian who was ever ''born again'' has ever lost his/her salvation and in order to be a Christian by the biblical definition, one must be born again and if one is born again, Jesus said no one will snap him from his hand. I know you know this Rupert, but I say it for others who may not.

04-05-2010, 09:39 PM	#38
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Originally posted by jgredline Rupert, I apologize for the ''ALL'', you are right. I also completely agree with what you said here. It is a real shame that many of these ministers believe ''they'' are the ones who do the saving when salvation is 100% a work of God. The truth is that no Christian who was ever ''born again'' has ever lost his/her salvation and in order to be a Christian by the biblical definition, one must be born again and if one is born again, Jesus said no one will snap him from his hand. I know you know this Rupert, but I say it for others who may not. Yes, I know that and a lot of other Biblical facts, but there is little point in selling it here. Few in this country have not been exposed to the Word, and our responsibility ends with that. There is not a single example where Jesus persued anyone after they rejected His call. Unlike Pastors that a want to sing "one more hymm"...for twenty more verses, once was all Jesus needed to do His work. I'm certainly not better than Jesus. "Many are called...few are chosen" Best Regards!

04-05-2010, 09:59 PM	#39
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rupert Yes, I know that and a lot of other Biblical facts, but there is little point in selling it here. Few in this country have not been exposed to the Word, and our responsibility ends with that. There is not a single example where Jesus persued anyone after they rejected His call. Unlike Pastors that a want to sing "one more hymm"...for twenty more verses, once was all Jesus needed to do His work. I'm certainly not better than Jesus. "Many are called...few are chosen" Best Regards! Agreed again

04-06-2010, 01:16 AM	#40
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Maybe I should explain my background a bit. "Power and cash" were definitely not factors. I was raised Quaker (dad's side) and Methodist (mom's side). Quaker grandma watched too much televangelism and sent me to Oral Roberts U when it was new -- I did a program there. Then I lived with a Chassidic Jewish hippie commune awhile. Then I went to Mexico City and ended up in a Free Baptist community there, where after some study the bishop ordained me. I never took that too seriously -- if I could be a BM, anyone could. Then I looked seriously into rationalism, and realized all religions were crutches, control structures. All religions are schisms from other religions, all are heresies, and whichever is strongest anywhere is the Dominant Heresy. Dissidents beware! And then I read THE BIRTH OF THE GODS (Guy Swanson, U.Michigan, 1970), a study of 50 indigenous cultures. Swanson correlates spiritual beliefs with specific social factors, but shows that otherwise, there is no generality of beliefs. Some cultures have nothing that you'd recognize as a religion. There are no universalities, except that people are people. Later (with the growth of computer networking) I got into skepticism. I ran a popular elist, and was invited to edit other paranormal-conspiracy-UFO forums. My brief: debunk the myths, inject some reality. I could only take a few years of that, as most conspiracy theories have a bedrock of anti-Semitism, and I just couldn't stomach dealing with neo-Nazis forever. Now I've given up on politics too. It's much safer to just argue about cameras and lenses. I peek into this Religion-Politics forum and it's mostly sickening -- ad hominems, toxic bickering, nothing substantial. Feh. Y'all have fun now.

04-06-2010, 01:35 AM	#41
wildman Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Flyover America Posts: 4,469	Originally posted by RioRico I peek into this Religion-Politics forum and it's mostly sickening -- ad hominems, toxic bickering, nothing substantial. Feh. Y'all have fun now. I come from a very different background but have come to substantially the same conclusion: This forum is a triumph of opinion over substance.

04-06-2010, 02:29 AM	#42
newmikey Site Supporter Join Date: May 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,287	Originally posted by jgredline I know there are many folks here who do not believe in GOD but are demons real? Is Satan (the devil) himself real? Demons are a figment of your own brain, milling chemical substances and getting rid of surplus hallucinogenics. The Devil (Satan) is actually a stand-in, slash sidekick, for God. Believers mix and match both at will but neither of these actually exist - they are like the proton and anti-proton: when brought together, they self-annihilate and generate energy. The eventual answer must be: No!

04-06-2010, 06:05 AM	#43
Green_Manelishi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: On the edge ... Posts: 179	Originally posted by RioRico I have neither time nor stomach for this. Far be it for me to impede your beliefs; you'll believe whatever you want anyway. Bye now. You are not capable of impeding my beliefs. You too will believe, or not, whatever you choose. EDIT: Let me explain (briefly). If you wish to dispute what I've written, fine. But since you only attack me as a person, feh, who needs you? I was not "attacking" you, only your claims. No one "needs" me. Experience. Study. Reality. Same here. Experience. Study of truth (it's the only way to recognize a lie). Real reality; not a reality I choose. ---------- Post added 04-06-2010 at 08:07 AM ---------- Originally posted by RioRico Maybe I should explain my background a bit. "Power and cash" were definitely not factors. I was raised Quaker (dad's side) and Methodist (mom's side). Quaker grandma watched too much televangelism and sent me to Oral Roberts U when it was new -- I did a program there. Then I lived with a Chassidic Jewish hippie commune awhile. Then I went to Mexico City and ended up in a Free Baptist community there, where after some study the bishop ordained me. I never took that too seriously -- if I could be a BM, anyone could. Then I looked seriously into rationalism, and realized all religions were crutches, control structures. All religions are schisms from other religions, all are heresies, and whichever is strongest anywhere is the Dominant Heresy. Dissidents beware! And then I read THE BIRTH OF THE GODS (Guy Swanson, U.Michigan, 1970), a study of 50 indigenous cultures. Swanson correlates spiritual beliefs with specific social factors, but shows that otherwise, there is no generality of beliefs. Some cultures have nothing that you'd recognize as a religion. There are no universalities, except that people are people. Later (with the growth of computer networking) I got into skepticism. I ran a popular elist, and was invited to edit other paranormal-conspiracy-UFO forums. My brief: debunk the myths, inject some reality. I could only take a few years of that, as most conspiracy theories have a bedrock of anti-Semitism, and I just couldn't stomach dealing with neo-Nazis forever. Now I've given up on politics too. It's much safer to just argue about cameras and lenses. I peek into this Religion-Politics forum and it's mostly sickening -- ad hominems, toxic bickering, nothing substantial. Feh. Y'all have fun now. So you blame God for the failings of humans?

04-06-2010, 10:50 AM	#44
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628 Original Poster	Originally posted by RioRico Maybe I should explain my background a bit. "Power and cash" were definitely not factors. I was raised Quaker (dad's side) and Methodist (mom's side). Quaker grandma watched too much televangelism and sent me to Oral Roberts U when it was new This is a real shame. While grandma was trying to give you a better life, you got sent to the wolves. Many good folks have been caught up in this WOF false teaching.... Quote: -- I did a program there. Then I lived with a Chassidic Jewish hippie commune awhile. Then I went to Mexico City and ended up in a Free Baptist community there, where after some study the bishop ordained me. I never took that too seriously -- if I could be a BM, anyone could. Sadly, this is true of too many places...What ends up happening is you end up with Barrio theology... Quote: Then I looked seriously into rationalism, and realized all religions were crutches, control structures. All religions are schisms from other religions, all are heresies, and whichever is strongest anywhere is the Dominant Heresy. Dissidents beware! And then I read THE BIRTH OF THE GODS (Guy Swanson, U.Michigan, 1970), a study of 50 indigenous cultures. Swanson correlates spiritual beliefs with specific social factors, but shows that otherwise, there is no generality of beliefs. Some cultures have nothing that you'd recognize as a religion. There are no universalities, except that people are people. Well perhaps this is where you went wrong. ''IMO'' it appears to me that you studied and took to heart the wrong book or books. Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with all mighty God. Each person should do their own study on the scriptures. Everything from secular sources should be checked against scripture. Quote: Later (with the growth of computer networking) I got into skepticism. I ran a popular elist, and was invited to edit other paranormal-conspiracy-UFO forums. My brief: debunk the myths, inject some reality. I could only take a few years of that, as most conspiracy theories have a bedrock of anti-Semitism, and I just couldn't stomach dealing with neo-Nazis forever. Now I've given up on politics too. It's much safer to just argue about cameras and lenses. I peek into this Religion-Politics forum and it's mostly sickening -- ad hominems, toxic bickering, nothing substantial. Feh. Y'all have fun now. But yet here you are. You told me in another thread that you would see me in hell...I pray that I will see you indeed, but in heaven.

04-06-2010, 10:59 AM	#45
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	I made Mrs Rupert very angry once....well, to be honest, more than once, and if I had been able to get a shot off while loking back and running at full speed, I could show you a photo of the Devil that would transform your doubts instantly. If you guys were worth it, I would try to provoke her ( it's not hard) to get a shot, but you are not worth the risk involved. Sorry! They say the Devil can appear as an Angel........believe it!