[Medium FormatPro]

The K-01 made some sense as well. I think it needs to find it's market

I have some brief discussions and also some drawn out ones with people that own various non-slr cameras. They are starting too (perhaps a bit too late) see the advantages of the Pentax system. As more and mirrorless cameras come out they'll also compare them with the K-01. Sure there will be some with optical versions of viewfinders or even evf's. But I still expect that Pentax has more plans for both the existing K-01 and also some refinements in it.

Also, I cannot publish official links just yet, but Olympus was in fact getting ready for a mirrorless that would have had a lot of the features of the K-01 at a considerably higher price, but... No more - maybe Panasonic will go with it someday

[eddie1960]

I have some brief discussions and also some drawn out ones with people that own various non-slr cameras. They are starting too (perhaps a bit too late) see the advantages of the Pentax system. As more and mirrorless cameras come out they'll also compare them with the K-01. Sure there will be some with optical versions of viewfinders or even evf's. But I still expect that Pentax has more plans for both the existing K-01 and also some refinements in it.

Also, I cannot publish official links just yet, but Olympus was in fact getting ready for a mirrorless that would have had a lot of the features of the K-01 at a considerably higher price, but... No more - maybe Panasonic will go with it someday

I would be very surprised if the K-01 line didn't ultimately end up as a 3 camera line - but they need to deal with the DSLR line shortcomings first. the DSLR is still by far the dominant ILC market, and it is still growing at a good clip. Still i could see the second camera in the line arriving by January, second Q in september

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

It doesn't need to rival Canon and Nikon just bring it's levels up. Ricohs target apparently is to triple the numbers in the next year. Very aggressive. a couple of years like that and it would be in the interest of third parties to support the mount. It's one of those things that we just have to wait and see how it plays out. So far I think they have made pretty good progress, but the real measure won't happen until the fall

To clarify, I should add that I have doubts about the future of most SLR mounts, not just the K mount. The other mounts just have more inertia behind them, which may allow them to fall some time later after the K, but I don't see any of them too well long term. It's going to be interesting to watch, that is certain.

[eddie1960]

To clarify, I should add that I have doubts about the future of most SLR mounts, not just the K mount. The other mounts just have more inertia behind them, which may allow them to fall some time later after the K, but I don't see any of them too well long term. It's going to be interesting to watch, that is certain.

I know this is the way you feel. I personally think you are wrong at least in the mid term (10 years)
Certainly Milc and EVF will grow at the entry level, but there are huge advantage to the traditional DSLR. EVF has a long way to go to replace the OVF IMO (and in the opinion of many others) I don't see any sports guy making the switch any time soon, or anyone who works regularly in low light. It may suit your uses but you are imprinting your experience on where you think the market is going to go. the market is much bigger and this is just diversification of the market. Both categories are in growth mode, Milcs growth looks more substantial because it is starting from a much lower level.
If Oly goes down the MILC market will take a big hit. Depends on who buys them what will happen with the camera division. Right now it's like the Hoya takeover except the company is in more dire straight than pentax was

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

Certainly Milc and EVF will grow at the entry level, but there are huge advantage to the traditional DSLR. EVF has a long way to go to replace the OVF IMO (and in the opinion of many others) I don't see any sports guy making the switch any time soon, or anyone who works regularly in low light. It may suit your uses but you are imprinting your experience on where you think the market is going to go. the market is much bigger and this is just diversification of the market.

My impression is simply that the shortcomings of EVFs and the advantages of OVFs are blown out of proportion. The majority of the market won't mind the change, the same way they didn't mind it when it happened for P&S cameras. There is this myth that an OVF enables you to do something extra, but it is never clearly defined what that extra is. Athletes are not faster than the refresh rate of an EVF and OVFs don't have night vision to make it any easier to shoot in the dark. If anything, I have an above average dependency on a capable viewfinder as I manually focus. It's not that I base an opinion *just* on my experience, I base it on my experience *and* on past history *and* on how I see others using their cameras.

Speaking of market diversification, did SLRs do that for rangefinders? Or digital for film? This is another technological step forward (mechanical devices being replaced by electronical ones) and there will be blood. It may look like market diversification because this is the beginning. And people will continue arguing the superiority of SLRs and OVFs long after they stop being relevant, like they did for film - that will definitely take more than a decade to cool off.

[D0n]

My impression is simply that the shortcomings of EVFs and the advantages of OVFs are blown out of proportion. The majority of the market won't mind the change, the same way they didn't mind it when it happened for P&S cameras. There is this myth that an OVF enables you to do something extra, but it is never clearly defined what that extra is. Athletes are not faster than the refresh rate of an EVF and OVFs don't have night vision to make it any easier to shoot in the dark. If anything, I have an above average dependency on a capable viewfinder as I manually focus. It's not that I base an opinion *just* on my experience, I base it on my experience *and* on past history *and* on how I see others using their cameras.

Speaking of market diversification, did SLRs do that for rangefinders? Or digital for film? This is another technological step forward (mechanical devices being replaced by electronical ones) and there will be blood. It may look like market diversification because this is the beginning. And people will continue arguing the superiority of SLRs and OVFs long after they stop being relevant, like they did for film - that will definitely take more than a decade to cool off.

good point.. we had this debate over pentaprisms and penta mirrors, rangefinders and optical viewers.... yet when the viewfinders kept getting darker and smaller in our slrs (not to mention cluttered up with blinking lights like a christmas tree) over the years..nobody stopped buying cameras....
so the whole debate is moot really... maybe a pentraprism/efv hybrid comes along to help people adjust, maybe evf's just take over.... but eventually.... that big chunk of glass and all the hardware to support it, are just another place to cut costs when the technology to replace it is less expensive and to be honest... better...

[ManuH]

After having used the GH2 EVF I have to say that the day of OVF are counted. It's just a matter of time but the technology is already there. Even for tracking I was surprised how well it fares, not as good as an OVF but very usable. MF is easier, particularly with fast lenses (OVF have issues with faster than f/2.8 unless you use special screens which have their own set of problems). The GH2 is bad at tracking AF but Nikon has implemented PD-AF on sensor which fix this weakness of mirrorless cameras. IMHO we're very close to the day where the EVF will be superior in almost every way including being cheaper to produce.

A K-02 with an EVF (placed on the left like the Nex-7 please!) and PD-AF on sensor would be a killer mirrorless. I would buy one without hesitation. Ah yes I forgot the articulated LCD is also a must. And while we're at it, why not make it WR?

[Medium FormatPro]

If Oly goes down the MILC market will take a big hit

A bit of insider here... The Olympus consumer camera "division" has cut their orders significantly and also expects to cut them in entirity within about then next two months

[philbaum]

A bit of insider here... The Olympus consumer camera "division" has cut their orders significantly and also expects to cut them in entirity within about then next two months

There a very odd situation that is developing. If Olympus is out of the picture (i say IF), then that leaves only Panasonic, Sony and Pentax to carry the MILC flag. (Certainly Nikon and Canon have no enthusiasm for marketing their own MILC since they would tend to undercut their own DLSRs if sensor size were the same in both types)

Out of those flag carriers, Pentax is arguably in the best financial shape, perhaps, since both Pana. and Sony lost money last year.

I think Pentax is in a position to grab market share in MILC cameras, but will they? To do that,
they need to issue a K01 successor within the next 12 months:
a. it needs an EVF i think.
b. It needs a tiltable LCD
c. not sure about WR
d. It needs video specs like the K30
e. It needs a hotshoe but not an in body flash
f. Some reduced weight is in order.
g. Its ability to be used on a tripod should not be compromised, like it needs a shutter cable port. And it would be cool
to have a tripod port on the left and another one of the bottom of the case, like the 645D

[pinholecam]

A bit of insider here... The Olympus consumer camera "division" has cut their orders significantly and also expects to cut them in entirity within about then next two months

All I know is OMD and Oly cameras are flying off the shelves here in Singapore and perhaps Malaysia.

[pinholecam]

My impression is simply that the shortcomings of EVFs and the advantages of OVFs are blown out of proportion. The majority of the market won't mind the change, the same way they didn't mind it when it happened for P&S cameras. There is this myth that an OVF enables you to do something extra, but it is never clearly defined what that extra is. Athletes are not faster than the refresh rate of an EVF and OVFs don't have night vision to make it any easier to shoot in the dark. If anything, I have an above average dependency on a capable viewfinder as I manually focus. It's not that I base an opinion *just* on my experience, I base it on my experience *and* on past history *and* on how I see others using their cameras.

Speaking of market diversification, did SLRs do that for rangefinders? Or digital for film? This is another technological step forward (mechanical devices being replaced by electronical ones) and there will be blood. It may look like market diversification because this is the beginning. And people will continue arguing the superiority of SLRs and OVFs long after they stop being relevant, like they did for film - that will definitely take more than a decade to cool off.

Totally agree that the shortcomings of EVFs are blown out of proportion. Most ppl will get by with them, and they do offer some advantages over OVFs.

The point about athletes, I thought they more more than 1/300s and IIRC the best EVF has a refresh rate of 120fps? Or are they not comparable in the same way?

[DaveBlack]

After having used the GH2 EVF I have to say that the day of OVF are counted. It's just a matter of time but the technology is already there. Even for tracking I was surprised how well it fares, not as good as an OVF but very usable. MF is easier, particularly with fast lenses (OVF have issues with faster than f/2.8 unless you use special screens which have their own set of problems). The GH2 is bad at tracking AF but Nikon has implemented PD-AF on sensor which fix this weakness of mirrorless cameras. IMHO we're very close to the day where the EVF will be superior in almost every way including being cheaper to produce.

A K-02 with an EVF (placed on the left like the Nex-7 please!) and PD-AF on sensor would be a killer mirrorless. I would buy one without hesitation. Ah yes I forgot the articulated LCD is also a must. And while we're at it, why not make it WR?

Yes, I would buy such a camera. It also need a few WR pancake lenses that use the space where the mirror would be at.

I do now have an Olympus E-M5 for a second system and it is a fun little camera.

Dave

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

The point about athletes, I thought they more more than 1/300s and IIRC the best EVF has a refresh rate of 120fps? Or are they not comparable in the same way?

I think the bottleneck in these scenarios is the brain's processing capacity and reaction time, not the EVF's refresh rate.

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

(Certainly Nikon and Canon have no enthusiasm for marketing their own MILC since they would tend to undercut their own DLSRs if sensor size were the same in both types)

I expect Nikon sold more 1 systems with their Ashton Kutcher campaign than Pentax did K-01. And there are several rumors suggesting that Canon may release their own system before the end of this year.

[Medium FormatPro]

suggesting that Canon may release their own system before the end of this year

If not by the end of the year; definately within the next eleven months