[Artesian]

I am sure that Toyota is shaking in their boots or sandals, whatever. Is the US Socialist Gov. is trying to make hay to sell more Government GM autos or maybe even some more Hemi's. Looks suspicious to me.
A

[Parallax]

Toyota handing over $16 Million dollars as a fine impacts them financially about like paying a parking ticket affects you or me.
The loss in sales to them from all of this is another story. It is probably far greater than it would have been to GM, Ford, or Chrysler if it had happened to them. People feel let down. Historically, when these things happened to one of the big three people said "SEE! That's why you should buy Toyota!" Now that its Toyota its "Now what do we do? Oh, the irony.........

[boriscleto]

They will just have to say "See, that's why you should buy a Honda".

[Rupert]

I'm just so shocked! Wow! It is hard to imagine an American Corporation being deceitful with its customers and shareholders....has that ever happened before? Does anyone remember such an incident in American Corporate history.....Sure, we've had our Enrons, AIGs, Big Banks, Brokerage Firms......but those episodes were all just honest mistakes....right?
Regards!
Mark down the Toyota stock price today....look at it in one year and then kick your own ass for not buying all of it you could afford.
Regards!

[Green_Manelishi]

I'm just so shocked! Wow! It is hard to imagine an American Corporation being deceitful with its customers and shareholders....has that ever happened before? Does anyone remember such an incident in American Corporate history.....Sure, we've had our Enrons, AIGs, Big Banks, Brokerage Firms......but those episodes were all just honest mistakes....right?
Regards!
Mark down the Toyota stock price today....look at it in one year and then kick your own ass for not buying all of it you could afford.
Regards!

'Tis true that dishonest mistakes are the worst kind of mistake.

I'm just so shocked! Wow! It is hard to imagine an American Corporation being deceitful with its customers and shareholders....has that ever happened before? Does anyone remember such an incident in American Corporate history.....Sure, we've had our Enrons, AIGs, Big Banks, Brokerage Firms......but those episodes were all just honest mistakes....right?
Regards!
Mark down the Toyota stock price today....look at it in one year and then kick your own ass for not buying all of it you could afford.
Regards!

You forgot WorldCom/MCI

[Ratmagiclady]

Toyota handing over $16 Million dollars as a fine impacts them financially about like paying a parking ticket affects you or me.
The loss in sales to them from all of this is another story. It is probably far greater than it would have been to GM, Ford, or Chrysler if it had happened to them. People feel let down. Historically, when these things happened to one of the big three people said "SEE! That's why you should buy Toyota!" Now that its Toyota its "Now what do we do? Oh, the irony.........

Well, Toyota *really* has traded on their reliability, ...too often the American Big Three have pretty much sold cars on size, image, and horsepower.

Come to think of it, Toyota's little quality problems there may *correlate* to their deciding to start 'going bigger' for the American market mood.

GM and Chrysler's notable failures recently, in fact have everything to do with relying on the sales and prestige of really big and wasteful stuff, while denying the fossil fuels situation and insisting on no CAFE standards and such: gas goes up to unmanageable-prices and jobs are lost: result? Dealerships going under with lots full of duallies, SUV's, Hummers, and, yes, 'Hemis.'

Ford, meanwhile, seemed to at least be doing a better job of hedging with smaller or at least more practically-sized vehicles.

They seem to have been making some pretty nice stuff all along. I haven't really been in the market, but you see them around.

Pity about Saturn, too: everyone I know with one thinks they're pretty good cars, but *those* were getting bigger, too, and for the most part just don't seem very *appealing.* ...and they didn't quite have Toyota's *rep* for reliability and all.

A lot of it comes down to denial, I figure. Like so many other things. It seems Chrysler's gone to marketing solely by threatened masculinity or something. I guess we'll see how that goes. I'm still mystified by how they could *possibly* screw up the PT Cruiser.

We looked at those a while back, and it was like, 'Wow, perfect size, practical shape, but somehow it manages to be both underpowered, inefficient, not particularly safe, *and* insist on just not even *looking* as cool as it could. '

Well, Toyota *really* has traded on their reliability, ...too often the American Big Three have pretty much sold cars on size, image, and horsepower.

Come to think of it, Toyota's little quality problems there may *correlate* to their deciding to start 'going bigger' for the American market mood.

GM and Chrysler's notable failures recently, in fact have everything to do with relying on the sales and prestige of really big and wasteful stuff, while denying the fossil fuels situation and insisting on no CAFE standards and such: gas goes up to unmanageable-prices and jobs are lost: result? Dealerships going under with lots full of duallies, SUV's, Hummers, and, yes, 'Hemis.'

Ford, meanwhile, seemed to at least be doing a better job of hedging with smaller or at least more practically-sized vehicles.

They seem to have been making some pretty nice stuff all along. I haven't really been in the market, but you see them around.

Pity about Saturn, too: everyone I know with one thinks they're pretty good cars, but *those* were getting bigger, too, and for the most part just don't seem very *appealing.* ...and they didn't quite have Toyota's *rep* for reliability and all.

A lot of it comes down to denial, I figure. Like so many other things. It seems Chrysler's gone to marketing solely by threatened masculinity or something. I guess we'll see how that goes. I'm still mystified by how they could *possibly* screw up the PT Cruiser.

We looked at those a while back, and it was like, 'Wow, perfect size, practical shape, but somehow it manages to be both underpowered, inefficient, not particularly safe, *and* insist on just not even *looking* as cool as it could. '

The cars seem to get bigger because it's hard to fit a family of 4 into a "smart" car. The car seats just don't work. And it's really hard to tow a trailer for work behind a "smart" car. Heck it's hard putting a car seat into a Dodge Dakota.

[Rupert]

The cars seem to get bigger because it's hard to fit a family of 4 into a "smart" car. The car seats just don't work. And it's really hard to tow a trailer for work behind a "smart" car. Heck it's hard putting a car seat into a Dodge Dakota.

They seem to do it in Europe and China George...but then again, they don't have a huge ( no pun) population of the morbidly obese that we have, do they? Most people I see at Wallyworld don't even arrive by automobile....they are forklifted in like a load of cement.
Regards!

[Ratmagiclady]

Well, one needn't go ad extremis, here. A 'Smart Car' isn't sold on the basis 'This is the absolute smartest thing for all purposes,' ...it's just a lot smarter than sitting alone in traffic in a car built for maximum capacity.

It's not like there's some absolute saying 'Trucks and big cars shouldn't exist,' but whatever happened to 'The Right Tool For The Right Job?'

For one thing, heresy, I know, but: *sharing works.*

If *someone* has a big ol' truck, the stuff *gets moved or towed* ...then no one *has* to commute every day in their own separate ones cause they occasionally like to move some furniture.

They seem to do it in Europe and China George...but then again, they don't have a huge ( no pun) population of the morbidly obese that we have, do they? Most people I see at Wallyworld don't even arrive by automobile....they are forklifted in like a load of cement.
Regards!

Well Rupert when the car seat is in the Dakota my wife is about hitting her knees on the dashboard. She's five foot tall. And it's a pain getting him out of the convertible with the top up.

Well how often do you see tall chinese though? I stand 6'1" Most of the cars the Big O wants us to drive I have to have my knees in my chest.

RML a smart car is pretty stupid actually. I sure wouldn't want to be in an accident with it. They do fly pretty good though.

[Parallax]

Several years ago I had a Dakota, briefly. It had the most uncomfortable bucket seats I have ever, before or since, put my butt in. I couldn't drive it more than 50 miles without being in pain.

[Artesian]

I do not want a smart car or any other dumb car the government will make us buy. I want a choice and do not want to be forced to drive some crappy little dangerous 4 wheel coffin.
A

[Ratmagiclady]

Several years ago I had a Dakota, briefly. It had the most uncomfortable bucket seats I have ever, before or since, put my butt in. I couldn't drive it more than 50 miles without being in pain.

Actually, that's another Chrysler product I just can't understand how they have managed to screw up so badly for so long. I like a vehicle that can do some work, but no illusions I'm up to anything that *requires* full-size these days.

And who said that a 'smart car' *existing* says you *will be forced to buy and drive one, Artesian?* Their existence constitutes threat and compulsion of some kind? 'Free market' guy?

[Parallax]

Actually, that's another Chrysler product I just can't understand how they have managed to screw up so badly for so long. I like a vehicle that can do some work, but no illusions I'm up to anything that *requires* full-size these days.

And who said that a 'smart car' *existing* says you *will be forced to buy and drive one, Artesian?* Their existence constitutes threat and compulsion of some kind? 'Free market' guy?

I don't require a full size, crew cab, 400hp, almost-all-the-bell-and-whistles truck either; but DAMN mine sure is nice to drive.