[Ratmagiclady]

With all due respect, technically I am not sure this IS true. I believe she WAS the flagship of whatever the last fleet to which she was last attached, and I know that she is still commissioned, BUT, I am not sure that she really is a flagship now, ceremonial or not.

This is not a challenge. My heart is certainly in the proposition. My head cannot find proof. The only reference to USS Constitution as a (let alone THE) ceremonial flagship is some Star Trek material.

I believe that technically, USS Constitution is our Ship of State. Not the same thing. Typically a ship of state may well be a "flagship" in the common sense of an Ocean Liner that is a Ship of State (Queen Mary was a Ship of State and certainly was a "flagship" in the common sense). However, USS Constitution is a COMMISSIONED and active military ship, and I would argue that if she is not a flagship the strict Naval sense.

See: USS Constitution Designated America's Ship of State



woof!

When I said 'Ceremonial honor,' I wasn't talking about the technical term of 'flagship.' (She actually *was,* first of the Mediterranean fleet, and then I think of the whole enchilada in the War of 1812, but the Navy's of course, actually made up of many fleets.)

In terms of the 'popular sense of the term,' (all Star Trek aside,) she's been billed as such. (Correctly or not, I couldn't verify.)

In the strict naval sense, no 'Flagship of the Navy' actually exists, anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised either way. (Frankly, I thought the ceremonial role is why she's still a commissioned warship, anyway, ) But, call her 'Ship Of State,' I think that's what that means these days, anyway. At least in Boston, we're proud of her that way.

[Blue]

The USN is steeped in tradition and ceremony. There 52 WWII subs still officially listed as "On Patrol" although they know they aren't coming back.

[B Grace]

I would certainly be in favor of USS Missouri being considered the USN flagship but I don't think that's technically possible. The former USS Missouri...

Historic Naval Ships Visitors Guide - USS Missouri

...is now forever standing watch over the Arizona whereas the soon-to-be USS Missouri...

USS Missouri Submarine (SSN 780) Commissioning Committee

...is maybe not what many would consider a flagship. I'm still proud to be a sponsor of the commissioning committee though.

[Mike Cash]

I believe that technically, USS Constitution is our Ship of State.

I was under the impression "ship of state" was a metaphor and not an actual vessel. Designating some actual vessel a "Ship of State" due to mistaken common usage would be no different than others' misuse/misunderstanding of the term "flagship".

(Another misused term that bugs me is when people think "corpus delicti" refers to a murdered corpse).

[woof]

I was under the impression "ship of state" was a metaphor and not an actual vessel. Designating some actual vessel a "Ship of State" due to mistaken common usage would be no different than others' misuse/misunderstanding of the term "flagship".

Your mistake Mike, not mine.

I posted the following link previously.

USS Constitution Designated America's Ship of State

woof!

[BillM]

Hi everyone,
Went with my dad to tin can reunion in Bremerton,Wash. few years back
had the chance to see 3 Iowa class BB's side by side, recall chat with
an ensign about big Mo,dad had. Ensign said "when she goes, she'll be
stricken from the records"(moving to Pearl) not sure what he meant.
Also talked about flags of both Nimitz and Macarthur flying at same time
during ceremony. Way I understand is, flags of rank flying together like
that, is unique to our history.

Being from Missouri, Constitution has always been my gal ,always will be.
She means alot to us all.

[Blue]

Hi everyone,
Went with my dad to tin can reunion in Bremerton,Wash. few years back
had the chance to see 3 Iowa class BB's side by side, recall chat with
an ensign about big Mo,dad had. Ensign said "when she goes, she'll be
stricken from the records"(moving to Pearl) not sure what he meant.
Also talked about flags of both Nimitz and Macarthur flying at same time
during ceremony. Way I understand is, flags of rank flying together like
that, is unique to our history.

Being from Missouri, Constitution has always been my gal ,always will be.
She means alot to us all.

Being stricken meant she was de-commissioned and also not in mothballs since she was transferred to the non-profit organization in Pearl to serve as a museum. Nimitz and MacArthur and equivalent rank in the Navy and Army respectively in the Pacific Theater.

[BillM]

Thanks Blue, and I apoligize to the general for doing that to his good name.

[woof]

call her 'Ship Of State,' I think that's what that means these days, anyway. At least in Boston, we're proud of her that way.

As well you should be. Though I personally am not from Boston, I am certainly proud of her, no matter her title.

FWIW, my family is Bostonian in origin. One of my ancestors landed at Nantasket Point at the entrance of Boston Harbor on March 20, 1630.

In any event, I did not mean to offend anyone with a discussion of the finer points. Any to whom I have given offense have my unqualified apology.

woof!

[MsAnnieLou]

The term "Navy Flag Ship" is still used today, but not as one singular ship. When a group of ships deploy, for instance an ARG (Amphibious Readiness Group) which can consist of three to four ships, the Flag Ship is the one that carries the Commanding Officer for the ARG. For understanding reasons, I will use my son's ship, the USS Makin Island LHD8, When she deploys, two other ships deploy with her all three ships carrying MEU's (Marine Expeditionary Units). In the Makin Island ARG, they happen to carry the 11th MEU on board each ship. The USS Makin Island is considered the Flag Ship because COMPHIBRON is only on board this ship. COMPHIBRON= Commander Amphibious Squadron. The Makin Island is the "Lead Ship of PHIBRON 5," PHIBRON=Amphibious Squadron. PHIBRON 5 is one of four PHIBRON's based our of San Diego. The COMPHIBRON "units" in San Diego are PHIBRON One, Three, Five, and Seven. I'll attach a link for more information should anyone be interested.

U.S. Navy - Pacific Fleet Support Commands

Have a GREAT Navy Day!

Anna

[gaweidert]

A flagship does have to have certain capabilities. Room for the Admiral and his staff. Communications capabilities beyond what a "normal" ship would have. If you look at any of the remaining WWII battleships on display you will see that there is a complete duplicate set of quarters. One for the captain and one for the admiral. Ships like battleships and aircraft carriers even had their own custom china and silver service. When visiting foreign ports, it was customary to invite local dignitaries on board for a sot of mini state dinner.

An admiral and his staff are guests on a ship. They have no command authority over the captain or the crew and will, only in extreme circumstances, the interfere with the captain's day to day operation of the ship. The crew's training, combat efficiency etc. is the responsibility of the captain.

My father served on the USS Washington (BB56) in WWII. The only American battleship in WWII to engage an enemy battleship (IJN Kirishima) one on one and sink it. BTW here is a relic of that battle. It is a piece of fabric from one of the ships two spotter planes that was mounted on the back of the ship. Concussion from the firing of the 16" guns of the number 3 turret, where my father was a gun captain, totally destroyed one plane and damaged the other. My father kept is as a souvenir.

[bigdavephoto]

Referring to the original question posted by Reportage.


If there was a flagship for the entire US Navy, which vessel would it be?


The answer to that question would be, the last flagship of the entire US Navy was the USS Augusta.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Augusta_(CA-31)


The USS Augusta was the flagship used by both FDR and Harry S Truman while president. Because the president is the commander in chief of the armed forces, that would make whatever ship he used as a flagship the flagship of the Navy.


From what I can tell, Dwight D Eisenhower did not travel abroad on a US Navy ship so that is why, in my opinion, the USS Augusta was the last flagship of the entire navy.

[pathdoc]

The thing about a flagship is that it must not just be a capable combat vessel; it must also be able to house the facilities required for an Admiral or other theatre commander to most effectively control the forces under (mostly his) command for the task being undertaken.* Because this might under some circumstances include land operations and the need to integrate USN, USMC, and arguably sometimes USAF and Army assets, USS Blue Ridge is actually a pretty good choice.

For an Atlantic convoy commander, a large oiler or other replenishment ship is sometimes the best choice, as it makes (generally him) more aware of and sensitive to the vulnerabilities of the non-combat ships in the convoy. I note that there appear to have been quite a few senior admirals who stepped into their positions after a posting to such a vessel, as if that was in some way part of their preparation for the role (perhaps there are military sailors among us who might - inasmuch as security allows - flesh this out?).

For a hunter killer group dedicated purely to locating and sinking the enemy's surface assets, the biggest and most powerful ship in the group is generally the go-to, mostly because these are the ones with flag capability designed in from the start (aircraft carrier if present in the group; anti-aircraft guided missile cruiser if not).

However, there are exceptions. At the Battle of Jutland, the Grand Fleet flagship was HMS Iron Duke, and she was not the most powerful ship in the fleet (that honour belonged to the Queen Elizabeth Class battleships, on attachment to Beatty's battlecruisers).


* This is also why the generals of the First World War had their HQ in large chateaux; when you are commanding a front of many miles and the only reliable long-distance communications available to you are telephones and the telegraph, these are the places you need to be, where all the lines can be centralised and where your staff have lots of space to work. There are accounts of French generals setting up in school buildings, but then they had the problem of their staff - big, burly and back then uniformly male officers - trying to do their work at desks designed for twelve-year-old girls...

[wtlwdwgn]

If we want to impress our neighbors CVN78, USS Gerald R Ford, would do the trick.

[pathdoc]

If we want to impress our neighbors CVN78, USS Gerald R Ford, would do the trick.

That's "showing the flag", an altogether different mission.

It's a pity the big-gun ships have gone. Showing the flag has two purposes - to impress one's friends and to cow one's potential enemies. It used to be quite sobering back in the dreadnought era to know that the ship in your port or just off your beaches could deliver a couple of dozen high-explosive shells each weighing upwards of 1000 pounds every MINUTE, and that around 1500 of them lay in the magazines. Depending on which side you were on, such a thing was either extremely reassuring or very, very ominous.