Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version 1 Like Search this Thread
04-30-2010, 03:09 PM - 1 Like   #1
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 7,451
Arizona just keeps chuggin' along...

Arizona Grades Teachers on Fluency - WSJ.com

QuoteQuote:
Arizona Grades Teachers on Fluency
State Pushes School Districts to Reassign Instructors With Heavy Accents or Other Shortcomings in Their English
By MIRIAM JORDAN

PHOENIX—As the academic year winds down, Creighton School Principal Rosemary Agneessens faces a wrenching decision: what to do with veteran teachers whom the state education department says don't speak English well enough.

The Arizona Department of Education recently began telling school districts that teachers whose spoken English it deems to be heavily accented or ungrammatical must be removed from classes for students still learning English.

State education officials say the move is intended to ensure that students with limited English have teachers who speak the language flawlessly. But some school principals and administrators say the department is imposing arbitrary fluency standards that could undermine students by thinning the ranks of experienced educators.

The teacher controversy comes amid an increasingly tense debate over immigration. Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer this month signed the nation's toughest law to crack down on illegal immigrants. Critics charge that the broader political climate has emboldened state education officials to target immigrant teachers at a time when a budget crisis has forced layoffs.

"This is just one more indication of the incredible anti-immigrant sentiment in the state," said Bruce Merrill, a professor emeritus at Arizona State University who conducts public-opinion research.

Margaret Dugan, deputy superintendent of the state's schools, disagreed, saying that critics were "politicizing the educational environment."

In the 1990s, Arizona hired hundreds of teachers whose first language was Spanish as part of a broad bilingual-education program. Many were recruited from Latin America.

Then in 2000, voters passed a ballot measure stipulating that instruction be offered only in English. Bilingual teachers who had been instructing in Spanish switched to English.

Ms. Dugan said some schools hadn't been complying with the state law that made English the only language in the classroom. "Our job is to make sure the teachers are highly qualified in fluency of the English language. We know districts that have a fluency problem," she said.

Arizona's enforcement of fluency standards is based on an interpretation of the federal No Child Left Behind Act. That law states that for a school to receive federal funds, students learning English must be instructed by teachers fluent in the language. Defining fluency is left to each state, a spokesman for the U.S. Department of Education said.

"The teacher obviously must be fluent in every aspect of the English language," said Adela Santa Cruz, director of the Arizona education-department office charged with enforcing standards in classes for students with limited English.

The education department has dispatched evaluators to audit teachers across the state on things such as comprehensible pronunciation, correct grammar and good writing.

Teachers that don't pass muster may take classes or other steps to improve their English; if fluency continues to be a problem, Ms. Santa Cruz said, it is up to school districts to decide whether to fire teachers or reassign them to mainstream classes not designated for students still learning to speak English. However, teachers shouldn't continue to work in classes for non-native English speakers.

About 150,000 of Arizona's 1.2 million public-school students are classified as English Language Learners. Of the state's 247 school districts, about 20 have high concentrations of such students, the largest number of which are in the younger grades.

Nearly half the teachers at Creighton, a K-8 school in a Hispanic neighborhood of Phoenix, are native Spanish speakers. State auditors have reported to the district that some teachers pronounce words such as violet as "biolet," think as "tink" and swallow the ending sounds of words, as they sometimes do in Spanish.

These teachers "are very good educators who understand the culture" of their students," said Ms. Agneessens, Creighton's principal. "Teachers should speak grammatically correct English," she acknowledged, but added, "I object to the nuance of punishment for accent."

"It doesn't matter to me what the accent is; what matters is if my children are learning," said Luis Tavarez, the parent of sixth- and eighth-graders at Creighton.

"Student achievement and growth should inform teacher evaluations, not their accents," said Kent Scribner, superintendent of the Phoenix Union High School District.

John Hartsell, spokesman for the Arizona Education Association, a union that represents 34,000 teachers, said the recent focus on fluency was a distraction from more important issues. "This is not the time to be pressuring districts to deal with accents that have nothing to do with quality teaching; we are trying to figure out how to best fund operations" because of cuts in education, he said.

State education officials deny any discrimination against teachers, saying they are acting in students' best interest.

Ms. Santa Cruz, the state official, said evaluators weren't looking at accents alone. "We look at the best models for English pronunciation," she said. "It becomes an issue when pronunciation affects comprehensibility."

"Teachers should speak good grammar because kids pick up what they hear," said Johanna Haver, a proponent of English-language immersion who serves as an adviser to Arizona educators. "Where you draw the line is debatable."

After evaluation and despite completing an accent-reduction course, some teachers at Creighton were ruled still unsuited to teaching English-language learners.

That poses a dilemma for Ms. Agneessens, the principal. In kindergarten, three of four classes are for English-language learners. Two of those three classes are taught by immigrants whose English didn't pass muster.

Ms. Agneessens said she was trying to find a way to retain those two teachers by shifting them into classrooms not designated for English-language learners, even if that meant teaching a different grade. Both teachers declined to comment for this article.

Recently, she informed one experienced kindergarten teacher that she would have to be reassigned to a mainstream class in a higher grade in the fall, if she wished to remain at the school.

"We both cried," she said.


---------- Post added 04-30-2010 at 06:13 PM ----------

So:

While some other states/municipalities are working hard trying to raise money to increase the amount of bilingual education available from an early age in their public schools, Arizona passed a ballot measure to prohibit this type of teaching even though they had already recruited and trained the teachers to do it. And now they're "cracking down" on those teachers.

Unf••cking believable.

04-30-2010, 04:21 PM   #2
Ira
Inactive Account




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,216
What's the point of this post?

I really don't think it's radical or horrible to expect my kids' teachers to speak and write PERFECT English.

They should have done this 25 years ago.

---------- Post added 04-30-2010 at 04:27 PM ----------

Bones--the article you posted has nothing to do with bilingual education, and I think you really don't understand bilingual education at all.

If a 6-year-old comes here, he or she doesn't need it. They absorb English quickly. High School students are different, so they can pass the important subjects, and not be stigmatized by their English deficiencies.

But you miss the main point:

The students in question are by and large illegal, with parents who don't pay any taxes.[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added 04-30-2010 at 04:29 PM ----------

Last edited by Ira; 04-30-2010 at 04:29 PM.
04-30-2010, 05:22 PM   #3
graphicgr8s
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
What's the point of this post?

I really don't think it's radical or horrible to expect my kids' teachers to speak and write PERFECT English.

They should have done this 25 years ago.

---------- Post added 04-30-2010 at 04:27 PM ----------

Bones--the article you posted has nothing to do with bilingual education, and I think you really don't understand bilingual education at all.
So we finally agree on something. Please don't let it happen again.

Back in the early 1900's when you had an influx of Italians and others I ure don't remember reading about ESOL classes. So were those folks just smarter? Why do I have to press 1 for English? Why are spanish people so "special"? Why do we have to bend over like this? And not even get a smoke after?
05-02-2010, 09:56 PM   #4
Veteran Member
Jasvox's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,107
Perhaps when a law is passed which makes English the official language of the country, until then, there is NO official language of the United States.

Regardless of what your views are about requiring EVERYONE to speak fluent English to live in the United States, what is your interest or reservation about learning a second language yourself? 25+ years ago when I was coming into high school, we not only had a choice of whether to take Spanish or French (I took both because they were easy and because it was interesting), it became a required subject one MUST have at least 2 years of a foreign language in order to receive the high school diploma. After high school, I went on to study Business and my first job out of university was made easier with having a background in Spanish. Years later I find myself living in a foreign country and because of my line of work, I know have an exposure to 5-6 languages on a regular basis, resulting in fluency of 3 additional languages. What am I getting at? You can wrap yourself up in the flag and scold those for not learning YOUR language, but have you yourself stopped and thought of the benefits of learning a second language in order to have an advantage? Perhaps as well you might find a pinch of common ground with people who don't speak YOUR language fluently. You can live by the stereotypes that you only need to learn Spanish if you are a supervisor in a chicken processing plant, a foreman on a construction site or similar, or you may just find that your knowledge may help YOU get ahead in your own career or just at life without being so xenophobic at the drop of a sombrero. Those of you who can trace your heritage back to a non-English speaking country who may have come to the USA to find a better life, did they come with a fluency of the language? Did they learn it along the way once there? Were they often ridiculed by others for not knowing the language for day one? Did they tend to stay within a tight community with those who spoke their language? Just because you were raised in an English speaking home doesn't make you a chosen one. Have some compassion and understanding and remember what your Grandfathers and Grandmothers may have went through when they immigrated.


Jason

05-02-2010, 10:19 PM   #5
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dallas / Yucatan
Posts: 1,842
QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
The students in question are by and large illegal, with parents who don't pay any taxes.
Really? Are you sure? Nearly all school districts are supported by property taxes. Everyone who lives here pays property tax, even renters (hint: it's part of the rent).

The other main funding mechanism for many states is sales tax. Again, everyone who shops for clothing, auto parts, household items, whatever, pays sales tax.

Some states have an income tax. I don't believe Florida has a personal income tax, but does have a corporate income tax. So, that's not applicable there. Arizona does have a state income tax.

Still, most school funding comes from property taxes at the local level. And everyone living in each county pays that.
05-03-2010, 06:31 AM   #6
Veteran Member
GeneV's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque NM
Photos: Albums
Posts: 9,830
QuoteOriginally posted by yucatanPentax Quote
Really? Are you sure? Nearly all school districts are supported by property taxes. Everyone who lives here pays property tax, even renters (hint: it's part of the rent).

The other main funding mechanism for many states is sales tax. Again, everyone who shops for clothing, auto parts, household items, whatever, pays sales tax.

Some states have an income tax. I don't believe Florida has a personal income tax, but does have a corporate income tax. So, that's not applicable there. Arizona does have a state income tax.

Still, most school funding comes from property taxes at the local level. And everyone living in each county pays that.
I represent a lot of owners of rental property, and you are spot on with property taxes as part of rent. It is also a huge factor in the value of rental property.

Arizona does have an income tax, though, but in most states the income tax is not the primary funding mechanism for schools.
05-03-2010, 07:21 AM   #7
graphicgr8s
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
Perhaps when a law is passed which makes English the official language of the country, until then, there is NO official language of the United States.




Jason
Well English is the official language of Florida. Lot of good that does. They still print crap bilingually.

05-03-2010, 08:01 AM   #8
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 7,451
Original Poster
The horror...

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IzDbNFDdP4[/yt]
05-03-2010, 09:49 AM   #9
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ste-Anne des Plaines, Qc., Canada
Posts: 2,013
QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
What's the point of this post?

I really don't think it's radical or horrible to expect my kids' teachers to speak and write PERFECT English.

If you want your kids to speak and write PERFECT English, you should hire British teachers to do it. The English spoken in America IS NOT perfect.
05-03-2010, 10:04 AM   #10
Veteran Member
seacapt's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: North Carolina , USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,271
QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
If you want your kids to speak and write PERFECT English, you should hire British teachers to do it. The English spoken in America IS NOT perfect.
Actually the American English dialect and accent considered to be the most correct comes from the mid-west.
Sorry but teaching "Spanglish " is unacceptable anywhere.
BTW I'm all for bilingual fluency but bilingual implies 2 distinct languages not a mixing of two.
05-03-2010, 10:23 AM   #11
Senior Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Parallax's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: South Dakota
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 19,333
QuoteOriginally posted by flyer Quote
.............. The English spoken in America IS NOT perfect.
Some would even argue that in many parts of the country not only is it not perfect, it isn't even English.
05-03-2010, 10:29 AM   #12
graphicgr8s
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
Actually the American English dialect and accent considered to be the most correct comes from the mid-west.
Sorry but teaching "Spanglish " is unacceptable anywhere.
BTW I'm all for bilingual fluency but bilingual implies 2 distinct languages not a mixing of two.
Yeah back in HS I took Italian.

Can't they teach Ebonics?
05-03-2010, 01:21 PM   #13
Veteran Member
cardinal43's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,412
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
Well English is the official language of Florida. Lot of good that does. They still print crap bilingually.
Is this a state law or a graphic's wannabe law?
05-03-2010, 03:08 PM   #14
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 7,451
Original Poster
From a Phoenix-based teacher on another board I read:

QuoteQuote:
And ya it's pretty messed up here. Students classified as English Language Learners are placed in self-contained classes (even in upper grades), and legally teachers cannot speak to students in Spanish. It makes sense for English instruction, but these students also (are supposed to) learn math, science and history in these classes, but if they can't understand English, they're not going to understand any other instruction. In effect, Arizona is saying students shouldn't learn any other subject except English, so by the time a student masters English, he or she could be years behind in every other subject.
05-03-2010, 03:17 PM   #15
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North of Canada
Posts: 612
QuoteQuote:
In effect, Arizona is saying students shouldn't learn any other subject except English, so by the time a student masters English, he or she could be years behind in every other subject.
When one considers that the English language is a fairly mainstream language worldwide, and that ESL classes are incredibly easy to find is it not, therefore, the responsibility of the parents to ensure that their offspring have every opportunity to succeed before they arrive or, at least, after they are here by making sure they learn the predominant language of the country they are/have emigrated to? If the parent chooses to be ignorant about their children's education then why should the adopted country be held responsible?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
arizona, classes, education, english, ms, school, students, teachers

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hello from Arizona mntmike67 Welcomes and Introductions 5 04-22-2010 09:49 AM
Hello from Arizona! Akiou Welcomes and Introductions 3 11-07-2009 08:27 PM
Hello from Arizona Agesconde Welcomes and Introductions 5 06-04-2009 12:37 PM
Hello from Arizona... wkrider Welcomes and Introductions 1 04-23-2008 01:43 PM
Hello from Arizona! Amped Welcomes and Introductions 1 03-02-2008 11:27 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:55 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top