Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-23-2012, 05:50 AM   #136
Veteran Member
tclausen's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,399
QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
in this category it's almost mandatory. I agree a similar thing would be good in a K-02 (and a Q2 for that matter or even the entry k300 dslr that may be headed our way)
That depends.

The only use I see for a swingable screen would be for specialist things such as macro work (or eye-height photos of cats). Granted, I do - personally - a lot of macro, and for that I use the 90 degree angle viewfinder extensively. I suppose that a swingable screen would serve the purpose well.

Alas, a swingable screen introduces complexity, bulk, and extra stuff that can break, etc. I'd be very reluctant to sacrifice the compact size of the Q, even sacrificing 1-2mm, for adding the additional point of failure that is a swingable screen.

I'm really on the fence wrt swingable screens. Granted, I've never had a camera with one, so perhaps I do not know that of which I speak, but my gut feeling is that it's a "gimmick", at best?

08-23-2012, 06:03 AM   #137
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,166
QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
That depends.

The only use I see for a swingable screen would be for specialist things such as macro work (or eye-height photos of cats). Granted, I do - personally - a lot of macro, and for that I use the 90 degree angle viewfinder extensively. I suppose that a swingable screen would serve the purpose well.

Alas, a swingable screen introduces complexity, bulk, and extra stuff that can break, etc. I'd be very reluctant to sacrifice the compact size of the Q, even sacrificing 1-2mm, for adding the additional point of failure that is a swingable screen.

I'm really on the fence wrt swingable screens. Granted, I've never had a camera with one, so perhaps I do not know that of which I speak, but my gut feeling is that it's a "gimmick", at best?
I generally agree. It is just another potential repair. and they do break based on my retail experience, they are hardly a new feature I sold Canon P&S with them close to a decade ago. Perhaps in the intervening years they have become more reliable. personally I doubt it.
Thing is they seem to be something people want based on the demand here. the omd one apparently is pretty good, but personally i see these as more of an entry level camera thing to appeal to the P&S crowd who will shoot using the LCD
08-23-2012, 09:01 AM - 1 Like   #138
Pentaxian
philbaum's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA
Posts: 3,659
QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
That depends.

The only use I see for a swingable screen would be for specialist things such as macro work (or eye-height photos of cats). Granted, I do - personally - a lot of macro, and for that I use the 90 degree angle viewfinder extensively. I suppose that a swingable screen would serve the purpose well.
I politely disagree. There's a lot of boring pictures out there, and one thing they often have in common is that they are taken at standing eye level. The fact that you have a right angle VF sort of undermines your point

It isn't just macros that need a tilt-able VF, but flower shots, pet shots that you have mentioned, to get shots over the crowd in front of one, to get shots at floor level - very dramatic, etc. Everytime i've gone to take pictures of the spring commercial tulip festival in Skagit county, with my K10/K20, i would lower the camera to flower level or below, set the focus ahead of time or rely on auto, and just take a mess of pictures, hoping one would turn out. Yes, i could lay on my belly in sometimes muddy fields, but i decline to do that and drag mud back into the car.

The other big reason to have a tilt-able LCD screen is for the video makers, i think. When you make a video, you want to be looking above the camera at whatever is happening in the area and plan your next field of view, i think - not a lot of experience myself at that. Sure, the liveview feature helps a lot in low level or high level picture taking, but it is not as good as a tilt-able screen.

I am so fed up with the conservatism of Pentax, that i won't hesitate to change brands for my next camera, if i don't see some changes. Look at the bold designs coming out of Sony, Fuji and the 4/3'rds crowd. What Pentax substitutes for bold functionality is to put a designer sig on the K01 body. You could put 20 designer sigs on the K01 and i'd still prefer the tilt screen. (thank you for listening to my rant - been wanting to say that for the longest time )

Yes, i can imagine there is a possibility for breakage. Ok, so design it to break away, not damage the body, and be easily replaced with an available kit (and a plug in cable) for x number of dollars.

When one sees a tilt design like the Sony Nex, its like a breathing fresh air - wonderful!!! I'm sure there are dozens of enthusiastic engineers at Pentax wanting to design something like that, if older management would climb down off their tower and talk to customers to see what they want. Failing that, just read Pentax forums, where there's been lots of requests for tiltable screens. Yes, i like my K5 and even my sdm zooms, but please Pentax, get your head out of the sand. (Be Interesting - )
12-03-2012, 01:50 AM   #139
Banned




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,683
Almost ready to bet on this one.

Given what Pentax has seen with how the sales of the K-01 have taken off with the new price reduction. I'll bet we haven't seen the end of Pentax mirrorless. Chances are that Pentax will be looking to build a newer version of the K-01 mirrorless and (hopefully an all manual type version - a digital version of the K1000) and will price it at about six hundred from the start. I'd almost expect this camera to arrive in about thirteen months from now.

Also if Pentax "elects not to go through with this design idea" - that other companies still will.


Ironically my predictions about mirrorless have hit the spot right on to this point. I've predicted exactly what the K-01 would do, both of the Q series, and models from other companies such as both the Canon and Nikon models. It's also a bit surprising that a new version of a mirrorless has not yet arrived from Sigma; as in the past they have done everything but admit in writting that they are working on one to work with their SA lens mount

12-03-2012, 01:56 PM   #140
Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 472
I believe you're right. Since I've gotten my K-01, I've gotten way more attention than I'm use to.

First question: What kind of camera is it? It could be the color. The white does stand out.
Second question: Is it waterproof.
Third question: Pentax?! Wow, old school.

I find it interesting that I get the 2nd question about 50% of the time after the 1st.
The interest level is very high.
12-03-2012, 11:18 PM   #141
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
I'm really on the fence wrt swingable screens. Granted, I've never had a camera with one, so perhaps I do not know that of which I speak, but my gut feeling is that it's a "gimmick", at best?
It's actually very useful in certain scenarios. I don't like carrying tripods, so I took around an ultrapod recently - the tilting LCD screen made it much easier to frame scenes with the camera mounted on that. And the tilting mechanism is pretty robust too - I don't see how it could break.

Sample image where I used the tilting feature:



The Q may be different though - the camera is designed to be small and a tilting screen will add more bulk - disproportionately more given that the camera and the screen are small to begin with. So just because tilting LCD screens are useful in general doesn't mean that the Q needs to gain one.
12-04-2012, 06:42 AM   #142
JPT
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,186
I also think that the K-01's technology will end up in future K-mount cameras. I imagine that mirrorless/EVF technology will become preferable to DSLR sooner rather than later at the low end of the market and gradually work its way up to make the mirror totally redundant. I honestly think the K-01 could have been a success from the beginning, but it was released at the most sensitive time in the merger, when nobody wanted to risk money on marketing something so unusual.

However, I'm almost certain they will release something that competes better with the large sensor mirrorless cameras that are becoming so popular in Japan. They can't afford not to. Both Pentax and Ricoh are known for finding gaps in the market and the big one is full frame mirrorless. It makes sense to me. If they enter the APS-C mirrorless market, they'll have trouble differentiating themselves form the rest of the crowd. If they release a FF DSLR, the segment is arguably quite limited and already saturated (ask Sony). A FF mirrorless would really grab enthusiasts' attention. The camera's closest competitor would be the Fuji X series.

They also have the GXR. It's main problem has been the slow pace at which Ricoh has put out the modules. They could commit more resources to it and make it a success. It's still the mirrorless camera that I like best in terms of ergonomics. The interesting thing about the GXR is that it doesn't conflict with any other mirrorless mount they might release. They could just make a new mount module and you'd have a very nice camera.

Whatever happens, I guess that CP+ at the end of January will be the place to watch.
12-04-2012, 06:47 AM   #143
D0n
Banned




Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 530
the k-01 is an incredible camera.. but a few tweaks here and there and a gen 2 versoin without the designer name will be a hit.

12-04-2012, 11:53 AM   #144
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Both Pentax and Ricoh are known for finding gaps in the market and the big one is full frame mirrorless. It makes sense to me.
This is the best case scenario for Ricoh - that they figured this simple fact out and are working on filling this niche. But even if they figured this out, there are still many ways in which they can botch the execution of the plan, just like Pentax did with the K-01.
12-07-2012, 11:39 AM   #145
Pentaxian
philbaum's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA
Posts: 3,659
I got tired of debating whether mirrorless should be mirrorless, and whether tiltable screens are a gimmick, whether there was going to be a successor to the K01, so just went off and bought the Nex 5n with kit lens for $475. So now i'm an official two systems camera owner.

a. Focus peaking is wonderful and i always carry a Pentax M series 100mm prime with me for use with the Nex.
b. The Sony LCD screens are quite good but there seems to be an issue with them going downhill without protection - so i'm installing a protector on mine. But on sunny days, i just crank up the brightness and its good enough., Don't want to carry more accessories so probably won't get the VF accessory.
c. Sony has a firmware feature in their alpha lineup that stacks 6 shots to reduce noise artifacts and blur. But the version of this firmware (called anti-blur motion and handheld twilight scene in the NEX, won't let one control parameters like the ver in their DSLRs. Still works pretty well most of the time.
d. Sony's tilt screen seems plenty secure and is no gimmick. I love it. Its funny, but i don't see any posts on dpreviews Nex forum asking Sony to not manufacture tiltable screens anymore

Pentax clearly has the edge on firmware menu operability features and on lenses (Sony as yet has no native f2.8 or even constant aperture f4 zoom lenses). And of course Nex is not WR. So i continue to need and use both camera systems for the different shooting i do.

Its nice to no longer be dependent on a single manufacturer, i've got both Pentax and Sony working for me

PS It would be cool to see Pentax build a mirrorless FF sensor camera for their system, WR of course - its got my vote.

Last edited by philbaum; 12-07-2012 at 11:46 AM.
12-07-2012, 07:38 PM   #146
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
(Sony as yet has no native f2.8 or even constant aperture f4 zoom lenses).
This is a general weakness of mirrorless systems. MFT has a couple of f/2.8 zooms and at least an f/4 one, but the focus has generally been on prime lenses, presumably because the market segment was interested in compact combos. But I expect that to change for all mirrorless systems in time.
12-11-2012, 07:24 PM   #147
Forum Member
sifun's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Photos: Albums
Posts: 58
so tempted to get the k-01... Judging from what we've all seen lately, i'm guessing its just a one off-
its a pity because it could've become something very good.
12-12-2012, 11:12 AM   #148
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,994
QuoteOriginally posted by sifun Quote
so tempted to get the k-01... Judging from what we've all seen lately, i'm guessing its just a one off-
its a pity because it could've become something very good.
No, it already is something very good. I was a K-01 denier. I just hated the look of it with a passion. But the price drop and first-hand use accounts (and samples) got me to try it. Still not crazy about the look, but I'm pretty smitten with the camera.

My wife had a similar experience. When I first showed it to her, she didn't like it one bit. Too toy-like, no OVF. Then we took it to a wedding and she used it a little and saw the results. She's pretty amped about it now.

The focus-peaking has caused me to decide that I want this feature on all cameras from now on. Which means that I will not be buying a K-5IIs, which I was previously planning to do. I will be waiting on the next, all-new DSLR body, which is sure to have it (don't want a K-30).
12-13-2012, 10:14 AM - 1 Like   #149
Pentaxian
philbaum's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA
Posts: 3,659
QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
This is a general weakness of mirrorless systems. MFT has a couple of f/2.8 zooms and at least an f/4 one, but the focus has generally been on prime lenses, presumably because the market segment was interested in compact combos. But I expect that to change for all mirrorless systems in time.
Agreed. Fuji seems to have a better lens plan than Sony.

QuoteOriginally posted by sifun Quote
so tempted to get the k-01... Judging from what we've all seen lately, i'm guessing its just a one off-
its a pity because it could've become something very good.
I think with very little effort, Pentax could make a huge success out of the K01 line, if they chose to continue it. (i think eventually they will change their mind and extend the K01.)

QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
No, it already is something very good. I was a K-01 denier. I just hated the look of it with a passion. But the price drop and first-hand use accounts (and samples) got me to try it. Still not crazy about the look, but I'm pretty smitten with the camera.

My wife had a similar experience. When I first showed it to her, she didn't like it one bit. Too toy-like, no OVF. Then we took it to a wedding and she used it a little and saw the results. She's pretty amped about it now.

The focus-peaking has caused me to decide that I want this feature on all cameras from now on. Which means that I will not be buying a K-5IIs, which I was previously planning to do. I will be waiting on the next, all-new DSLR body, which is sure to have it (don't want a K-30).
After buying and currently using a Nex 5n and K5, i'll tell you what i think is very good about the K01. Its size and shape - the very things that some people don't like . The stronger box shape and stronger (larger) k-mount will allow use of larger lenses on the K01 than its competitors - should the Pentax owners wish. It also allows the K01 to sit on a table or on a tripod with less support. My Nex 5n looks very fragile in comparison and some Nex owners have discouraged me from hanging very long lenses off it - so isn't just my opinion. Also there are Nex owners who want a FF Nex. Probably isn't going to happen because of technical problems (i'm not an expert on this however) with a FF and the smaller e-mount. But obviously, Pentax could make a FF K01 mirrorless and have good lenses to support its use.

Another big K01 advantage is the native lens diversity(especially fast zooms) available. Another advantage is the Pentax menu system - Sony's Nex system is bad and they seem only to be able to make half-hearted attempts to improve it. Doesn't compete with the (Pentax or) Sony Alpha dslr menu systems according to reports. So all mfr seems to have their problems and blind spots.

Agree totally on the focus peaking -- like you, i don't think i'll ever buy another camera without it. Without carrying DOF tables, one can usually see right on the screen what the DOF is - its a game changer - but of course doesn't work when there isn't any sig. contrast.

I like my K5 a lot, and enjoy using its dslr capabilities for more demanding theater work i do, but i also enjoy my Nex 5n mirrorless for casual walk around stuff - and don't miss the lack of a VF at all in that situation. Different courses-different horses.

Canon, Nikon, Pentax and even Sony all seem (to different degrees) afraid of undercutting their larger DSLR sales. Fuji and MFT have the significant advantage of being able to go all out because there is no larger dslr to worry about sales effects. As consumers, we should all be cheering on the diversity of competitors, because it gets us cheaper better cameras.
12-13-2012, 06:53 PM   #150
Banned




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,683
QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Agreed. Fuji seems to have a better lens plan than Sony
But where are the lens' for Fuji?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
digital camera, feature, line, mirrorless, strategy, technology
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax on mirrorless: 'we never rule anything out' Art Vandelay II Pentax News and Rumors 21 01-11-2011 05:29 PM
Question about Pentax Mirrorless Winder Photographic Technique 5 11-19-2010 03:32 PM
Ned Bunnel interview at Photokina - K-5, K-r, Pentax strategy etc rawr Pentax News and Rumors 50 10-13-2010 06:15 PM
Looking at the current lens lineup, ISO seems to be Pentax strategy. Reportage Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 21 10-05-2010 02:28 PM
Pentax strategy danielausparis Pentax DSLR Discussion 30 05-01-2010 05:51 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:04 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top