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05-23-2012, 04:49 PM   #16
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The problem is that latest Pentax lineup was all over the place.

Q and K-01 are two cameras that are different by the sake of being different. They don't offer anything unique. K-r was just a way to keep milking K-x's success as an entry-level body. K-5 was the only solid offering, but then they skipped the beat with quality control, and soon afterwards increased lenses prices... suddenly a body that had a great bang-for-buck ratio doesn't look so appealing anymore.

The K-30 is really nice in the sense it's offering something actually unique: a great sensor, WR and pro-features in a $ 900 body. No one gets even close. The problem is that it's only a good deal with the 18-55 WR kit, there aren't many other WR lenses and DA* are too premium priced. Not mention that it's big and the DSLR form factor is trending downwards, everybody is aiming at rangefinder-sized bodies or smaller.

I have high hopes that Ricoh will release a K-mount module for the GXR, hopefully FF, and expand it's availability in the market, I find it a great concept. I would buy it in a whim to use with classic K lenses. If that doesn't happen, I'll probably sell my Pentax gear and get something more compact, because as nice as the new releases might be, I won't buy bulkier bodies than the K-x neither expensive plastic DA lenses, and I fear this is the trend on the market now. DSLRs will be limited for pro's only, and compacts with nice hybrid viewfinders / EVFs for hobbists.

05-24-2012, 01:07 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Are you talking about the V1 or J1? The J1 looks more like a point and shoot version.

What I find interesting is that Nikon has gotten some of the same criticism for putting this system on something smaller than micro 4/3.
IMO, Panasonic and Olympus practically defined the MILC configuration with their micro 4/3 models, Sony added the Nex model line to the mix, and Fuji also got into the act, especially with their latest Pro1.

But Nikon, Canon and Pentax just didn't want to play the game. Sure, they were willing to build mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, but only with smaller sensors than m4/3, certainly not aps. Pentax with their Q, Nikon with the v1/j1, and Canon with whatever their's was called. But thats not what the camera buying public had in their perceptions, especially after seeing the success of the m4/3. I don't think it was a lack of advertising that was at fault, the public had developed a taste for larger sensors than what was available in PS, and Pentax/Nikon/Canon were only willing to satisfy that thirst with entry level SLRs, not MILC.

Belatedly, Pentax built the K01 and Nikon and Canon have not responded yet, but rumour has it that they will. Frankly, IMO, all 3 of these companies deserved to be burned by this market trend for having so misread the situation. Instead of coming out with the Q first, it was far more important for Pentax to come out with something like the K01 much earlier. It looks like the Q is sinking fast with the price down to sub $300; but K01 may well survive if they can improve it.
05-24-2012, 01:46 AM   #18
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I don't understand why Pentax didn't go m4/3 myself, imagine how much more money Pentax could make on lenses!
Also many of the limited Pentax primes are already a good size although the registration distance is vastly different so development may be harder that it looks. The beauty of m4/3s though is there are already a large amount of lenses so customers don't have to worry about lens development so much.

As far as the Pentax Q, I still think it is a promising little camera, its just marketed the wrong way- should be lumped in against the X10/LX5 rather than m4/3 cameras.
Price was too high but hopefully at the lower price and perhaps a v2 model it will find a better spot in the market.
05-24-2012, 04:51 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Are you talking about the V1 or J1? The J1 looks more like a point and shoot version.

What I find interesting is that Nikon has gotten some of the same criticism for putting this system on something smaller than micro 4/3.
The CX sensor size is about half that of m43::



But....I think the Nikon strategy is to have the V/J series be pocketable (at least the J with a prime). No m43 is and may never be.

Pentax's Q tries the same approach but the sensor is too small for a premium compact. All that excellent design and the IQ is not there and the price way too high.

The Nikon V/J's price is too high also.

05-24-2012, 12:37 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Belatedly, Pentax built the K01 and Nikon and Canon have not responded yet, but rumour has it that they will
Leica X2 Digital Compact Camera With Elmarit 24mm f/2.8 18450

Here's a two thousand dollar Leica version with a sensor that isn't all that much different from the Pentax K-01. The Leica does not have any type of image stabilization available. I'd also still take the net that we'll see at least four more mirrorless cameras from other camera companies well within the next nine months.

I'd also have no problem placing a lot of chips on the table that the Pentax K-01 will not be the last mirrorless camera of it's type from Pentax. Chances are we'll all see a K-02 someday;perhaps a year or two down the road.

Last edited by Medium FormatPro; 05-25-2012 at 09:56 AM.
05-24-2012, 03:02 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
But....I think the Nikon strategy is to have the V/J series be pocketable (at least the J with a prime). No m43 is and may never be.
M43 cameras are not meant to be pocketable, just more portable.

I don't think Nikon meant their system to be pocketable either, or they would sell a kit with a prime lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Pentax's Q tries the same approach but the sensor is too small for a premium compact. All that excellent design and the IQ is not there and the price way too high.
But it is as pocketable as it gets. And if they would issue a monochrome sensor version, small sensor size wouldn't matter much anymore. I still think the Q was an interesting idea, but it was priced too high.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The Nikon V/J's price is too high also.
Hey, Ashton Kutcher doesn't work for free.
05-24-2012, 03:03 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
I'd also have no problem placing a lot of chis on the table that the Pentax K-01 will not be the last mirrorless camera of it's type from Pentax.
A pessimist, eh?
06-06-2012, 08:48 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
It looks like the Q is sinking fast with the price down to sub $300
Where have you seen this? Still appears to be a little under $500 where I've looked.

06-06-2012, 09:35 AM   #24
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Sorry Andrew - that post was 2 weeks ago and I probably saw it a few days before that. i can't remember where i saw it. I don't normally pay attention to Q prices but that one surprised me. Amazon has it currently at $469. It must have been a scam or something.

Last edited by philbaum; 06-06-2012 at 09:46 AM.
06-06-2012, 09:36 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I
Belatedly, Pentax built the K01 and Nikon and Canon have not responded yet, but rumour has it that they will. Frankly, IMO, all 3 of these companies deserved to be burned by this market trend for having so misread the situation. Instead of coming out with the Q first, it was far more important for Pentax to come out with something like the K01 much earlier. It looks like the Q is sinking fast with the price down to sub $300; but K01 may well survive if they can improve it.
Q seems to be doing OK. you have to realise it was not designed for the North American market but the Asian one. It seems to have done quite well there.
Price has dropped but that is no surprise, but $500 (where did you ever see $300 aside from a QVC cock up)

There are new Q lenses on the roadmap likely for September release at photokina, and i would be a Q2 is pending as well. Doesn't sound like a sinking system to me.

The K-01 made some sense as well. I think it needs to find it's market. Some places it has done well others less so. there are lenses on the horizon for this camera as well. I doubt it will ever be a major player but it will find it's niche, like the gxr has. Ricoh is good at exploiting niche markets in cameras.

Joining m4/3 (if they were even interested) would be a disaster i think. start selling lenses in m4/3 and there is no tie to the brand. no reason for people to buy Pentax cameras, and if they do no reason to buy Pentax lenses.
DSLR is still the large driving force in cameras and continues to grow year over year. MILC is just a new market, partially replacing upper end P&S, partially drawing customers who would not buy into DSLR. Pentax' major strength is DSLR and it hasn't come close to being fully exploited so I think their major efforts need to be there. canikon will respond to MILC but I don't think they are worried they have good growth patterns in DSLR
06-06-2012, 10:01 AM   #26
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I hope to see the 645-d upgraded with a newer sensor... and hope that that sensor is video capable... and that it finds it's way into a meduim format sized, k-01 inspired interchanable lens mount "Mother of all Evil Cams" camera that can swap out mount adaptors for everything from 35mm to 645 to 6x7 lenses.... the perfect studio/wedding cam at a much lower price point than the 645-d...

then let Ricoh make or licence out the adaptor specs so they or third party manufacturers can make adaptors for every other lens mount...

sort of a 4/3's/grx on steroids medium format evil cam...

Last edited by D0n; 06-06-2012 at 10:06 AM.
06-06-2012, 10:38 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Joining m4/3 (if they were even interested) would be a disaster i think. start selling lenses in m4/3 and there is no tie to the brand. no reason for people to buy Pentax cameras, and if they do no reason to buy Pentax lenses.
Pentax can make bodies with great ergonomics and they can make nice lenses. People would appreciate that even with all the competition in the MFT ecosystem. As they are now, Cosina has abandoned their mount to focus on MFT - how is that promising for Pentax?
06-06-2012, 10:50 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Pentax can make bodies with great ergonomics and they can make nice lenses. People would appreciate that even with all the competition in the MFT ecosystem. As they are now, Cosina has abandoned their mount to focus on MFT - how is that promising for Pentax?
I'm sure cosina's decision one way or the other does not factor into their thinking. Pentax wants to sell you Pentax lenses not cosina or zeiss. If they recapture share and develop more market presence I'm pretty certain Cosina and Zeiss (and others ) will release again in K mount. K mount is why Ricoh bought the brand. It is where the primary focus on growing the brand will (and should) be. Diluting the brand by adding another mount and becoming a m4/3 me too model hardly achieves hat. m4/3 are out there if they float your boat use them. It's like asking Pentax to make a retro RF style camera (as many wished in the past) why would they, they were never an RF company and in fact were almost single handedly responsible for the demise of the RF to a niche product.
The major focus needs to be on bodies and lenses for the K mount for at least the next 2-3 years, becoming part of the m4/3 consortium would have watered down that focus big time
The first goal needs to be getting back to the market share numbers that say alpha mount has (which would require doubling current numbers)
06-07-2012, 12:15 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I'm sure cosina's decision one way or the other does not factor into their thinking.
I was not claiming that Cosina's decision factored in any Pentax thinking; I was just pointing out that Pentax's K mount market share must have factored in Cosina's thinking when they decided to drop it.

As for the K-mount making a comeback to relevance, it is possible, although rather improbable.
06-07-2012, 05:15 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I was not claiming that Cosina's decision factored in any Pentax thinking; I was just pointing out that Pentax's K mount market share must have factored in Cosina's thinking when they decided to drop it.

As for the K-mount making a comeback to relevance, it is possible, although rather improbable.
It doesn't need to rival Canon and Nikon just bring it's levels up. Ricohs target apparently is to triple the numbers in the next year. Very aggressive. a couple of years like that and it would be in the interest of third parties to support the mount. It's one of those things that we just have to wait and see how it plays out. So far I think they have made pretty good progress, but the real measure won't happen until the fall
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