[Parallax]

Thank God Obama is continuing the wiretapping policy. Maybe we will be able to stop future terrorist attacks. One of the only things (along with punching the tickets of 3 Somali pirates) that he has done and I agree with.

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." ~ Ben Franklin

[seacapt]

I would rather french kiss Hillary Clinton than .......

Ewwwwwwwww! That's nasty!

[Borislav]

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither." ~ Ben Franklin

That is a good point, stated by a man much wiser than myself.

Of course we have to remember that he was not dealing with people who were willing to kill themselves in order to kill as many others as humanly possible. In addition to that, these lovely folks can and will obtain modern technology that did not exist in his time.

I guess I am conflicted on the issue...

Help me out here...

---------- Post added 04-21-2010 at 09:47 AM ----------

Given that dudes like you are usually the ones who are most into the whole SLIPPERY SLOPE!! argument, this is really surprising to me.

But you've proven yourself to be incapable of formulating a logically coherent stance on anything, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I am a common sense guy, not an ideologue. Wiretapping Islamic radicals who may pose a threat to our country seems logical to me even if it does not fall into the line libertarian/conservative line of thought.

Sometimes logic and a sense of self-preservation must prevail over political ideals.

If you think this is not a logical argument you are off your rocker...

[deadwolfbones]

I am a common sense guy, not an ideologue. Wiretapping Islamic radicals who may pose a threat to our country seems logical to me even if it does not fall into the line libertarian/conservative line of thought.

Sometimes logic and a sense of self-preservation must prevail over political ideals.

If you think this is not a logical argument you are off your rocker...

It's not logical because you're conveniently (and somewhat bizarrely, for a "libertarian") ignoring the very real threat that this wiretapping could be used against reg'lar ol' American citizens such as me and you, in the service of your broader anything-liberals-protest-must-be-good worldview.

[jeffkrol]

I am a common sense guy, not an ideologue. Wiretapping Islamic radicals who may pose a threat to our country seems logical to me even if it does not fall into the line libertarian/conservative line of thought.

Sometimes logic and a sense of self-preservation must prevail over political ideals.

If you think this is not a logical argument you are off your rocker...

It all depends on who you trust to "draw the line" I guess which is what makes all of it very difficult.. I do not trust "your kind" to not cross the line..... sorry.
And as others have pointed out it is almost human nature to stretch the line as you go along...
It wasn't wiretapping per se but the lack of "warrants for it"....... Tapping someone just because you suspect them is not the same as tapping someone w/ proof of intent to allow the tap...... Not much different then randomly tapping the general population to find something.. Get lucky and find something so you tap more... it is cyclical and self fulfilling since someone somewhere is always doing something you think is "wrong" You slide right into secret police territory.....

[deadwolfbones]

It wasn't wiretapping per se but the lack of "warrants for it"....... Tapping someone just because you suspect them is not the same as tapping someone w/ proof of intent to allow the tap...... Not much different then randomly tapping the general population to find something.. Get lucky and find something so you tap more... it is cyclical and self fulfilling since someone somewhere is always doing something you think is "wrong" You slide right into secret police territory.....

Yes, this.

[Parallax]

.......................
I guess I am conflicted on the issue...

Help me out here..

Boris, I would try to help you out but I'm a little conflicted myself on that issue.

[jeffkrol]

Boris, I would try to help you out but I'm a little conflicted myself on that issue.

right, can't just throw rights out willy nilly can we...... or can we?
Your score (just kidding)
people 1.. "terrorists" 0
decent people 0... Animal sadists 1.....

[Parallax]

right, can't just throw rights out willy nilly can we...... or can we?
Your score (just kidding)
people 1.. "terrorists" 0
decent people 0... Animal sadists 1.....

500 aint a bad average!

[jeffkrol]

500 aint a bad average!

We need a tie breaker........
Anyways as to AZ if you have a good tan, better carry a wallet......

"There will be many, many people, American citizens, whose rights will be violated when the police come to them for no other reason than to check their immigration status," he told Fox News.

The Arizona bill would create a new misdemeanor crime for failing to have an alien registration document; allow officers to arrest anyone unable to show documents proving their legal residence in the country; and allow people to sue over claims that a government agency is hindering immigration enforcement.

FOXNews.com - Arizona Voters Support Controversial Immigration Bill, Poll Finds


http://www.macon.com/2010/04/20/1100757/la-cardinal-nazism-in-arizona.html

But Mahony, whose archdiocese has a huge Hispanic immigrant population, said the Arizona Legislature was passing "the country's most retrogressive, mean-spirited, and useless anti-immigrant law."
Similar laws that were previously passed in other states have been repealed or struck down in the courts, he said.
"The tragedy of the law is its totally flawed reasoning: that immigrants come to our country to rob, plunder, and consume public resources," Mahony said.
"I can't imagine Arizonans now reverting to German Nazi and Russian Communist techniques whereby people are required to turn one another in to the authorities on any suspicion of documentation," the cardinal said. "Are children supposed to call 911 because one parent does not have proper papers? Are family members and neighbors now supposed to spy on one another, create total distrust across neighborhoods and communities, and report people because of suspicions based upon appearance?"

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/2010/04/would-ariz-immigration-bill-...profiling.html

[Borislav]

I don't know guys. Both sides make very good points here.

I have to step aside and just say that I am not 100% on this issue.

I just don't know.

While wiretapping Islamists seems logical it can also be used by a corrupt government for their own insidious purpose.

I guess I am very conflicted here.

[deadwolfbones]

Well, I'm glad you're thinking about it.

[jeffkrol]

I don't know guys. Both sides make very good points here.

I have to step aside and just say that I am not 100% on this issue.

I just don't know.

While wiretapping Islamists seems logical it can also be used by a corrupt government for their own insidious purpose.

I guess I am very conflicted here.

Welcome to America........

[Rupert]

I don't know guys. Both sides make very good points here.

I have to step aside and just say that I am not 100% on this issue.

I just don't know.

While wiretapping Islamists seems logical it can also be used by a corrupt government for their own insidious purpose.

I guess I am very conflicted here.

If done within the framework of the Constitution, wiretapping is a great tool and good method for dealing with criminals and terrorists. When the Constitution is bypassed as Jesus George did, you can rapidly end up with a scenario like this......

I'm in competition with Mr Boris for an important business contract........I know dirt on him tax wise, but can't prove it.....I also have some other information that would be highly detrimental to his character and potential business opportunities. I am also a large donor to the party in power, and I use my connections to run up a false alarm in relationship to terrorist activity with high ranking govt officials. They start snooping, and find no terrorist activity but do find tax evasion and child porn ......Do you think they won't use what they found to alert other agencies that will pursue these activities, resulting in charges being filed, and me winning the bid? Think it doesn't happen Mr Boris.....you had better think again. Fishing expeditions are very real, and very dangerous too.
Regards!

[yucatanPentax]

That's just it deadwolfbones. I have never been wiretapped. In fact the only people who were targeted were folks who were suspected of terrorist activity.

I will fight to protect my civil rights, but I kind of need to be alive to care. Like I said, a dirty bomb can really ruin a libertarians day.

The bolded statement above is categorically untrue. In fact, since Boris is seen here using the Internet toobs, he can be sure that he has been wiretapped. As has been documented in discovery papers and testimony in Federal court, there is a cross-tap on Verizon & AT&T Internet traffic in the USA and all - not a little, not some, not only the Terruhists, but all - all, all, all, as in 100% of domestic Internet traffic has a copy spun off for the NSA.

(smile! you're words are being scanned by supercomputers!)

That program has not ended since Bush has left office. In fact, it is one of the thorniest thorns pestering civil libertarians since Obama came to office: That he refuses to cancel this obscene project.

"Need to be alive to care" ... hahahaha.... that's a good one.

On what day - even the worst day in the nation's history, which was the surprise attack on 9/11 under W's watch, was the entire population of the United States even close to being wiped out? Ooops.... none. Never happened. Ain't gonna happen.

Why? Terrorists exist to inspire Terror! Boris here is quaking in his boots about losing his life. "need to be alive to care" He's already surrendered to the terrorists - he's become terrified! Way to go Boris. Give the sleazy bastards a win, why don't you!?

Yes, yes, yes, they may come up with some sort of crazy thing that will have you rolling out your huge case of plastic wrap and duct-taping all your winders, but heck, Boris, it will only be YOUR city, not the entire nation. You see? A dozen or two dirty terrorists just cannot GET all of us at once. It isn't physically possible. That. is. why. they. are. terrorists. If there were lots of them, they'd do something else.

How to frustrate a terrorist? Keep a stiff upper lip and think of England. Ummm.... errr.... I mean, Refuse to Be Terrorized!

As much as you want to whine to me about 'the need to be afraid' and change our entire lives because of a couple dozen (or, hell, a couple hundred) malcontents, it just ain't gonna happen. Wouldn't be prudent.

Refuse to change your lives and your laws because of terrorists and you HAVE beaten them. It really IS that simple.

No terror = no win. But Boris wants them to win. Boris wants us all to be afraid.
F it. Just F that. mmmKay?
A true American is not afraid of a bunch of sleazeball murders. Our country. Our laws. Our Constitutional Rights do not need to change because they've succeeded in murdering people. It's still the USA where the Constitution & the Bill of Rights is, and should be, Supreme Law of the land.