Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-12-2010, 10:40 AM   #1
Veteran Member
seacapt's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: North Carolina , USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,262
Hope and Change , "Hey mister can you spare some change?"

I sure do HOPE something is going to CHANGE
Nobody really wants to talk about their actual income but I'm curious.
I just finished with my book keeper and accountant only to find that my gross revenues were down by a full 1/3 from last year which was down slightly from the year prior.
I own/opperate a boat repair business and traditionally when times are tough I still do OK because people will fix and better maintain what they own rather than buy new. With the current economic climate things are different than I've ever seen them.
During Reagan and Bush1 I did well. During Clinton I had to work more/harder to make the same money I had in the past. Bush2 pretty steady except for high gas prices. Now I'm not so sure I wouldn't be better off bankrupting the corperation and becoming a burden on society. If it wasn't for my kids and my pride I probably would do just that.
Who out there is prospering now?
What types of business are making it and which are going belly up.
How's this "Hope and Change " stuff working for you?


Last edited by seacapt; 04-12-2010 at 12:52 PM.
04-12-2010, 10:44 AM   #2
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: La Crescenta, CA
Posts: 7,454
I work in the real estate marketing biz and against all odds I'm doing pretty well, thanks.
04-12-2010, 11:05 AM   #3
Site Supporter
Otis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis Fan
Site Supporter
Rupert's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,123
The Boat Repair business is not too good here either from what I hear. Neither is the RV/Motorhome business or Motorcycle/Jet Ski business. These are all a sort of "Luxury" addition in ones lifestyle...at least for "common people" so it is not surprising. Some prosper and some don't in every recession. Plumbers here are doing quite well, my phone rings even though I don't do much plumbing any more. Some of my friends are very busy, but it is hard to relate that across the nation...our local economy is still pretty good...lots of "Help Wanted" signs around town, thought they are for minimal paying jobs.

I won't assign blame here, we have that pact, but I do think that we have seen this all before and hopefully we will recover as in the past. Not comforting to you now, but you will surely survive, old Salty Dogs have tough hide!
Best Regards
Your Pal
Rupert
04-12-2010, 11:12 AM   #4
Pentaxian
Ratmagiclady's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: GA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,559
I think it's just possible that our 'hope' doesn't lie in selling middle-class luxury recreational items when the banks bloody well took those people's stuff under deregulation and, for all your assertions 'Government doesn't work,' ...Well, even if you want us all to get back to running up credit card debt to buy boats in resort areas, ....it takes a while to un-f*** things?


You know all that stuff you wouldn't admit was broken while a dittohead was in the White House? You know all that stuff you've been opposing tooth and nail by any means necessary since the new administration got in to *do* anything about it?


Takes time. Employment is in fact on the way up, and the results of the scorched earth policies of the Bush administration in fact *did* take a while to even start kicking in.. You remember that Great Depression we narrowly averted? (Extortionately-expensive and sickening as it was to pay off the very people who *screwed your customers?* ) It's gonna take a while for your customers to get that un-screwed. Possibly... Longer than you have to wait on that business model.


Don't say someone like me didn't warn you.


What, you expect people to up and start buying boats again?

That's how Ritz Camera went down.

04-12-2010, 11:18 AM   #5
Veteran Member
Nesster's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NJ USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 13,056
mine's gone down, significantly so, in the last two years. I'm now at the level I last saw in the late 90s. I work for one of those tarp banks...
04-12-2010, 11:42 AM   #6
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Parallax's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Dakota
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,064
My shop was down 2-3% last year from the previous year. So far this year it is down some, but I think I can attribute that to a winter that held on longer than normal. (Global warming, you know.)
04-12-2010, 11:47 AM   #7
Pentaxian
Ratmagiclady's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: GA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,559
QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
My shop was down 2-3% last year from the previous year. So far this year it is down some, but I think I can attribute that to a winter that held on longer than normal. (Global warming, you know.)
Cold air not in the Arctic, you know. Blame the libruls!
04-12-2010, 11:47 AM   #8
Veteran Member
gokenin's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: lowell,ma
Posts: 1,890
I have to say that my income has decreased 16% from last year, my company took away whatever OT i managed to have and on top of that they cut my regular hours by 5 hours a week. Not saying it would have been any diffrent under Bush but it hasn't gotten any better so far under O'Bama

04-12-2010, 11:52 AM   #9
Veteran Member
seacapt's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: North Carolina , USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,262
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
the banks bloody well took those people's stuff under deregulation
And who was at the helm and made a deal when the banks were deregulated?

...Well, even if you want us all to get back to running up credit card debt to buy boats in resort areas,
I don't believe in the use of credit cards!

Employment is in fact on the way up,
Not where I live or in my shop or for my vendors !

You remember that Great Depression we narrowly averted?
The economists say the recession is over . Lots of working folks say that's not so true.

Don't say someone like me didn't warn you.
You have a few valid points.

What, you expect people to up and start buying boats again?
No but it would be nice if people who worked hard and succeeeded didn't have it all taken away

.
Rat I do understand and agree with several of your points but I also have self made millionaires as customers who have become "slow pays"and I see a broad based industry with mostly American manufacturing in ruins .
I might be wrong but this hope & change stuff seems to benefit those who don't work far more than those who do.

Last edited by seacapt; 04-12-2010 at 12:56 PM.
04-12-2010, 12:55 PM   #10
graphicgr8s
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
I think it's just possible that our 'hope' doesn't lie in selling middle-class luxury recreational items when the banks bloody well took those people's stuff under deregulation and, for all your assertions 'Government doesn't work,' ...Well, even if you want us all to get back to running up credit card debt to buy boats in resort areas, ....it takes a while to un-f*** things?


You know all that stuff you wouldn't admit was broken while a dittohead was in the White House? You know all that stuff you've been opposing tooth and nail by any means necessary since the new administration got in to *do* anything about it?


Takes time. Employment is in fact on the way up, and the results of the scorched earth policies of the Bush administration in fact *did* take a while to even start kicking in.. You remember that Great Depression we narrowly averted? (Extortionately-expensive and sickening as it was to pay off the very people who *screwed your customers?* ) It's gonna take a while for your customers to get that un-screwed. Possibly... Longer than you have to wait on that business model.


Don't say someone like me didn't warn you.


What, you expect people to up and start buying boats again?

That's how Ritz Camera went down.
You know not for nothing, and most here know that I support banking regulation, but no one was holding a gun to any one's head to take the loans. Knowing full well they couldn't repay. I mean how many of us here know how much of a loan we can afford? I know what I can and can't afford. Don't you? Or are you not smart enough to control your own finances? If that's true than hire someone who can.

Are people really that stupid? (Rhetorical question. Yes, they are)
04-12-2010, 02:58 PM   #11
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,434
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
You know not for nothing, and most here know that I support banking regulation, but no one was holding a gun to any one's head to take the loans. Knowing full well they couldn't repay. I mean how many of us here know how much of a loan we can afford? I know what I can and can't afford. Don't you? Or are you not smart enough to control your own finances? If that's true than hire someone who can.

Are people really that stupid? (Rhetorical question. Yes, they are)
You make an invalid assumption... many took out loans that they could afford NOW but not when they reset due to ARM.... The snake oil salesmen told them .. It will work because you will be able to re-finance when the time comes...
Ask yourself as well why "businesses" are now defaulting on commercial paper...
Hope runneth eternal as they say..........
The default rate for commercial property mortgages held by U.S. banks more than doubled in the fourth quarter and may reach a peak of 5.4 percent at the end of next year, according to Real Capital Analytics Inc.

The default rate for loans on office, retail, hotel and industrial properties surged to 3.8 percent from 1.6 percent a year earlier, the New York-based real estate research firm said yesterday in a report. The default rate for loans on apartment buildings climbed to 4.4 percent from 1.8 percent.

“The level of distress continues to rise irrespective of improving economic trends,” Sam Chandan, Real Capital’s global chief economist, said in a telephone interview.

The commercial default rate rose from 3.4 percent in the third quarter, representing an increase of $4.5 billion in defaulted loans in the period, according to Real Capital. The rate will reach 5.1 percent at the end of this year, the research firm said.

The apartment default rate rose from 3.6 percent in the third quarter. The jump reflected a $1.6 billion increase in defaulted loans. Apartment defaults will peak at 5.3 percent at the end of 2010, said Real Capital, which based its analysis on bank filings and data from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.

Commercial Mortgage Default Rate in U.S. More Than Doubles - Bloomberg.com

Speculation

Speculative borrowing in residential real estate has been cited as a contributing factor to the subprime mortgage crisis.[62] During 2006, 22% of homes purchased (1.65 million units) were for investment purposes, with an additional 14% (1.07 million units) purchased as vacation homes. During 2005, these figures were 28% and 12%, respectively. In other words, a record level of nearly 40% of homes purchases were not intended as primary residences. David Lereah, NAR's chief economist at the time, stated that the 2006 decline in investment buying was expected: "Speculators left the market in 2006, which caused investment sales to fall much faster than the primary market."[63]

Housing prices nearly doubled between 2000 and 2006, a vastly different trend from the historical appreciation at roughly the rate of inflation. While homes had not traditionally been treated as investments subject to speculation, this behavior changed during the housing boom. Media widely reported condominiums being purchased while under construction, then being "flipped" (sold) for a profit without the seller ever having lived in them.[64] Some mortgage companies identified risks inherent in this activity as early as 2005, after identifying investors assuming highly leveraged positions in multiple properties.[65]

Nicole Gelinas of the Manhattan Institute described the negative consequences of not adjusting tax and mortgage policies to the shifting treatment of a home from conservative inflation hedge to speculative investment.[66] Economist Robert Shiller argued that speculative bubbles are fueled by "contagious optimism, seemingly impervious to facts, that often takes hold when prices are rising. Bubbles are primarily social phenomena; until we understand and address the psychology that fuels them, they're going to keep forming."[67] Keynesian economist Hyman Minsky described how speculative borrowing contributed to rising debt and an eventual collapse of asset values

Ahhhhh, speculation.. the American way.................
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

Last edited by jeffkrol; 04-12-2010 at 03:04 PM.
04-12-2010, 03:24 PM   #12
Senior Member
Green_Manelishi's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: On the edge ...
Posts: 179
QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Employment is in fact on the way up
More IRS agents, and a new fed'rel boorawcrapsee to administer "health care" is not an increase in employment.
04-12-2010, 03:53 PM   #13
Veteran Member
gokenin's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: lowell,ma
Posts: 1,890
QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
You make an invalid assumption... many took out loans that they could afford NOW but not when they reset due to ARM.... The snake oil salesmen told them .. It will work because you will be able to re-finance when the time comes...
Lets not forget the many took out loans then that they knew they couldn't cover. They took out loans because they thought the market would never crash and they could simply sell the house in a few years and make money. They took out loans that were intrest only for the first two years and they could cover the intrest but once they had to start paying the principle they were screwed or they lost their jobs. They were allowed to take loans without income verification and then they were shocked when they couldn't pay. I dont own a home but heck even I know you dont take an adjustable loan rate you always take a fixed rate especially when the rates are low you dont bank of the rates always going down like they did at the time. There is plenty of blame to go around but I would include the person taking the loan as well as the banks.
04-12-2010, 04:38 PM   #14
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,434
QuoteOriginally posted by gokenin Quote
Lets not forget the many took out loans then that they knew they couldn't cover. They took out loans because they thought the market would never crash and they could simply sell the house in a few years and make money. They took out loans that were intrest only for the first two years and they could cover the intrest but once they had to start paying the principle they were screwed or they lost their jobs. They were allowed to take loans without income verification and then they were shocked when they couldn't pay. I dont own a home but heck even I know you dont take an adjustable loan rate you always take a fixed rate especially when the rates are low you dont bank of the rates always going down like they did at the time. There is plenty of blame to go around but I would include the person taking the loan as well as the banks.
Would you lend money to someone like that? don't you think people HONESTLY thought they could do it for whatever deluded reason? Or did they just buy it knowing the'd be thrown out on the streets in a few years? For the majority it makes no sense. As I stated previously, I talked to 2 of the very "types" of people you are "stereotyping".. They believed what was sold to them, by the people that should have known better... They lost, the "should have known better then to lend them the money" won. BIG TIME.
hindsight is 20/20..... and blaming the victim is pointless.... the ones I talked to actually knew they screwed up but had believed, at the time, it would work. imagine your mortgage resetting to double digits on a house bought in an over valued (who values these?? ) market because of what some "expert" told them would not happen......
Not everyone's a genus like you and me...... that's WHY we have checks and balances.... which had disappeared due to greed.
I blame them All.. from the idiots who bought "out of their station" to the greedy mortgage lenders, to the banks that "buried their problems" in bonds and the gov. that made it a bit too easy ALL AROUND.....
Least of all don't blame the banks, and realtors, and hedge funds... heavens.. it wasn't THEIR fault. People just5 took advantage of them afterall.... well who's really suffering now........
nobody I know wanted the gov. to "buy" them a house, or banks to "give them" a house.. Most would have liked to kept what they bought if they could make it work.... Unfortunately that is not the name of the game....
Stop trying to go along w/ the divide and deflect attitude of the REAL powers and gainers in this country.... nothing will change and well end up going right around again, and again, and again..... because to a few, it's damn profitable.. profiteering
As to losing their house because they lost their job why even mention that. People lose their businesses every day because their bad business people, or their market tanks, or any number of reasons.. It's part of the system. I've lost money when renters filed bankruptcy.. annoying but it's part of the game we play with every day.. big whoop..
this time the amount was HUGE, which shouldn't even be possible except if the SYSTEM ALLOWED IT..... it's soooo simple I fail to see how people don't understand this and prefer to "blame their neighbor"
A simple example of system failure..
In my state shooting off fireworks is "illegal" but oddly enough not illegal to sell, just use. There available everywhere here. Grocerie stores ect...... system failure. Everyone buys them and uses them but it's illegal. someone gets hurt.. blame the victim or the system???
both comes to my mind but the "system" is the MAIN protector based on studies, common law ect, which failed....so i side w/ blaming the system mostly....

Last edited by jeffkrol; 04-12-2010 at 04:59 PM.
04-12-2010, 05:27 PM   #15
Site Supporter
Otis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis FanOtis Fan
Site Supporter
Rupert's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,123
Let's face it, there are dumb people out there that are unable to think for themselves, trust the guy in the suit, and believe someone is watching their back. How many...well, how many do you know? I see plenty of them and during the Housing Boom Realtors and Mortgage Brokers were paying good money just to find them and bring them in for a new home. I have a relative, I'm sad to say, that made a fortune, and not a small one, by sending out crews in LA to find him new
"homeowners". He made many millions off of the loans he wrote, knowing that the bulk of them were bogus. It happened all across America, and you can blame Barney, but it is the Republicans that are now dragging their feet on new regulations and reform.

While we are at it, how do you think the Big Banks have recovered so quickly? Fees on more dumb people are making them hundreds of millions.
Example:A part time worker I use at times is "disabled" along with his wife. They get a combined $1100. or so a month from the Govt....it is direct deposited into their bank. They have a debit card with overdraft protection, at the banks insistence. About a week after they get their checks they are broke and begin to use their debit cards with the overdraft protection....at $36. per occurrence. The bank will let them do this until they reach an mount equal to their next months checks, then they cut them off. He wanted to borrow money from me within a few days of his last checks, and when I asked him why, I found out that his fees from last month had eaten up $756. from his newest checks before he ever got them. No, I did not loan him money, and no, you can't fix stupid, but if you are a bank you can get rich off of it. Just like housing, there is a new way every day to skin a fool.
Regards!
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
business, change, hope
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sports "Highside Exit" took 1st Place in DPReview "Missed It by THAT much, Part 1" Challenge MRRiley Post Your Photos! 27 02-21-2010 08:26 PM
"CHANGE" - a 48hr film challenge project, shot on K-X greenless Video and Pentax HDSLRs 6 02-16-2010 06:36 PM
"Hey, hold my beer ... watch this!" J.Scott Post Your Photos! 2 09-12-2008 09:22 AM
"Hunger for a DA*50-135?" or "The DA*50-135 as a bird lens!" or "Iron age birds?" Douglas_of_Sweden Post Your Photos! 4 08-13-2008 06:09 AM
"Hey" from Jackson, MS USA jteel3 Welcomes and Introductions 3 02-05-2007 10:07 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:02 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top