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04-22-2010, 12:10 PM   #1
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We don't need any healthcare reform..

Exclusive: WellPoint routinely targets breast cancer patients | Reuters
QuoteQuote:
Karen L. Pollitz, a research professor at the Health Policy Institute at Georgetown University, offers one possible explanation: "It is important for these companies' profit margins that they get rid of policyholders with expensive diseases," she said. "If one company were to stop, it would no longer be competitive with the others. They argue they have to do this to stay in the game."

The investigation last year by the House Energy and Commerce Committee determined that WellPoint and two of the nation's other largest insurance companies -- UnitedHealth Group Inc and Assurant Health, part of Assurant Inc -- made at least $300 million by improperly rescinding more than 19,000 policyholders over one five-year period.

WellPoint itself profited by more than $128 million from the practice, and the committee suggested that the figure might be largely understated because the company refused to provide information about cancellations by several subsidiaries.
now for one teeny stupid response quote.......
QuoteQuote:
There are many like me who are still covered and I am satisfied with my policy.

Your report should be balance, I dont doubt this story but it is one sided.
We really are getting that stupid aren't we......

04-22-2010, 01:12 PM   #2
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I just wonder why does this suprise anyone? Does anyone actually think that a company will continue to offering insurance if they are forced to knowingly cover someone that they know will cost them more in expenses then they make in income from that person?I know I sound heartless and I am sure you will say what a typical Republican attitude but it is the current business structure you can not deny it.
04-22-2010, 02:10 PM   #3
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The current health insurance system works very well for the vast majority of Americans. Obama's complete overhaul is like running out of gas and selling the car rather than filling the gas tank again. It's stupid. But he isn't stupid. So why is he doing it? There has to be another reason.

Simple. Control someone's access to health care and you control every aspect of their life.
04-22-2010, 02:14 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by GingeM Quote
The current health insurance system works very well for the vast majority of Americans. Obama's complete overhaul is like running out of gas and selling the car rather than filling the gas tank again. It's stupid. But he isn't stupid. So why is he doing it? There has to be another reason.

Simple. Control someone's access to health care and you control every aspect of their life.
Wow, really missed the point of the OP, eh?

These abuses are coming under the current health insurance system, which you love so much. If you were covered by Wellpoint and developed lung cancer, for example, this same computer algorithm might be used to single you out for a fictitious fraud investigation and rescind your coverage under dubious circumstances. You really want that?

04-22-2010, 02:21 PM   #5
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No... The point was not missed at all. That's part of the "broken" bit I referred to by using the phrase "for the vast majority". It's the "empty gas tank"... You know, the bit you want to sell the car for...

Please, learn to read and comprehend what is written rather than just crayoning away, there's a good chap.
04-22-2010, 02:49 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by GingeM Quote
No... The point was not missed at all. That's part of the "broken" bit I referred to by using the phrase "for the vast majority". It's the "empty gas tank"... You know, the bit you want to sell the car for...

Please, learn to read and comprehend what is written rather than just crayoning away, there's a good chap.
Thanks for the condescension.

The system is fundamentally flawed and needs to be reworked from the ground up. Unfortunately, the scaremongering machine on the right didn't allow the revision to go as far as it should have (single payer, like the rest of the civilized world), and we ended up with a halfassed, compromised plan. Still, it's better than what we had.

Anyway, the OP was not about the administration's new plan. It was about commonplace abuses under the current one. Let's try to stay on topic.
04-22-2010, 02:52 PM   #7
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(single payer, like the rest of the civilized world)
You've never lived outside the USA then... In one of those "civilized" countries.
04-22-2010, 03:03 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by GingeM Quote
You've never lived outside the USA then... In one of those "civilized" countries.
Hey, I can roll my eyes with the best of 'em, but it's not exactly a good argument.

04-22-2010, 03:08 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by GingeM Quote

Simple. Control someone's access to health care and you control every aspect of their life.
Did you really think about this? How many people are "controlled" by their "job" because they don't want to risk (or can't find) losing their insurance.. How many are "controlled" about using it for the same risks... You couldn't see control if it bit you in the arse...
Besides it's also heartless BTW......
04-22-2010, 03:17 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
The system is fundamentally flawed and needs to be reworked from the ground up.
I will stipulate to that.

QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
Unfortunately, the scaremongering machine on the right didn't allow the revision to go as far as it should have
Please explain how the right prevented a Democrat president, and a super-majority democrat congress from passing anything.
04-22-2010, 03:34 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by GingeM Quote
You've never lived outside the USA then... In one of those "civilized" countries.
Some of us (like myself) have lived in both and have posted experiences in countless threads on this forum.....and this debate is getting a little boring. The US "can" offer the best health care available but on average it provides mediocre care as compared to other non-third world countries. That's because it is provided health care as a business and not as a service.



"The United States spends far more per capita on health care than any comparable country. In fact, the gap is so enormous that a recent University of California, San Francisco, study estimates that the United States would save over $161 billion every year in paperwork alone if it switched to a single payer system like Canada's."

US insurance companies are the sole problem impacting the quality of US care. I might pay quite a bit in taxes in Canada, but at least I get something out of it. You pay much more than I do for health care....too bad it goes to the multinationals instead of health care.
04-22-2010, 03:39 PM   #12
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deadwolfbones:

So your avoidance of the issue answers the question. Brilliant, try not to be so transparent.

So, you have a view of single payer health care based on no experience but some handy dandy promises made by, admittedly, a smooth talking politician. I, on the other hand, have lived, (for more than twenty years each), in both systems. I can assure you that, when you need it, the US system is better - far better. Now, you can splutter and pontificate all you like but you know you will be talking from nothing more than your imagination.

A couple examples that might help "clue you in":-

1. In my father's town of 30,000 people there is no ambulance or hospital. The hospital is ten miles north of his house and the ambulance is based ten miles south. (People don't work in government because they are smart).

2. The Canadian system is consistently "dissed" by the very politicians that support the single payer system by them coming to the USA when they need complicated health care quickly.

The first, you'll have to take as read but I have no reason to lie - If I wanted socialized health care I'd have stayed at home. In 2 you can Google this stuff easily, (I won't do it for you because I'm getting fed up of working so that others can benefit from my sweat without lifting a finger to help themselves).

It is, frankly, ridiculous for those that have never experienced "nationalized/single payer" health care to argue with those that have. But I know, you will anyway - because experience doesn't count...

Jeff:-
QuoteQuote:
Besides it's also heartless BTW......
Are you a twelve year old girl??? Life isn't fair. Some people are born with a heart defect, some with Down's Syndrome, others are just plain ugly. By your statement we should start legislating genetics.

Do you see how silly you sound now?

SMC:

QuoteQuote:
That's because it is provided health care as a business and not as a service.
So you'll answer my two, (2), above then in a logical manner and without quoting the WHO.

Edited to add deadwolfbones to the top of the post

Last edited by GingeM; 04-22-2010 at 03:46 PM.
04-22-2010, 03:44 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I will stipulate to that.

Please explain how the right prevented a Democrat president, and a super-majority democrat congress from passing anything.
Perhaps you haven't watched FOX News, or read the Washington Times or Wall Street Journal in the past year or so, but the right kicked up such an unsubstatiated fuss over the whole idea of socialized/single-payer health care that otherwise forward-thinking people were scared out of their wits and showed as much in the polls.

Could the Obama administration have ramrodded such a plan through? Possibly. Would it have caused an unprecedented, uninformed, catastrophic fracas—about a hundred times worse than the one we got—thanks to the media types mentioned above? Indubitably. Would it have ruined any chance at bipartisan governing? Irrevocably. So Obama and his guys steered as centrist a course as possible in hopes of shutting up the idiots and maintaining some ability to work with the redshirts across the aisle. It's politics, bro.
04-22-2010, 03:47 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by GingeM Quote
So your avoidance of the issue answers the question. Brilliant, try not to be so transparent.

So, you have a view of single payer health care based on no experience but some handy dandy promises made by, admittedly, a smooth talking politician. I, on the other hand, have lived, (for more than twenty years each), in both systems. I can assure you that, when you need it, the US system is better - far better. Now, you can splutter and pontificate all you like but you know you will be talking from nothing more than your imagination.

A couple examples that might help "clue you in":-

1. In my father's town of 30,000 people there is no ambulance or hospital. The hospital is ten miles north of his house and the ambulance is based ten miles south. (People don't work in government because they are smart).

2. The Canadian system is consistently "dissed" by the very politicians that support the single payer system by them coming to the USA when they need complicated health care quickly.

The first, you'll have to take as read but I have no reason to lie - If I wanted socialized health care I'd have stayed at home. In 2 you can Google this stuff easily, (I won't do it for you because I'm getting fed up of working so that others can benefit from my sweat without lifting a finger to help themselves).

It is, frankly, ridiculous for those that have never experienced "nationalized/single payer" health care to argue with those that have. But I know, you will anyway - because experience doesn't count...

Jeff:-
Are you a twelve year old girl??? Life isn't fair. Some people are born with a heart defect, some with Down's Syndrome, others are just plain ugly. By your statement we should start legislating genetics.

Do you see how silly you sound now?

SMC:

So you'll answer my two, (2), above then in a logical manner and without quoting the WHO.
Let me ask you this.. what would you add to "fix" the broken part or do you let people die because to you that's.. errr fair???
Guess if you and your family were in the World Trade Center when it went down I should just say "bad luck old chap"......"wrong place, wrong time...
Only here we are talking about a disease, not even man made.....
04-22-2010, 03:53 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by gokenin Quote
I just wonder why does this suprise anyone? Does anyone actually think that a company will continue to offering insurance if they are forced to knowingly cover someone that they know will cost them more in expenses then they make in income from that person?I know I sound heartless and I am sure you will say what a typical Republican attitude but it is the current business structure you can not deny it.
This is an argument for profit-based insurance spending billions to advertise and lobby itself as 'care' *why* again?

And telling us that 'we the people' can't be allowed to choose to use a government that *is* ours to not be that way, or... all this 'competition' will result in people 'choosing' ....what, again?

This is Private Insurance: "Accept Our Overpriced Futility, Pay Us To Maybe Sometimes Cover You, It'll Keep You Free."

(As long as public options are prohibited by government in the name of the 'Free Market!'.)


What?

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 04-22-2010 at 03:59 PM.
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