[gokenin]

I think this closing of the subforum by Adam should be a wake up call to all of us that are regulars in our little subforum. We all know that the debates can get a little heated along party lines but we have to remember that it is about the debate. We are all adults here so I think that we can pass on the name calling that has happened of late in our threads. I will not deny that some of the name calling has been started by some newcomers into the forum that may be trying to make their marks but I think we can all behave can't we.
I know that I constantly bump head with alot of the more liberal orientated in the forums but I think and I hope that those discussions are seen as at least civil. We all have our opinions but I do think that we need to be more willing to listen to the other side of the fence who knows maybe us thick headed regulars can ever learn something from time to time.
Lets hope that when Adam opens the forum up again this afternoon that maybe we can be a little more civil and stop with the name calling and behaving like we did when we were in third grade ( all except Rupert who was learning Constitutional law that is. Just kidding)

Jon

[Parallax]

Well put Jon. Thanks for the post.

[Gene Temple]

I watch from the outside, and not really into or have the time to dive into discussions of such emotional attachment. I spend most of my time stealing souls with my camera (theres a bunch in there) and jamming AM talk radio with my own programming..........just kidding. I never understood why there is a politics and religeon section to be honest. Those two high emotional attachment topics are going to attract that kind of response every time. Its unvoidable. Like putting two pitbulls in a room............sooner or later they are gonna fight. I say scrap those areas and maybe put up something more useful and productive.

[Parallax]

I watch from the outside, and not really into or have the time to dive into discussions of such emotional attachment. I spend most of my time stealing souls with my camera (theres a bunch in there) and jamming AM talk radio with my own programming..........just kidding. I never understood why there is a politics and religeon section to be honest. Those two high emotional attachment topics are going to attract that kind of response every time. Its unvoidable. Like putting two pitbulls in a room............sooner or later they are gonna fight. I say scrap those areas and maybe put up something more useful and productive.

Gene, the reason for P-R is to provide a pressure valve. It has, in that respect, been a success in that there is far less bickering in the other forums than there used to be. Some people (see my sig line ) like to mix it up once in a while. We just need to make it more civil than it has been lately.

[seacapt]

I watch from the outside, and not really into or have the time to dive into discussions of such emotional attachment. I spend most of my time stealing souls with my camera (theres a bunch in there) and jamming AM talk radio with my own programming..........just kidding. I never understood why there is a politics and religeon section to be honest. Those two high emotional attachment topics are going to attract that kind of response every time. Its unvoidable. Like putting two pitbulls in a room............sooner or later they are gonna fight. I say scrap those areas and maybe put up something more useful and productive.

What you are missing here Gene is the fact that the P&R SubForum provides a place to contain the back biting and flaming contests that go on in every forum on the net. There are some of us who enjoy it and alot of members who enjoy watching it without participating.
These days P&R is even completely isolated in it's own subforum rather than a part of GT as it used to be. If the conversations in P&R offend or upset you then please just don't click on that subforum.

[Gene Temple]

I was (and to some respect still am) a Chief Petty Officer in the US Navy, nothing offends me. All due respect, from what I've seen in those two areas with several exceptions of course, is one-ups-manship and baiting. The one thing we all agree on is our love and respect for the Pentax products and they have nothing to do with the existence or nonexistence of God or a particular view of what is and what ain't in politics. Even with perfectly polite and thoughtful posts to keep it civil, somebody is going to read it differently and throw a barb meant to incite, inflame, or attempt to destroy the credibility of the other. I think containment of the back biting and name calling could be omitted altogether if those areas weren't there. I can't see a flame war happening in "Pentax Film SLR" or "Post Processing" about religeon or politics. If it did the moderator could nip it in the bud quickly. I'm not going running away just because there is that element in this forum. I chose to come here for different reasons. Hope y'all can get along, but I doubt it'll last long. If you wrassle with hogs, even if you win, you still smell like @#$%.

[lithos]

You guys can see all the
"Pretty Colors" you want

Hey, that's the only reason I go in there. It's like a blue-ringed octopus.

[seacapt]

So what we have here is the new Romper Room, with all those PrettyColors and soft spoken little Mods in frilly little pink outfits to comfort the little weasels that like to incite, inflame, and infuriate others, but can't take the slightest word of criticism themselves?

People come over here spreading racism, bigotry, and their mean spirited political ideology, and then they go ballistic if accused of being the racists and bigots that they are........now we are supposed to comfort them and make them feel at ease in their sickness?

Not for me.......if you can't confront these posters with a taste of their own bitter rhetoric, you are just furthering their cause and broadcasting on another band for the Talk Jockies of the airways that have helped divide America right down the center. You guys can see all the
"Pretty Colors" you want, but the world out there is ugly, and denial is not a river in Egypt.

I expect this post will also be "edited" for me by a Mod in his little Frilly Pink Outfit so that others here won't get their little Twinkle Toes mashed?

I'll just be returning to the photo sections here, this place will no longer be worth the time if we have to coddle the sick perverts that pop up every so often.....just an idea Adam, why not pipe in soft music so that when you open a thread you are hit with the soothing sounds of ocean waves or wind through the trees.....maybe some little pop up windows that show flowing fields of Wheat....
Best Regards!

One last question before I go....will the Mods now be Breast Feeding and Diaper Changing too?

Good Morning Rupert!
You ar getting pretty good with those crayons. Nice colors and you stayed in the lines too.
In fact I was so impressed I gave you Rep Points for the post!
Doesn't that make you feel all better now?

[Jasvox]

I wonder how many web forums which are political, religious, or otherwise themed feature a "Photography" section? I find in most situations, heated topics aren't so much a pressure valve for a community, rather a pressure cooker...and perhaps has led to a a few soap operas from time to time. Does this overall forum really need that or should we focus on keeping this a "Photography" forum website?

Jason

[Adam]

First off, the decision to close it was made by the whole moderator team, not just me. I hope that this serves as a moment of reflection and that you guys end up benefiting from it great post Jon!

I was (and to some respect still am) a Chief Petty Officer in the US Navy, nothing offends me. All due respect, from what I've seen in those two areas with several exceptions of course, is one-ups-manship and baiting. The one thing we all agree on is our love and respect for the Pentax products and they have nothing to do with the existence or nonexistence of God or a particular view of what is and what ain't in politics. Even with perfectly polite and thoughtful posts to keep it civil, somebody is going to read it differently and throw a barb meant to incite, inflame, or attempt to destroy the credibility of the other. I think containment of the back biting and name calling could be omitted altogether if those areas weren't there. I can't see a flame war happening in "Pentax Film SLR" or "Post Processing" about religeon or politics. If it did the moderator could nip it in the bud quickly. I'm not going running away just because there is that element in this forum. I chose to come here for different reasons. Hope y'all can get along, but I doubt it'll last long. If you wrassle with hogs, even if you win, you still smell like @#$%.

It did happen. It happened to me in a thread a year or two ago about where to buy bulk film. I gave an answer and somehow I became accused of bashing gays and lesbians.

[Ben_Edict]

It is not about harmony, it is not about speaking softly it is not about being political correct nor about not being able to participate in open debate. BUT some of the posters simply continuosly did not debate but only denounce, denote and ridicule people with other beliefs.

Personal insults up to the level, that some threads were openly only started to denote some singled out person, where not side effects, but obviously the only aim of some posters.

I found and find that development in the sub-forum completely disagreeable and fully support Adam's decision to close it down. That forum would only lead to too much aggression and personal violations, which in the long time will harm the whole community.

If anything like such a sub-forum is reopend again I would expect strong guide lines, which allow immediate cancellation of membership, if personal insult instead of fierce discussion is obvious.

Ben

[Rupert]

It did happen. It happened to me in a thread a year or two ago about where to buy bulk film. I gave an answer and somehow I became accused of bashing gays and lesbians.

So my question to you George....did you live through it or did you "pass away"? Assuming it was the Ratlady (Bless her heart!), did she live through it or did she fade away never to be heard from again?
I know I have been plenty rough with you George, but never heard you squeal like a little piggy....I guess that is because I have been assuming you are man enough to be here.......and I think my assumption has been correct......with you and most others here.
I haven't seen any vulgar language here or threats of violence(well, there was that post by Gooshin about D*ick S**cking, but it didn't kill me, did it?)....indeed there is no room for such words here, but if we are all just going to meet up and scratch each others backs...what is the point? It appears to me that the few that can't win their argument or can't articulate their views are asking for an unfair advantage, when in fact they should not be here to begin with. Maybe we will see a ruling where High School players are allowed to play in the NFL....but no one that is a Pro can touch them? I know the world is screwed up, but I didn't think I would see PC come to this Forum........Good Lord! It has happened, hasn't it!
Regards!

[Ratmagiclady]

Well, I take a couple of days off from the Pit, and look what happens.

Just as well, I suppose. I was really questioning the value of the place in the first place, ...but speaking of what Graphics seems to have brought up, the fact is, he was one of the people bringing his politics all *over* the forum, (in one case somehow linking to a hate-site call it an oversight, but he seems to run around accusing me of being 'on drugs,' and all the other reasons he's all alone there on my ignore list. the age of some people bringing the politics *everywhere,* if nothing else via their signatures. )

Frankly, I hope we *don't* see a return to the times where, well, look at the same thing here right now on this thread. There's Rupert and graphics going about it, I say, hey, Rupert, there you go again with using the homophobic and misogynist stuff to attack third parties... (Once again blaming me for the whole thing when I haven't even *been* here, I notice.) Commence furball.

Let's *not* do that.

It's boring.

I *had* been thinking the Politics and Religion board may have started to run its course, for what it could do, and is now just attracting more of the same. Certainly don't think it's really good for the forums in general. But I would like to see General Talk stay friendly... And by this, I don't mean, 'Hate on liberals or whoever and call it 'off topic' when called on it.'

[Ira]

At least this site tolerates different views. I used to go to a barbecue site that was 90% conservative, and let's just say that I stood out a little.

My politics are weird though. I'm liberal in most areas, but conservative in others. These differing views come from an extremely astute mind developed through a combination of a native higher IQ, superior reasoning skills, and sheer and utter genius--something which most posters like yourselves lack. But believe me, it ain't all a bed of roses.

Anyway, there was one particular guy who claimed everything he Q'd was superb. I mean, according to him, Julia Child and Emeril Lagasse sucked. But how the heck do I know that for sure, and that he's not just a loudmouth? My internet connection doesn't permit taste-testing.

So during one of these boasting outbreaks of his, he said something like, "There were 100 guests, and every single one of them said it was the best thing that they had ever eaten!"

I innocuously joked, "I wanna see affidavits!" And was kicked out.

Here, the proof is in the pudding--we show our shots. So what does this have to do with the temporary closing of the forum?

Absolutely nothing.