Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-07-2012, 05:44 AM   #31
Banned




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,683
QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
The K-01 made some sense as well. I think it needs to find it's market

I have some brief discussions and also some drawn out ones with people that own various non-slr cameras. They are starting too (perhaps a bit too late) see the advantages of the Pentax system. As more and mirrorless cameras come out they'll also compare them with the K-01. Sure there will be some with optical versions of viewfinders or even evf's. But I still expect that Pentax has more plans for both the existing K-01 and also some refinements in it.

Also, I cannot publish official links just yet, but Olympus was in fact getting ready for a mirrorless that would have had a lot of the features of the K-01 at a considerably higher price, but... No more - maybe Panasonic will go with it someday

06-07-2012, 06:03 AM   #32
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,270
QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
I have some brief discussions and also some drawn out ones with people that own various non-slr cameras. They are starting too (perhaps a bit too late) see the advantages of the Pentax system. As more and mirrorless cameras come out they'll also compare them with the K-01. Sure there will be some with optical versions of viewfinders or even evf's. But I still expect that Pentax has more plans for both the existing K-01 and also some refinements in it.

Also, I cannot publish official links just yet, but Olympus was in fact getting ready for a mirrorless that would have had a lot of the features of the K-01 at a considerably higher price, but... No more - maybe Panasonic will go with it someday
I would be very surprised if the K-01 line didn't ultimately end up as a 3 camera line - but they need to deal with the DSLR line shortcomings first. the DSLR is still by far the dominant ILC market, and it is still growing at a good clip. Still i could see the second camera in the line arriving by January, second Q in september
06-07-2012, 09:30 AM   #33
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
It doesn't need to rival Canon and Nikon just bring it's levels up. Ricohs target apparently is to triple the numbers in the next year. Very aggressive. a couple of years like that and it would be in the interest of third parties to support the mount. It's one of those things that we just have to wait and see how it plays out. So far I think they have made pretty good progress, but the real measure won't happen until the fall
To clarify, I should add that I have doubts about the future of most SLR mounts, not just the K mount. The other mounts just have more inertia behind them, which may allow them to fall some time later after the K, but I don't see any of them too well long term. It's going to be interesting to watch, that is certain.
06-07-2012, 11:00 AM   #34
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,270
QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
To clarify, I should add that I have doubts about the future of most SLR mounts, not just the K mount. The other mounts just have more inertia behind them, which may allow them to fall some time later after the K, but I don't see any of them too well long term. It's going to be interesting to watch, that is certain.
I know this is the way you feel. I personally think you are wrong at least in the mid term (10 years)
Certainly Milc and EVF will grow at the entry level, but there are huge advantage to the traditional DSLR. EVF has a long way to go to replace the OVF IMO (and in the opinion of many others) I don't see any sports guy making the switch any time soon, or anyone who works regularly in low light. It may suit your uses but you are imprinting your experience on where you think the market is going to go. the market is much bigger and this is just diversification of the market. Both categories are in growth mode, Milcs growth looks more substantial because it is starting from a much lower level.
If Oly goes down the MILC market will take a big hit. Depends on who buys them what will happen with the camera division. Right now it's like the Hoya takeover except the company is in more dire straight than pentax was

06-07-2012, 12:14 PM   #35
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Certainly Milc and EVF will grow at the entry level, but there are huge advantage to the traditional DSLR. EVF has a long way to go to replace the OVF IMO (and in the opinion of many others) I don't see any sports guy making the switch any time soon, or anyone who works regularly in low light. It may suit your uses but you are imprinting your experience on where you think the market is going to go. the market is much bigger and this is just diversification of the market.
My impression is simply that the shortcomings of EVFs and the advantages of OVFs are blown out of proportion. The majority of the market won't mind the change, the same way they didn't mind it when it happened for P&S cameras. There is this myth that an OVF enables you to do something extra, but it is never clearly defined what that extra is. Athletes are not faster than the refresh rate of an EVF and OVFs don't have night vision to make it any easier to shoot in the dark. If anything, I have an above average dependency on a capable viewfinder as I manually focus. It's not that I base an opinion *just* on my experience, I base it on my experience *and* on past history *and* on how I see others using their cameras.

Speaking of market diversification, did SLRs do that for rangefinders? Or digital for film? This is another technological step forward (mechanical devices being replaced by electronical ones) and there will be blood. It may look like market diversification because this is the beginning. And people will continue arguing the superiority of SLRs and OVFs long after they stop being relevant, like they did for film - that will definitely take more than a decade to cool off.
06-07-2012, 12:21 PM   #36
D0n
Banned




Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 530
QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
My impression is simply that the shortcomings of EVFs and the advantages of OVFs are blown out of proportion. The majority of the market won't mind the change, the same way they didn't mind it when it happened for P&S cameras. There is this myth that an OVF enables you to do something extra, but it is never clearly defined what that extra is. Athletes are not faster than the refresh rate of an EVF and OVFs don't have night vision to make it any easier to shoot in the dark. If anything, I have an above average dependency on a capable viewfinder as I manually focus. It's not that I base an opinion *just* on my experience, I base it on my experience *and* on past history *and* on how I see others using their cameras.

Speaking of market diversification, did SLRs do that for rangefinders? Or digital for film? This is another technological step forward (mechanical devices being replaced by electronical ones) and there will be blood. It may look like market diversification because this is the beginning. And people will continue arguing the superiority of SLRs and OVFs long after they stop being relevant, like they did for film - that will definitely take more than a decade to cool off.
good point.. we had this debate over pentaprisms and penta mirrors, rangefinders and optical viewers.... yet when the viewfinders kept getting darker and smaller in our slrs (not to mention cluttered up with blinking lights like a christmas tree) over the years..nobody stopped buying cameras....
so the whole debate is moot really... maybe a pentraprism/efv hybrid comes along to help people adjust, maybe evf's just take over.... but eventually.... that big chunk of glass and all the hardware to support it, are just another place to cut costs when the technology to replace it is less expensive and to be honest... better...
06-19-2012, 06:42 PM   #37
Veteran Member
ManuH's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,209
After having used the GH2 EVF I have to say that the day of OVF are counted. It's just a matter of time but the technology is already there. Even for tracking I was surprised how well it fares, not as good as an OVF but very usable. MF is easier, particularly with fast lenses (OVF have issues with faster than f/2.8 unless you use special screens which have their own set of problems). The GH2 is bad at tracking AF but Nikon has implemented PD-AF on sensor which fix this weakness of mirrorless cameras. IMHO we're very close to the day where the EVF will be superior in almost every way including being cheaper to produce.

A K-02 with an EVF (placed on the left like the Nex-7 please!) and PD-AF on sensor would be a killer mirrorless. I would buy one without hesitation. Ah yes I forgot the articulated LCD is also a must. And while we're at it, why not make it WR?
06-20-2012, 04:33 AM   #38
Banned




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,683
QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
If Oly goes down the MILC market will take a big hit

A bit of insider here... The Olympus consumer camera "division" has cut their orders significantly and also expects to cut them in entirity within about then next two months

06-20-2012, 06:37 PM   #39
Pentaxian
philbaum's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA
Posts: 3,659
QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
A bit of insider here... The Olympus consumer camera "division" has cut their orders significantly and also expects to cut them in entirity within about then next two months
There a very odd situation that is developing. If Olympus is out of the picture (i say IF), then that leaves only Panasonic, Sony and Pentax to carry the MILC flag. (Certainly Nikon and Canon have no enthusiasm for marketing their own MILC since they would tend to undercut their own DLSRs if sensor size were the same in both types)

Out of those flag carriers, Pentax is arguably in the best financial shape, perhaps, since both Pana. and Sony lost money last year.

I think Pentax is in a position to grab market share in MILC cameras, but will they? To do that,
they need to issue a K01 successor within the next 12 months:
a. it needs an EVF i think.
b. It needs a tiltable LCD
c. not sure about WR
d. It needs video specs like the K30
e. It needs a hotshoe but not an in body flash
f. Some reduced weight is in order.
g. Its ability to be used on a tripod should not be compromised, like it needs a shutter cable port. And it would be cool
to have a tripod port on the left and another one of the bottom of the case, like the 645D
06-20-2012, 07:28 PM   #40
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,921
QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
A bit of insider here... The Olympus consumer camera "division" has cut their orders significantly and also expects to cut them in entirity within about then next two months
All I know is OMD and Oly cameras are flying off the shelves here in Singapore and perhaps Malaysia.
06-20-2012, 07:32 PM   #41
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: North
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,921
QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
My impression is simply that the shortcomings of EVFs and the advantages of OVFs are blown out of proportion. The majority of the market won't mind the change, the same way they didn't mind it when it happened for P&S cameras. There is this myth that an OVF enables you to do something extra, but it is never clearly defined what that extra is. Athletes are not faster than the refresh rate of an EVF and OVFs don't have night vision to make it any easier to shoot in the dark. If anything, I have an above average dependency on a capable viewfinder as I manually focus. It's not that I base an opinion *just* on my experience, I base it on my experience *and* on past history *and* on how I see others using their cameras.

Speaking of market diversification, did SLRs do that for rangefinders? Or digital for film? This is another technological step forward (mechanical devices being replaced by electronical ones) and there will be blood. It may look like market diversification because this is the beginning. And people will continue arguing the superiority of SLRs and OVFs long after they stop being relevant, like they did for film - that will definitely take more than a decade to cool off.
Totally agree that the shortcomings of EVFs are blown out of proportion. Most ppl will get by with them, and they do offer some advantages over OVFs.

The point about athletes, I thought they more more than 1/300s and IIRC the best EVF has a refresh rate of 120fps? Or are they not comparable in the same way?
07-04-2012, 04:52 AM   #42
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 443
QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
After having used the GH2 EVF I have to say that the day of OVF are counted. It's just a matter of time but the technology is already there. Even for tracking I was surprised how well it fares, not as good as an OVF but very usable. MF is easier, particularly with fast lenses (OVF have issues with faster than f/2.8 unless you use special screens which have their own set of problems). The GH2 is bad at tracking AF but Nikon has implemented PD-AF on sensor which fix this weakness of mirrorless cameras. IMHO we're very close to the day where the EVF will be superior in almost every way including being cheaper to produce.

A K-02 with an EVF (placed on the left like the Nex-7 please!) and PD-AF on sensor would be a killer mirrorless. I would buy one without hesitation. Ah yes I forgot the articulated LCD is also a must. And while we're at it, why not make it WR?
Yes, I would buy such a camera. It also need a few WR pancake lenses that use the space where the mirror would be at.

I do now have an Olympus E-M5 for a second system and it is a fun little camera.

Dave
07-08-2012, 04:56 PM   #43
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
The point about athletes, I thought they more more than 1/300s and IIRC the best EVF has a refresh rate of 120fps? Or are they not comparable in the same way?
I think the bottleneck in these scenarios is the brain's processing capacity and reaction time, not the EVF's refresh rate.
07-08-2012, 05:35 PM   #44
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
(Certainly Nikon and Canon have no enthusiasm for marketing their own MILC since they would tend to undercut their own DLSRs if sensor size were the same in both types)
I expect Nikon sold more 1 systems with their Ashton Kutcher campaign than Pentax did K-01. And there are several rumors suggesting that Canon may release their own system before the end of this year.
07-08-2012, 05:50 PM   #45
Banned




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,683
QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
suggesting that Canon may release their own system before the end of this year
If not by the end of the year; definately within the next eleven months
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
digital camera, feature, line, mirrorless, strategy, technology
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax on mirrorless: 'we never rule anything out' Art Vandelay II Pentax News and Rumors 21 01-11-2011 05:29 PM
Question about Pentax Mirrorless Winder Photographic Technique 5 11-19-2010 03:32 PM
Ned Bunnel interview at Photokina - K-5, K-r, Pentax strategy etc rawr Pentax News and Rumors 50 10-13-2010 06:15 PM
Looking at the current lens lineup, ISO seems to be Pentax strategy. Reportage Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 21 10-05-2010 02:28 PM
Pentax strategy danielausparis Pentax DSLR Discussion 30 05-01-2010 05:51 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:59 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top